The Iran Thread

[Paradoxium]

No pragmatically it has more real resources compared to say where Israel is right now. Brazil could use the money as well. More importantly it's far away from all their opponents. It's not worth putting their children and grand children through all this. The most immediate thing to do is evacuating a number of the population to North America.

 

[Hobgoblin]

No pragmatically it has more real resources compared to say where Israel is right now. Brazil could use the money as well. More importantly it's far away from all their opponents. It's not worth putting their children and grand children through all this. The most immediate thing to do is evacuating a number of the population to North America.

But what are the odds of people leaving Israel after it has finally become theirs again after nearly 2000 years? Being pragmatic would be nice but if people thought that way, we wouldnt be in this situation.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Canada has plenty of space.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Canada has plenty of space.

Wouldnt they rather be nuked?

I kid, I kid.

 

[Paradoxium]

There is no point in living in this "holy land" if a chunk of the population is nuked to hell and radiation makes it inhabitable.

A number of these fanatics worship death, you cannot contend with an enemy like that in that type of proximity. Too irrational and unpredictable.

 

[Hobgoblin]

There is no point in living in this "holy land" if a chunk of the population is nuked to hell and radiation makes it inhabitable.

A number of these fanatics worship death, you cannot contend with an enemy like that in that type of proximity. Too irrational and unpredictable.

See, thats out perspective. I think many (not all, certainly) Israelis would fight to the bitter end to stay in the Middle East. Just look at the settlers in the West Bank who fight the soldiers to stay in the illegal settlements.

 

[Arc-Light]

I agree on the dumb 70s intervention.

In particular, I think they are crazy enough to "try". This is why I think an attack on Israel (our lifetime) is inevitable.

I don't agree they would lose to much if they tried.....hmmm i take that back they would lose everything if they tried....

 

[Paradoxium]

Lose what? You assume they want to live. You assume they want compromise. This is not like Germany or Russia decades ago.

I think if they nuke/fight Israel, and Israel becomes threadbare, Israel should do something radical, unpredictable and insane. One that will really knock a point through REALLY hard. This is going to sound crazy (11 out of a 10 scale):

Spoiler

Nuke Damascus and Mecca - the holiest in the Muslim world. It would be a gigantic kick to the crotch, even the "I-don't-mind-death" martyrs will feel it.Piss on the Muslims so much that they Muslim want to eradicate their radicals on their own.

 

[The Overlord]

There is no point in living in this "holy land" if a chunk of the population is nuked to hell and radiation makes it inhabitable.

A number of these fanatics worship death, you cannot contend with an enemy like that in that type of proximity. Too irrational and unpredictable.

But hey these religious fanatics have more "scruples" then those evil progressives.

 

[Paradoxium]

They do have more scruples, just that they happen to worship death.

 

[Arc-Light]

Lose what? You assume they want to live. You assume they want compromise. This is not like Germany or Russia decades ago.

I think if they nuke/fight Israel, and Israel becomes threadbare, Israel should do something radical, unpredictable and insane. One that will really knock a point through REALLY hard. This is going to sound crazy (11 out of a 10 scale):

Spoiler

Nuke Damascus and Mecca - the holiest in the Muslim world. It would be a gigantic kick to the crotch, even the "I-don't-mind-death" martyrs will feel it.Piss on the Muslims so much that they Muslim want to eradicate their radicals on their own.

These are a people in power, they don't want to lose it. Of course they want to live they don't want to lose that control.....these people aren't the same suicide bombers/martyrs as the others....they will get others to do the dirty work....but they aren't stupid they know even that will come back and bite them in the ass.

 

[The Overlord]

They do have more scruples, just that they happen to worship death.

And clearly having "scruples" is more of an important concern then whether someone is in a death cult or not. Clearly a mean old Progressives like Martin Luther King are no moral match for the current President of Iran.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Thats one possibility. But again, this is a religious issue as well as a geopolitical one. Israel is a holy site in Judaism and Islam, northern Brazil is not. Heck, some Israelis even claim that Israel is meant to extend to the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.

EDIT: I just remembered something that Dubya said last year. I cant believe I'm saying this...but he was right in saying that in order to prevent WW3, we need to prevent Iran from getting the bomb. Things could get out of control quickly if Israel is nuked. If we nuke Iran, how do Russia and China respond to the loss of an important business partner? What about the rest of the Middle East? Yes, many nations (like the Saudis) are intimidated by Iran but many terrorist groups are allied to the Ayatollah.


The best way to prevent a larger war is to smother the flames before they can explode (pardon the melodrama.) But how can you do that when one side is bound and determined to stay the course? Can we keep bombing the nuke sites as the Iranians rebuild them? How long can that go on?

If Iran preemptively nuked Israel, China and Russia would accept the loss of Iran. Support for nations that constantly antagonize the world community like Iran can only go so far.

