"The Invisible Hand" Discussion Thread

[spider-neil]

I didn't have a problem with tombstone kicking spidey butt, kingpin used to do that and he (kingpin) isn't even super powered.

making spidey stronger than all his villians is a sure way to kill any drama, suspense and tension its something the superman writers have failed to grasp for years.

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

Yes, powerful, as in able to bench 10 tons, basically the strength of 100 men.
Powerful, as in having a Spider-sense, which when used properly, could make him untouchable.
Powerful, as in having 16x the reflexes of a normal human being.
Powerful, as in his agility and wall crawling abilities.
Powerful, as in having webbing which is 5x the strength of steel.

These are the powers Spider-Man started off with, not to mention the ones he now has. If you don't think Spider-Man is a powerful hero, think again. Seeing what happened with Tombstone.....or Fancy Dan.....or Ox just doesn't make sense. There are plenty of ways to take Spider-Man down without watering down his powers just for that moment in time.

dude, again you're caught up in the spidermanhype. the same line of peeps that keep going 'hulk is the strongest one there is, you can't beat him'

yeah, great spidey can do all that crap but why even bother creating villains with any sort of super strength to go up against him IF they aren't at least physical matches or superiors?

besides, everyone knows without any true experience, a pile of powers doesn't amount to diddly squat against a professional.

Think about this. If spidey had reactions 16th time faster than any normal human as awell a a spider sense, they why has he found a character like ock to be such a menace in the past. Surely it wouldn't matter how many tentacles he had. Maybe (I dunno) they made ock more menacing in order to give spidey a better physical challenge? When was the last time you've complained about a spidey confrontation with ock?

 

[spider-neil]

dude, again you're caught up in the spidermanhype. the same line of peeps that keep going 'hulk is the strongest one there is, you can't beat him'

yeah, great spidey can do all that crap but why even bother creating villains with any sort of super strength to go up against him IF they aren't at least physical matches or superiors?

besides, everyone knows without any true experience, a pile of powers doesn't amount to diddly squat against a professional.

Think about this. If spidey had reactions 16th time faster than any normal human as awell a a spider sense, they why has he found a character like ock to be such a menace in the past. Surely it wouldn't matter how many tentacles he had. Maybe (I dunno) they made ock more menacing in order to give spidey a better physical challenge? When was the last time you've complained about a spidey confrontation with ock?

when you think about it x16 reflexes PLUS a spider sense, no one this side of THE FLASH should be able to lay a glove on him. yeah, that would make for 'great' story telling.

 

[terry78]

Seriously, his spider-sense gets powered up and down depending on the writer. Technically Venom is the only one that should be able to get the drop on him, because it should instantly say when someone is about to attack. Yet writers switch it up depending on the story.

 

[SLYspyder]

I didn't have a problem with tombstone kicking spidey butt, kingpin used to do that and he (kingpin) isn't even super powered.

making spidey stronger than all his villians is a sure way to kill any drama, suspense and tension its something the superman writers have failed to grasp for years.

I don't know about the Kingpin kicking Spider-Man's butt....that hasn't happened yet, but the way things are going, wouldn't be suprised if he did.

Where did I say Spider-Man should be stronger than all his villains? There are plenty of Spider-Man villains that are stronger than he is, and I'm fine with them whooping his ass.

And there are also plenty of villains that give Superman a run for his money, Doomsday, Darkseid, Parasite, Metallo, so forth.

dude, again you're caught up in the spidermanhype. the same line of peeps that keep going 'hulk is the strongest one there is, you can't beat him'

yeah, great spidey can do all that crap but why even bother creating villains with any sort of super strength to go up against him IF they aren't at least physical matches or superiors?

besides, everyone knows without any true experience, a pile of powers doesn't amount to diddly squat against a professional.

Think about this. If spidey had reactions 16th time faster than any normal human as awell a a spider sense, they why has he found a character like ock to be such a menace in the past. Surely it wouldn't matter how many tentacles he had. Maybe (I dunno) they made ock more menacing in order to give spidey a better physical challenge? When was the last time you've complained about a spidey confrontation with ock?

