Iron Man 3 The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 1

[cherokeesam]

? we have no proof what so ever.. that the US is putting together a "team" at all... Iron Patriot proves nothing, other than the fact that the US army wants their own armored poster boy to control

Who said anything about "proof?" We are *speculating* here in the News & Speculation thread, correct? This is my theory. Nothing more.

But in answer: if you've got War Machine *and* Iron Patriot, there's at least two battlesuits they've got. Would they stop with just two? Remember Firepower is rumored for the cast as well, and his comic book backstory would definitely fit into the "military-application battlesuit" category.

actually... Mandarin was pulling strings with Stane, and also in IronMan 2 with Hammer... the footage tony hacked in DC were all part of Mandarin's 10 rings, and the people who busted Vanko out of jail were all credited as members of the "10 rings"


it fits with what mandarin has been doing (or trying to since ironman 1 (Stane and Hammer)

I didn't know that about Hammer and Vanko. But yeah, anyho, Mandarin engineering an "armor wars" between the US and China hurts the hell out of Stark, too. Probably in more ways than Mandarin could ever have hoped for or achieved with either of the IM1 or IM2 plots.

but that's my point.. if Mandarin can cut him off, and Shield has no clue as to wear the Mandarin's wear-abouts are (most likely scenerio or they would have gone after him already) then how could they find him?

....uh, yes....? Didn't you just score a point for me, as to exactly *why* SHIELD and Avengers won't come to the rescue here.....?

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Who said anything about "proof?" We are *speculating* here in the News & Speculation thread, correct? This is my theory. Nothing more.

But in answer: if you've got War Machine *and* Iron Patriot, there's at least two battlesuits they've got. Would they stop with just two? Remember Firepower is rumored for the cast as well, and his comic book backstory would definitely fit into the "military-application battlesuit" category.




I didn't know that about Hammer and Vanko. But yeah, anyho, Mandarin engineering an "armor wars" between the US and China hurts the hell out of Stark, too. Probably in more ways than Mandarin could ever have hoped for or achieved with either of the IM1 or IM2 plots.






....uh, yes....? Didn't you just score a point for me, as to exactly *why* SHIELD and Avengers won't come to the rescue here.....?

lol you didn't sound like you were giving me a point...

 

[cherokeesam]

I'm giving you plenty of points, spideyboy.

There's nothing wrong with your theories at all; I'm just spitballing my theories out there, too.

I think the biggest thing my theory hinges on is the identity of Iron Patriot. If Iron Patriot represents a *second* battlesuit for the army, then I've got a lot more foundation for my concept: i.e., the US is gearing up for war. But if Iron Patriot is something else entirely, and if Iron Patriot is actually just the War Machine armor proper with a pimped-out paint job, then it seems more likely that Rhodey has gone missing and the US is trying to cover it up.

 

[Rock Sexton]

I'm giving you plenty of points, spideyboy.

There's nothing wrong with your theories at all; I'm just spitballing my theories out there, too.

I think the biggest thing my theory hinges on is the identity of Iron Patriot. If Iron Patriot represents a *second* battlesuit for the army, then I've got a lot more foundation for my concept: i.e., the US is gearing up for war. But if Iron Patriot is something else entirely, and if Iron Patriot is actually just the War Machine armor proper with a pimped-out paint job, then it seems more likely that Rhodey has gone missing and the US is trying to cover it up.

Remind me again why they would need to "cover up" Rhodey going missing?

Man it sounds like there's the possibility of a lot of different "suits". Doesn't this cheapen the idea of Iron Man?

 

[The Infernal]

im sorry, but if there's a threat to US soil, that is large scale enough that most of the people in the US are aware of it.. the biggest criticism will be how illogical the film is, especially right after avengers. it would be a big mistake imo.

there's plenty of good story telling ways to get around that.. rather than just turn a blind eye.

we also have yet to have any proof what so ever, that there's a threat to the US or a war brewing.

The point I'm trying to make is that you're making too much of a thing about it. Like I've said not every story needs SHEILD or the Avengers and if it plays out convincingly then there may be no need to ask the question 'where were they?'.