Already you have Russia hanging Iran out to dry. Iran has already given Russia billions of dollars for nuclear technology and even if they're destroyed by Israel, Russia has that money and has no reason to just give it back. You also had the issue of the missile defense shield and with Obama cancelling the program and Russia suddenly turning in favor of tougher sanctions if Iran doesn't comply is pretty convenient. Russia used Iran to get the United States to drop something Russia was heavily opposed to.

As for China, you have China going throughout Africa, Venezuela, and Southeast Asia for new sources of oil.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Lose what? You assume they want to live. You assume they want compromise. This is not like Germany or Russia decades ago.

I think if they nuke/fight Israel, and Israel becomes threadbare, Israel should do something radical, unpredictable and insane. One that will really knock a point through REALLY hard. This is going to sound crazy (11 out of a 10 scale):

Spoiler

Nuke Damascus and Mecca - the holiest in the Muslim world. It would be a gigantic kick to the crotch, even the "I-don't-mind-death" martyrs will feel it.Piss on the Muslims so much that they Muslim want to eradicate their radicals on their own.

Medina is holier than Damascus and Mecca is a part of Saudi Arabia. A nation that would be willing to recognize Israel if Israel ends their settlements in the West Bank. Why nuke the most powerful, and a rational one to boot, Islamic power?

 

[bell110]

I think if Israel attacks Iran, we should attack Israel. Seriously, we need to get out of Israel's ass.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I think if Israel attacks Iran, we should attack Israel. Seriously, we need to get out of Israel's ass.

 

[Kurosawa]

If Iran preemptively nuked Israel, China and Russia would accept the loss of Iran. Support for nations that constantly antagonize the world community like Iran can only go so far.

Already you have Russia hanging Iran out to dry. Iran has already given Russia billions of dollars for nuclear technology and even if they're destroyed by Israel, Russia has that money and has no reason to just give it back. You also had the issue of the missile defense shield and with Obama cancelling the program and Russia suddenly turning in favor of tougher sanctions if Iran doesn't comply is pretty convenient. Russia used Iran to get the United States to drop something Russia was heavily opposed to.

As for China, you have China going throughout Africa, Venezuela, and Southeast Asia for new sources of oil.

There's no place for Iran as it currently is in a civilized world. Best case scenario I guess would be for a new revolution and a sane regime takes over.

 

[Kurosawa]

I think if Israel attacks Iran, we should attack Israel. Seriously, we need to get out of Israel's ass.

Israel is the only country in that part of the world that ISN'T bat-**** crazy.

 

[BlackestNight]

Israel is the only country in that part of the world that ISN'T bat-**** crazy.

I wouldn't say that. The Fundies in Israel are just as crazy as the Muslim Fundies. Israel pretty much has its own version of manifest destiny. They want all the land back promised to them in the bible/torah and wither you like it or not those uber religions Fundies do have a lot of influence in the Israeli government’s policies.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Israel is the only country in that part of the world that ISN'T bat-**** crazy.

Most countries in the Middle East are at least rational (most of the countries in the Arabian Peninsula, Egypt, Jordan, Turkey). The ones that need to be watched are Lebanon (Hezbollah and the Christian/Shia/Sunni split), Syria, Iraq (in case if a nut job takes power in a very fragile country), Iran, and Yemen (on the verge of falling apart).

 

[hippie_hunter]

I wouldn't say that. The Fundies in Israel are just as crazy as the Muslim Fundies. Israel pretty much has its own version of manifest destiny. They want all the land back promised to them in the bible/torah and wither you like it or not those uber religions Fundies do have a lot of influence in the Israeli government’s policies.

The fundies in Israel really don't have as much influence as the Islamic fundies. And the goals of the Jewish fundamentalists like Greater Israel are completely unobtainable.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

It is such a dangerous situation and really the only thing would be if the government of Iran was changed into something more accomodating. The current government is at the center of many conflicts and they as individuals are unlikely to have much love for the country. They have already siphonned off over a $150 billion collectively in personaly accounts. And they would probably jump ship if they felt truly in danger. These people came from the peasant class and are in many cases uneducated. Ahmandinejad does not have even a true University degree, only a fabricated one. Do not expect them to act as intelligent rational people.

I however hold no hope for a change from within in the short to medium term and there not many solutions from the outside. It will get bloody before it gets better and I just hope thjat it does not end up going nuclear for all of us.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

I didn't say anything about Iran attacking US Soil.

I apologise if I inferred that in error but as I was replying to your post I was also adding things relative to what was stated by others.

 

[Bunker]

Israel is the only country in that part of the world that ISN'T bat-**** crazy.

Yeah, because killing hundreds of civilians in matter of weeks and shutting off foreign aid to Palestine isn't "bat-**** crazy".

 

[bell110]

LOL.

Israel is the only country in that part of the world that ISN'T bat-**** crazy.

They live in a part of the world that they are not liked and not wanted, yet still insist on living there. They live there because they think God wants them to. If that isn't bat**** crazy I don't know what is.

Did you hear Netanyahu making those comments at the G20 summit. Who does that guy think he is?

Iran is in more danger of Israel attacking it than the other way around.