Doc Ock's tentacles are pretty damn fast, and when you have 4 pretty damn fast tentacles coming at you, you're a huge threat. And the only Ock confrontation I've ever had a problem with were the ones in Sm2, where Spider-Man was using Ock's face as a punching bag, and there was no explanation whatsoever how Ock could take all those punches.

when you think about it x16 reflexes PLUS a spider sense, no this side of THE FLASH should be able to lay a glove on him. yeah, that would make for 'great' story telling.

Of course the Flash would be able to hit him. The Flash is too fast for Spider-Man to react to his Spider-sense.

 

[spider-neil]

I don't know about the Kingpin kicking Spider-Man's butt....that hasn't happened yet, but the way things are going, wouldn't be suprised if he did.

Where did I say Spider-Man should be stronger than all his villains? There are plenty of Spider-Man villains that are stronger than he is, and I'm fine with them whooping his ass.

And there are also plenty of villains that give Superman a run for his money, Doomsday, Darkseid, Parasite, Metallo, so forth.



Doc Ock's tentacles are pretty damn fast, and when you have 4 pretty damn fast tentacles coming at you, you're a huge threat. And the only Ock confrontation I've ever had a problem with were the ones in Sm2, where Spider-Man was using Ock's face as a punching bag, and there was no explanation whatsoever how Ock could take all those punches.



Of course the Flash would be able to hit him. The Flash is too fast for Spider-Man to react to his Spider-sense.

I meant other than speedsters no one should be able to touch him.
it like that scene in the spider-man 1 where flash throws a punch at him and from pete's point of view its moving in slow motion.

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

Doc Ock's tentacles are pretty damn fast, and when you have 4 pretty damn fast tentacles coming at you, you're a huge threat. And the only Ock confrontation I've ever had a problem with were the ones in Sm2, where Spider-Man was using Ock's face as a punching bag, and there was no explanation whatsoever how Ock could take all those punches.

He's still a human with human reflexes. Technically speaking based on your description, he shouldn't be a problem to deal with. Yet he's made to be.

I agree with the spidey 2 thing but that's a given.

I'm just saying that spidey is generally described about being all these things because one can easily relate to things a spider can do. climb jump carry spin webs, 'sense danger'.

but then let's not get carried away. Give him a rogue's gallery that can still beat him. There's no point having villains that aren't threats either physically, or mentally.

There's no point having a villain with superstrength that can't at least go toe to toe with a hero

There's no point having a criminal mastermind that can't outsmart and capture the hero with some scheme.

A hero like spidey should always make it out of encounters based on improvising on his surroundings or just being lucky. Narrow escape man, having to carry his wounds into his normal life and acting none the wiser.


I suppose it's just a different taste in what we expect from our heroes. I prefer them beat up at every corner while you may prefer them to be dishing out the pain.

 

[The Lizard]

Though I don't expect Peter and MJ to become a couple right away.

I agree.

Peter just struck out with Betty and he hasn't even dated Gwen yet, so I hope that the serious Pete/MJ romance is kept on the back burner for a while yet.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I cut right to the chase. Thanks for posting that link!

Nice questions!

 

[Anwar]

I agree.

Peter just struck out with Betty and he hasn't even dated Gwen yet, so I hope that the serious Pete/MJ romance is kept on the back burner for a while yet.

That's how it was in the original comics too, he still ended up in a relationship with Gwen even after meeting MJ (in fact I think it was MJ's presence that prompted Gwen to get more serious over Peter).

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

That's how it was in the original comics too, he still ended up in a relationship with Gwen even after meeting MJ (in fact I think it was MJ's presence that prompted Gwen to get more serious over Peter).

Very true, and that's why I think Jealousy is a big thing with this. As I have said, I have a feeling Gwen is not going to like seeing peter with MJ.