? we have no proof what so ever.. that the US is putting together a "team" at all... Iron Patriot proves nothing, other than the fact that the US army wants their own armored poster boy to control



actually... Mandarin was pulling strings with Stane, and also in IronMan 2 with Hammer... the footage tony hacked in DC were all part of Mandarin's 10 rings, and the people who busted Vanko out of jail were all credited as members of the "10 rings"


it fits with what mandarin has been doing (or trying to since ironman 1 (Stane and Hammer)



yes, but doesn't mean his company doesn't have resources or labs in China...





but that's my point.. if Mandarin can cut him off, and Shield has no clue as to wear the Mandarin's wear-abouts are (most likely scenerio or they would have gone after him already) then how could they find him?

I'm seeing a lot of Mandarin this and Mandarin that as though you're sure he's been enacting plans to get at Tony Stark over the first two movies. Where'd you get that from? Because until now there's been no real plan for Mandarin's involvement and it's highly debatable as to what his role is. Until IM3 is out (or we here something substantive about it) who's to say that Mandarin has been pulling the strings all this time or even interested in Tony Stark?

Also, do you think that Hammer was a part of the Ten Rings? He may have used them, but I didn't see much of anything that definitely linked him to the organisation.

If you're just speculating then fair enough, but I'm just asking because you seem to be presenting them as if this is what's happening.

 

[cherokeesam]

Remind me again why they would need to "cover up" Rhodey going missing?

Man it sounds like there's the possibility of a lot of different "suits". Doesn't this cheapen the idea of Iron Man?

Maybe because the reason Rhodey went missing is something that could embarrass the US. Like, say, getting caught while spying on China or something.

As for having a bunch of different suits: I know that's going to be the complaint from both fanboys and GA. "OMG NO MOAR GUYS IN ARMOR." But keep in mind that's pretty much 90% of Iron Man's stories.....there's no getting around that. If it makes you feel better, look at the trilogy this way:

1) Iron Man vs. bigger Iron Man
2) Iron Man vs. carbon copy vs. army of robots
3) Iron Man vs. army of US battlesuits vs. army of Chinese battlesuits

Just sayin'.

 

[Rock Sexton]

Maybe because the reason Rhodey went missing is something that could embarrass the US. Like, say, getting caught while spying on China or something.

If it's covert, who's to know about it to the point where they would need to cover it up? Also it would be pretty obvious it wasn't him when the guy who was in the suit began speaking. If Rhodey/WM were a national treasure I could maybe understand your theory ..... but that's not really the character in the MCU.

As for having a bunch of different suits: I know that's going to be the complaint from both fanboys and GA. "OMG NO MOAR GUYS IN ARMOR." But keep in mind that's pretty much 90% of Iron Man's stories.....there's no getting around that. If it makes you feel better, look at the trilogy this way:

1) Iron Man vs. bigger Iron Man
2) Iron Man vs. carbon copy vs. army of robots
3) Iron Man vs. army of US battlesuits vs. army of Chinese battlesuits

Just sayin'.

The thing that becomes questionable for me is when you have too many guys running around with suits that look too similar (especially the face which IM, IP, and WM all share).

 

[The Infernal]

Hasn't RDJ reportedly said he doesn't like there being too many armoured guys since it detracts from Iron Man? It's funny that IM3 looks to be stuffed full of them.

Though oddly if it is Armour Wars inspired it could be both compounding the problem and the solution. However that relies on Stark taking it on himself again to take out all the other armours. I wonder if that would include the rumoured Chinese armoured heroes (though I doubt he'd kill them, just disable their suits somehow).

 

[spideyboy_1111]

The point I'm trying to make is that you're making too much of a thing about it. Like I've said not every story needs SHEILD or the Avengers and if it plays out convincingly then there may be no need to ask the question 'where were they?'.





I'm seeing a lot of Mandarin this and Mandarin that as though you're sure he's been enacting plans to get at Tony Stark over the first two movies. Where'd you get that from? Because until now there's been no real plan for Mandarin's involvement and it's highly debatable as to what his role is. Until IM3 is out (or we here something substantive about it) who's to say that Mandarin has been pulling the strings all this time or even interested in Tony Stark?

Also, do you think that Hammer was a part of the Ten Rings? He may have used them, but I didn't see much of anything that definitely linked him to the organisation.

