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The Flash The Iris West/Candice Patton Thread - Part 1

the thing in the article about black people and barbecues and food.

Those aren't stereotypes, it's just the culture.

Having curly hair isn't indicative of blackness.

No one has said this. I'm just telling you that hair has a special significance within black culture.

It's like you're trying to convince me that black culture, my culture, isn't actually a thing. This is silly af.
 
Those aren't stereotypes, it's just the culture.

No one has said this. I'm just telling you that hair has a special significance within black culture.

It's like you're trying to convince me that black culture, my culture, isn't actually a thing. This is silly af.
how is it the culture when it's not something that matters specifically to that culture? Same with the hair. I think these things don't represent anything specific.
 
how is it the culture when it's not something that matters specifically to that culture? Same with the hair. I think these things don't represent anything specific.

You can think whatever you like. You’re still objectively wrong.
 
You can think whatever you like. You’re still objectively wrong.
if those things aren't necessarily representative of a culture, I think based on the idea that it's not indicative of that specific race, I think in that it not being something that only that one race has and/or does and I think may not have originated with that race, how can someone objectively be wrong about it, more than the opposing side is?
 
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if those things aren't necessarily representative of a culture, I think based on the idea that it's not indicative of that specific race, I think in that it not being something that only that one race has and/or does and I think may not have originated with that race, how can someone objectively be wrong about it, more than the opposing side is?

You seem to think a culture has to be this siloed thing. That it’s only a culture if the beliefs and practices are singular in their existence. That’s ridiculous. And it flies in the face of known phenomena like cultural exchange and acculturation. And also just basic history. That’s not how sociology works.

But I ain’t out here trying to explain the world to you though. Read a book.
 
You seem to think a culture has to be this siloed thing. That it’s only a culture if the beliefs and practices are singular in their existence. That’s ridiculous. And it flies in the face of known phenomena like cultural exchange and acculturation. And also just basic history. That’s not how sociology works.

But I ain’t out here trying to explain the world to you though. Read a book.
Google give two definitions in noun for culture.

  1. the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively.
    "20th century popular culture"

  2. the customs, arts, social institutions, and achievements of a particular nation, people, or other social group.
    "Caribbean culture"
I assume what you mean is second one. If none of these things, if this is the case, are achievements of that particular Nation, people, or other social group, how can those things be indicative of that culture? As far as I know, those things aren't necessarily popularized and/or only used by that culture.
 
Google give two definitions in noun for culture.

  1. the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively.
    "20th century popular culture"

  2. the customs, arts, social institutions, and achievements of a particular nation, people, or other social group.
    "Caribbean culture"
I assume what you mean is second one. If none of these things, if this is the case, are achievements of that particular Nation, people, or other social group, how can those things be indicative of that culture? As far as I know, those things aren't necessarily popularized and/or only used by that culture.

Notice how that definition doesn’t say anything about any customs needing to be specific to a particular group of people? Because that’s not how it works. While you’re googling, trying looking up cultural exchange and acculturation.

Regardless soul food IS specific to black people. It derived from black enslavement in the US. The topic of natural hair IS specific to black people, as our particular texture requires a different type of care and treatment. And it is a major part of our social exchanges. From barbershops and salons to people getting braided on front porches. It aids in community and is a form of communication in itself for us.

You’re out of your depth here. Stop trying to lecture a black person on his own identity.
 
Notice how that definition doesn’t say anything about any customs needing to be specific to a particular group of people? Because that’s not how it works. While you’re googling, trying looking up cultural exchange and acculturation.

Regardless soul food IS specific to black people. It derived from black enslavement in the US. The topic of natural hair IS specific to black people, as our particular texture requires a different type of care and treatment. And it is a major part of our social exchanges. From barbershops and salons to people getting braided on front porches. It aids in community and is a form of communication in itself for us.

You’re out of your depth here. Stop trying to lecture a black person on his own identity.
if it doesn't, then how can it be stated to be indicative of that culture?