 

[Venomfan]

He's still a human with human reflexes. Technically speaking based on your description, he shouldn't be a problem to deal with. Yet he's made to be.

I agree with the spidey 2 thing but that's a given.

I'm just saying that spidey is generally described about being all these things because one can easily relate to things a spider can do. climb jump carry spin webs, 'sense danger'.

but then let's not get carried away. Give him a rogue's gallery that can still beat him. There's no point having villains that aren't threats either physically, or mentally.

There's no point having a villain with superstrength that can't at least go toe to toe with a hero

There's no point having a criminal mastermind that can't outsmart and capture the hero with some scheme.

A hero like spidey should always make it out of encounters based on improvising on his surroundings or just being lucky. Narrow escape man, having to carry his wounds into his normal life and acting none the wiser.


I suppose it's just a different taste in what we expect from our heroes. I prefer them beat up at every corner while you may prefer them to be dishing out the pain.

i don't think you get what he's saying. the problem is that they have characters that are way less powerful than Spider-man (like Kingpin, enforcers) showing that they are actually stronger than him, without even having any powers. It's not a problem when someone like Scorpion, Venom, Rhino do that because they are stronger than him. We're just asking that they think up better ways for using the weaker villains than making them look stronger than Spidey

 

[terry78]

Kingpin is huge, and nothing but muscle, yet he's still human. I often wondered how he was able to cause damage to Spider-Man when he clearly was just a man, whereas Spidey can lift tons and what not. Ultimate Spider-Man had that in spades. One punch from Spider-Man should at least render Fisk unconscious.

 

[Anwar]

Very true, and that's why I think Jealousy is a big thing with this. As I have said, I have a feeling Gwen is not going to like seeing peter with Gwen.

I don't know, I think Gwen would like seeing Peter with Gwen t:.

Also, it'll probably prompt her to drop the Debra Whitman look and go for something more appealing (which will probably make Eddie angrier that Gwen's doing all this for Peter despite everything Peter's done to her).

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I don't know, I think Gwen would like seeing Peter with Gwen t:.

Also, it'll probably prompt her to drop the Debra Whitman look and go for something more appealing (which will probably make Eddie angrier that Gwen's doing all this for Peter despite everything Peter's done to her).

LOl!!! Sorry about that. t:

 

[Webhead2006]

Man i hope seeing peter with mj will make gwen be more get going and ask peter out, hopefully they will date for a bit before peter and mj are a full item.

 

[Gotham]

Man i hope seeing peter with mj will make gwen be more get going and ask peter out, hopefully they will date for a bit before peter and mj are a full item.

If Gwen and Peter do end up together, it'll be even more interesting to how the Peter and MJ relationship comes about.

 

[Webhead2006]

yea hopefully they do have peter and gwen date for a little bit since they are fans of the classic stuff and having gwen around with this show i would like to see their relationship played out for a little while.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

yea hopefully they do have peter and gwen date for a little bit since they are fans of the classic stuff and having gwen around with this show i would like to see their relationship played out for a little while.

AGreed, and even though I'd love it either way, I think they will still have peter go with Gwen.

 

[Webhead2006]

yea atless date gwen for a little while then go for a full peter mj relationship a bit later.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

yea atless date gwen for a little while then go for a full peter mj relationship a bit later.

Yeah, also, do you think it will be like it was in the comics how Peter and Gwen dated eachother for a long time and the green Goblin killed her and then he moves onto MJ a little later? I think it might be a bit different.

 

[Webhead2006]

hopefully but with their accelrated storyline and inclusion of college age characters things could be different but i would like to see peter date qwen for a little bit before he gets serious with mj.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

hopefully but with their accelrated storyline and inclusion of college age characters things could be different but i would like to see peter date qwen for a little bit before he gets serious with mj.

Yeah, and remeber, the college years are going to bracnh off into the Direct to DVD's.

 

[Webhead2006]

if they are lucky to do that which i hope they do.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

if they are lucky to do that which i hope they do.

They most likely will.