If you're just speculating then fair enough, but I'm just asking because you seem to be presenting them as if this is what's happening.

john favreau has said in both Ironman 1 and 2 mandarin has had a presence. And it was confirmed that the men who freed Vanko were indeed members of the 10 rings. Thus the connection to Hammer. (they brought vanko to justin)

 

[The Infernal]

john favreau has said in both Ironman 1 and 2 mandarin has had a presence. And it was confirmed that the men who freed Vanko were indeed members of the 10 rings. Thus the connection to Hammer. (they brought vanko to justin)

Yes, but the way you say it you seem like you're saying Hammer is part of the Ten Rings. I didn't see anything that doesn't suggest anything other than some thugs (albeit Ten Rings thugs) Hammer used to break out Vanko. There's nothing there that suggests any further involvement than that one criminal endeavour between the two of them and I think that they can only be identified as such through credits lends weight to that conclusion more than it does that Hammer was heavily involved with them (I don't see many directors leaving important plot points to the credits which most people won't read).

Also I've also read interviews about Mandarin's possible involvement and they've mentioned not having a clear plan at times. Even if they say 'he has a presence' there's a big leap, I feel, between that and connecting him to most things Tony Stark/Iron Man goes through. There's no possible way you could know Mandarin's motivations or status within the MCU. Much of what you say seems to be adding things together before it's all in place.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Yes, but the way you say it you seem like you're saying Hammer is part of the Ten Rings. I didn't see anything that doesn't suggest anything other than some thugs (albeit Ten Rings thugs) Hammer used to break out Vanko. There's nothing there that suggests any further involvement than that one criminal endeavour between the two of them and I think that they can only be identified as such through credits lends weight to that conclusion more than it does that Hammer was heavily involved with them (I don't see many directors leaving important plot points to the credits which most people won't read).

Also I've also read interviews about Mandarin's possible involvement and they've mentioned not having a clear plan at times. Even if they say 'he has a presence' there's a big leap, I feel, between that and connecting him to most things Tony Stark/Iron Man goes through. There's no possible way you could know Mandarin's motivations or status within the MCU. Much of what you say seems to be adding things together before it's all in place.

well... if the 10 rings freed Vanko and giving him to Hammer, there's reason to believe they're working with Hammer. we just don't know the extent. it's very easy to believe he's set both villains up from the beginning... It's also not farfetch'd considering Hammer is yet another arms dealer that Mandarin would want to get a hold of.

 

[The Infernal]

well... if the 10 rings freed Vanko and giving him to Hammer, there's reason to believe they're working with Hammer. we just don't know the extent. it's very easy to believe he's set both villains up from the beginning... It's also not farfetch'd considering Hammer is yet another arms dealer that Mandarin would want to get a hold of.

And that's my point. That could have merely been work for hire and with no other involvement and with no real foreshadowing (like making the Ten Rings association an actual plot point and more evident) to the audience it's way too much to say that Mandarin was pulling the strings on Hammer. Adding that into IM3 and making it so Mandarin was actively enacting a 'master plan' through that event could arguably be called out as retcon.

Also I think Mandarin pulling the strings in IM1 is also on shaky ground since Razza stumbles upon Stark and later gets punk'd by Stane. Right now it just looks like a budding terrorist/criminal organisation rather than a Spectre wannabe.

I'd be a lot happier with them inserting Mandarin actively working against Iron Man back then if it didn't look like he already failed twice. I don't like the idea of a convoluted story that explains them as secretly wins for Mandarin either.

If he's introduced in IM3 as having been in charge of the Ten Rings organisation for a long time that's fine by me, but I'm skeptical of them making it so he already has a vendetta against Tony Stark and has been actively plotting against him all this time.

Maybe the Ten Rings is more a large criminal organisation and that the Stark kidnapping and Vanko jail break were separate contracts with different clients? Mandarin isn't likely to personally know about every single operation such a large organisation would undertake.

 

[cherokeesam]

If it's covert, who's to know about it to the point where they would need to cover it up? Also it would be pretty obvious it wasn't him when the guy who was in the suit began speaking. If Rhodey/WM were a national treasure I could maybe understand your theory ..... but that's not really the character in the MCU.

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with you.
So I think that the first theory holds more water, then: Iron Patriot is an *additional* suit in the US army's arsenal. And, I keep coming back to this, I'm pretty sure Firepower will be added to the list as well, and maybe even more. So you've got a U.S. armored batallion, a Chinese armored batallion, maybe some Extremis-ized thugs.....yeah, I think this is a helluva lot closer to Armor Wars than to a straight read on Extremis.

