The Flash The Iris West/Candice Patton Thread - Part 1

[Avenging Angel]

Majority of negative Facebook and Instagram comments, overall low ratings including slumped demographics say otherwise.

 

[Primal Slayer]

The show isn't promoted around Iris, she doesn't get majority of the screen time. To say the ratings are down because of her is laughable. They are down for every single show, not to mention the storylines in general have become poor. 3 years of Speedsters as villains? Do you think the audience is interested in that?

 

[Avenging Angel]

Give me a fact-based list of things shown on screen that Iris has contributed to the show. Character development, what she has learned individually for herself, what she grew into. There may have been things potentially planned for her in the first few episodes of Season 1, but could you really say those things still exist in the character now? She and her relationship with Barry are the main reasons why people don't watch the show anymore. Being shoehorned in every so-called "position" the writers put her in, not earning anything of merit by trial and error the way strong characters are supposed to. How is this character bringing anything of worth? Give me facts not opinions.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Id ask for the same with facts that she drove ratings down and has taken over the show as the main character surpassing Barry but we'd just be at a standstill.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Give me a fact-based list of things shown on screen that Iris has contributed to the show. Character development, what she has learned individually for herself, what she grew into. There may have been things potentially planned for her in the first few episodes of Season 1, but could you really say those things still exist in the character now? She and her relationship with Barry are the main reasons why people don't watch the show anymore. Being shoehorned in every so-called "position" the writers put her in, not earning anything of merit by trial and error the way strong characters are supposed to. How is this character bringing anything of worth? Give me facts not opinions.

Dude, give it a rest, you aren't giving facts, the bolded bit is purely you, you are just giving your opinions on her, you have had this hatred of her since you got here and it's clearly a fact that it stems from your obssession with Danielle Panabaker, and the fact you are desperate for them to put Caitlin with Barry, your "ship" obsession sank your logic ages ago.

 

[Avenging Angel]

It isn't my issue you guys seem to have a problem with what's really going on here, why the show is so terrible. You cannot give me a list of scenes that depict why this character is so vital to the show's narrative because there isn't any. How exactly is the Westallen relationship adding anything to plots? The part you bolded is a pure fact, you guys just refuse to pay attention to what's really dragging this show.

Many people, like myself, want Barry with Caitlin or single as he is. I could careless about the romance. I wasn't the first detractor certainly not the last. There is a reason why she is the most hated. People constantly provide facts on why this character is one of the worst written. I'm actually obsessed with great writing, sorry to disappoint.

 

[I'm still here]

Dude, give it a rest, you aren't giving facts, the bolded bit is purely you, you are just giving your opinions on her, you have had this hatred of her since you got here and it's clearly a fact that it stems from your obssession with Danielle Panabaker, and the fact you are desperate for them to put Caitlin with Barry, your "ship" obsession sank your logic ages ago.

My thought exactly !

Many people, like myself, want Barry with Caitlin or single as he is. I could careless about the romance.

LMAO ! Who do you think you are fooling, here ? Snowbarry is all you care about.

 

[Hunter Rider]

It isn't my issue you guys seem to have a problem with what's really going on here, why the show is so terrible. You cannot give me a list of scenes that depict why this character is so vital to the show's narrative because there isn't any. How exactly is the Westallen relationship adding anything to plots? The part you bolded is a pure fact, you guys just refuse to pay attention to what's really dragging this show.

Many people, like myself, want Barry with Caitlin or single as he is. I could careless about the romance. I wasn't the first detractor certainly not the last. There is a reason why she is the most hated. People constantly provide facts on why this character is one of the worst written. I'm actually obsessed with great writing, sorry to disappoint.

Like I said, obssessed.

All you have done is list a bunch of stuff you think, nothing more. The ratings are down because last season was poor, and it was poor because Savitar was the 3rd evil Speedster villain in a row and was garbage to boot, so this season is struggling.

What Iris gives to the show is the same as the rest of the group of friends, it's about human relationships, not about who has a bunch of abilities or who can tick the "I saved the day" box, and right now what she gives the team is some street savvy, the rest of the group are so scientifically smart but often can't think outside of science based answers, Iris brings a human thought process to situations that helps the team, she also has a strong personality and you need that to lead, team's have specialists but leading is about your strength of personality, which Iris has.

 

[Avenging Angel]

Hardly, romance in the comics is a small part if you actually read them. They are the only one that makes sense writing, story and chemistry-wise if there is any romance in a science fiction/superhero show.

You still have not given me a scene(s) where she exhibits real qualities/skills/actions that help a situation that a lone extra on set could just be given in a single episode. Knowing how to google doesn't count.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I read comics dude, the romantic relationship of the lead character features heavily in most of the main ones, and this a TV show aimed at more than just nerds, that aspect is something you find in most mainstream shows, especially ones aimed at a largely teen audience.

I don't need to give you scenes because if you watch the show you've already seen them, and I explained why she is important but you ignored it, human relationships are what makes the show, and she is pivotal in several of these, you aren't a good character because you can spout some made up science guff that beats some guy in a leotard, which is what you seem to think, like Cisco isn't a great character because he helps beat the goon of the week with some gibberish dialogue about stuff that doesn't exist, he's important becuase of his relationships with Barry, Caitlin and Harry. You genuinely seem to have very little concept of what the show is about and are boiling it down to the action panels.

 

[C. Lee]

I'm glad I'm an old guy.....it helps me not get my knickers in a twist over a character on a TV show written as being in love with another character on the TV show. Shows are all about linking one character to another or keeping them apart or them being on and off. It happens in every single TV show where there is a man and a woman in it. If you are a teenager then it may upset your calm but to anyone else it's just part of life.