Google says the foods brought up were used before black enslavement in the as far as I can tell, official US. Iris' hair being curly isn't unique or much different to a white person's hair.

I'm not talking about your identity. I'm sorry if that's how I come off.
 
if it doesn't, then how can it be stated to be indicative of that culture?

Google says the foods brought up were used before black enslavement in the as far as I can tell, official US. Iris' hair being curly isn't unique or much different to a white person's hair.

I'm not talking about your identity. I'm sorry if that's how I come off.

You are talking about my identity though. This is my cultural background that you are basically trying to say doesn't exist because you don't believe it to be unique enough.

You seem to think customs and traditions must be at a 1:1 ratio for each group of people in order for it to be cultural. That's ridiculous. Practices often shared or influenced by other cultures. Soul food was absolutely influenced by Native American cuisine for example. But its staples derive from the limited rations provided by white masters to black slaves.

Hell, rice alone is a major part of many ethnic cuisines, but it's preparations and significance vary between different groups of people. But try telling a Filipino or a Korean that rice isn't actually cultural to them. See how that goes.

And this isn't about whether or not white people can have curly hair. The politics of natural hair for black people is entirely different. That's the point, among many, that you're being insanely obtuse over because you've decided your hill to die on is one where you try to explain cultures you don't understand to people that are actually part of them.

Again, do some actual research.
 
if it doesn't, then how can it be stated to be indicative of that culture?

Google says the foods brought up were used before black enslavement in the as far as I can tell, official US. Iris' hair being curly isn't unique or much different to a white person's hair.

I'm not talking about your identity. I'm sorry if that's how I come off.

Again, see the complaints about not having hair dressers/make up artists that are familiar with African American's hair and make up.
 
You are talking about my identity though. This is my cultural background that you are basically trying to say doesn't exist because you don't believe it to be unique enough.

You seem to think customs and traditions must be at a 1:1 ratio for each group of people in order for it to be cultural. That's ridiculous. Practices often shared or influenced by other cultures. Soul food was absolutely influenced by Native American cuisine for example. But its staples derive from the limited rations provided by white masters to black slaves.

Hell, rice alone is a major part of many ethnic cuisines, but it's preparations and significance vary between different groups of people. But try telling a Filipino or a Korean that rice isn't actually cultural to them. See how that goes.

And this isn't about whether or not white people can have curly hair. The politics of natural hair for black people is entirely different. That's the point, among many, that you're being insanely obtuse over because you've decided your hill to die on is one where you try to explain cultures you don't understand to people that are actually part of them.

Again, do some actual research.
I don't think that someone's people's culture background has to equal their identity. I'm sorry for me causing you discomfort there.

I think that by it not being indicative of a specific culture that that can mean it doesn't have to directly equal being used as a cultural statement. I think saying something like what that article says isn't necessarily correct based on the show having something that may be suggested to have that specific connection for some while potentially also having a connection other things for others. I think that to suggest a black family in a show or otherwise in how they act, as if it's wrong for a black family to be written that way or look that way or having certain food that doesn't apply to that group, as viewed by some, and that to have that now is viewed as a deliberate attempt to the point I think this article suggests that and that's it's anymore letting the characters be black than the characters ever have, not correct, if it's only based on those suggestions.

Though I wasn't particularly thrilled at the idea being that the show is better than it's ever been or something for any reason. I don't think this season's had much of an interesting storyline or has done much interesting with the characters.
Again, see the complaints about not having hair dressers/make up artists that are familiar with African American's hair and make up.
Even if I agreed with the idea of an actor/actress having a complete say over their hairstyle in a work of fiction, I don't think that, to me it's them doing their job. I don't think the hair here has to equal a symbol of a specific culture, even if the reason why the actress had it was based on her getting to have her natural hair or something.
 
Again, its not so much about the look, but that they needed more specialized care to get that look.
 
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SIGH
All Candice did was retweet a meme joking about the double wedding and she's getting attacked by crazy Olicity shippers. They're ignoring the person who actually made the joke and going straight for Candice. Can they grow up?
 

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