 

[Avenging Angel]

It should be aimed at everyone, like The Gifted. All ages can watch it and still find something cool about it. Flash could have been what Smallville was in its prime. It's because it's on the CW, unfortunate as the network is notorious for hiring writers that have no clue what they're doing. Except Legends for some reason, out of all the shows in the Arrowverse the show runners seem to have little to no problems writing a solid show.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Smallville and Legends of Tomorrow are the barometer of good? Smallville was one endless triangular shipping contest for starters, and LoT.......well everyone has a right to like what they like, I personally think that show is garbage, I only watch it for Sara's scenes and in case something from it plays into a crossover.

Most people have very little issue with romantic relationships, they are fairly relatable to every gender, race and age group on the planet, so these shows are aimed at everyone in general, except maybe those who only want such a relationship if the character they are obssessed with is the one in said relationsip.

 

[Primal Slayer]

 

[Hunter Rider]

I like it!

 

[igoogol]

That's the best coat-tail riding since Arrow's Felicity, and is certainly one way to steal the so-called "queen of Arrowverse" crown from the 'verse's 1st shoehorned love interest.

 

[Hunter Rider]

 

[igoogol]

Highly doubtful Fel-fans are crying, they're too busy telling everyone how awesome blah blah blah she is.

 

[Hunter Rider]

 

[C. Lee]

I think it means someone's heart was broken by a TV star.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I think it means someone's heart was broken by a TV star.

Either that or these icky girls better stop having such prominent roles in our boy shows.

 

[Avenging Angel]

That's the best coat-tail riding since Arrow's Felicity, and is certainly one way to steal the so-called "queen of Arrowverse" crown from the 'verse's 1st shoehorned love interest.

This is the best they can do.

 

[TheFuture]

Had no idea that Barry Caitlin ship was even a thing......I'm still shipping Patti Barry.

For my two cents if it's worth anything, I've nothing against Candice Patton, and she has honestly improved as the show has aged, but my problem is that there's just no chemistry between her and Gustin. The last episode was a perfect illustration of that, as it felt like I was watching two best friends or a brother and sister. The romantic element just isn't there, so when the show focuses so much on them it doesn't ring true.

 

[Eni]

I read comics dude, the romantic relationship of the lead character features heavily in most of the main ones, and this a TV show aimed at more than just nerds, that aspect is something you find in most mainstream shows, especially ones aimed at a largely teen audience.

I don't need to give you scenes because if you watch the show you've already seen them, and I explained why she is important but you ignored it, human relationships are what makes the show, and she is pivotal in several of these, you aren't a good character because you can spout some made up science guff that beats some guy in a leotard, which is what you seem to think, like Cisco isn't a great character because he helps beat the goon of the week with some gibberish dialogue about stuff that doesn't exist, he's important becuase of his relationships with Barry, Caitlin and Harry. You genuinely seem to have very little concept of what the show is about and are boiling it down to the action panels.

You are talking about the Barry and Iris 'Are they, aren't they?' nonsense that started with the New52? Yeah, since the start of that garbage the romance-drama is also a pretty strong point of the comics. You can see that they writers desperately want to be hip and you can't have an established relationship in any media apparently without introducing artificial friction.

That is one of the main reasons why so many people jumped the ship with the show - and they did, just compare the number of views from season and two to now. The Flash should be focused on Barry and him being the Flash, not some rom-com-drama about his relationship with Iris. Though, Iris is hardly the only problem there, all the other 'supporting' cast he has really drag the show down.

I don't like Iris on the show, simply because the writers use her as a mean to establish a strong female non-white character without putting any work in it. I do think Iris got a little better since season one, but that doesn't mean much seeing that she was pretty much garbage in that one.

Iris is not the main problem here, she is pretty much just one of the tools that enables the main problem to take form, which is bad writing. The writers don't know how to tell an interesting story or understand that the Flash has such a rich history that you don't need the ongoing romance-drama to tell an interesting story, or that the Flash should actually be about the Flash not all the extra weight the put on it.

 

[Hunter Rider]

You are talking about the Barry and Iris 'Are they, aren't they?' nonsense that started with the New52? Yeah, since the start of that garbage the romance-drama is also a pretty strong point of the comics. You can see that they writers desperately want to be hip and you can't have an established relationship in any media apparently without introducing artificial friction.

That is one of the main reasons why so many people jumped the ship with the show - and they did, just compare the number of views from season and two to now. The Flash should be focused on Barry and him being the Flash, not some rom-com-drama about his relationship with Iris. Though, Iris is hardly the only problem there, all the other 'supporting' cast he has really drag the show down.

I don't like Iris on the show, simply because the writers use her as a mean to establish a strong female non-white character without putting any work in it. I do think Iris got a little better since season one, but that doesn't mean much seeing that she was pretty much garbage in that one.

Iris is not the main problem here, she is pretty much just one of the tools that enables the main problem to take form, which is bad writing. The writers don't know how to tell an interesting story or understand that the Flash has such a rich history that you don't need the ongoing romance-drama to tell an interesting story, or that the Flash should actually be about the Flash not all the extra weight the put on it.

I wasn't talking about the New 52 specifically, I was talking about comic books in general over the entireity of their existence, not just something current in one heroes book.

As for the rest, you're entitled to your opinion, but that's all it is, the drop off in ratings I think is entirely down to the poor choice of villain in season 3, a third Speedster in a row was redundant and Savitar was by far the most boring of the 3 they have used.

You clearly want a boys own action adventure show that is about heroics and fighting bad guys rather than a more rounded drama that also features strong human relationships, I mean take Iris out of it for a moment and I'd say Cisco, Joe, Harry and Caitlin are all excellent characters with their own interesting arcs, the Barry/Joe relationship has been one of the highlights of the series IMO, but like I say it sounds like you just want all Flash all of the time, which is you're right, but still just an opinion.