 

[Gold Samurai]

You make a good point here. The color schemes are pretty much the exact same thing. You guys said the IP in the set photos has a cannon on his back? I think I missed that, but regardless, Detroit Steel has external weapons. Maybe it can end up being him.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

And that's my point. That could have merely been work for hire and with no other involvement and with no real foreshadowing (like making the Ten Rings association an actual plot point and more evident) to the audience it's way too much to say that Mandarin was pulling the strings on Hammer. Adding that into IM3 and making it so Mandarin was actively enacting a 'master plan' through that event could arguably be called out as retcon.

Also I think Mandarin pulling the strings in IM1 is also on shaky ground since Razza stumbles upon Stark and later gets punk'd by Stane. Right now it just looks like a budding terrorist/criminal organisation rather than a Spectre wannabe.

I'd be a lot happier with them inserting Mandarin actively working against Iron Man back then if it didn't look like he already failed twice. I don't like the idea of a convoluted story that explains them as secretly wins for Mandarin either.

If he's introduced in IM3 as having been in charge of the Ten Rings organisation for a long time that's fine by me, but I'm skeptical of them making it so he already has a vendetta against Tony Stark and has been actively plotting against him all this time.

Maybe the Ten Rings is more a large criminal organisation and that the Stark kidnapping and Vanko jail break were separate contracts with different clients? Mandarin isn't likely to personally know about every single operation such a large organisation would undertake.

You can argue if it's effective foreshadowing or not. But it was johns intent and there's Mandarin references in both films regardless. I don't think anyone would scream Retcon. It all makes sense and is logical

 

[Tony Stark]

To me though, that's corny as heck .... especially in an MCU where we STILL have Cap.

This is easily explainable:

1.) We know that ever since Rogers they have unsuccessfully tried to recreate the super soldier program.

2.) We know the government has been trying to get ahold of Stark's Iron Man technology for a weapon.

3.) Eric Savin is a member of the military.

4.) Eric Savin become the new super soldier using Stark's technology and is made to look like Cap in his honor.

 

[Quasimod0]

Detroit steel perhaps?

 

[cherokeesam]

What's the deal with his legs? Obviously some sort of padding and contacts for CGI to be added in post, but are Iron Patriot's legs so bizarre or whatever that they have to be CG-ed in?

 

[The Infernal]

You can argue if it's effective foreshadowing or not. But it was johns intent and there's Mandarin references in both films regardless. I don't think anyone would scream Retcon. It all makes sense and is logical

You know what. Find me the quote where Favreau mentions it was his intent that Mandarin was manipulating Hammer and that Ten Rings were actively working with him as opposed to work for hire and I'll change my tune (and not some vague assertions to some form of presence). Right now all we have is the credits to go on that these guys are Ten Rings. It would have made more sense to have actively involved them more if it were the case since they were more actively involved in the previous movie (it looks more like a cameo at the moment).

Right now it just doesn't look like the best logical step to say Mandarin was behind it all with a master plan when there's so little proof.

But if you can't then lets drop it and agree to disagree. I think we've exhausted the argument for the moment.

 

[Rock Sexton]

What's the deal with his legs? Obviously some sort of padding and contacts for CGI to be added in post, but are Iron Patriot's legs so bizarre or whatever that they have to be CG-ed in?

That's just the standard under-gear for what eventually will be CGI'd in.

I wish I could find the funny shots of Cheadle and RDJ in their PJ bottoms.

EDIT: Found it ....

 

[The Infernal]

What's the deal with his legs? Obviously some sort of padding and contacts for CGI to be added in post, but are Iron Patriot's legs so bizarre or whatever that they have to be CG-ed in?

No, it's the same sort of treatment Iron Man gets sometimes when filming. Better mobility, probably.

 

[Gold Samurai]

What's the deal with his legs? Obviously some sort of padding and contacts for CGI to be added in post, but are Iron Patriot's legs so bizarre or whatever that they have to be CG-ed in?

What Rock Sexton said.

Nowadays actors rarely have to wear a full suit of armor on set.

The days of sticking a hose and spraying cold air(RoboCop) into a suit are long gone

 

[spideyboy_1111]

You know what. Find me the quote where Favreau mentions it was his intent that Mandarin was manipulating Hammer and that Ten Rings were actively working with him as opposed to work for hire and I'll change my tune (and not some vague assertions to some form of presence). Right now all we have is the credits to go on that these guys are Ten Rings. It would have made more sense to have actively involved them more if it were the case since they were more actively involved in the previous movie (it looks more like a cameo at the moment).

Right now it just doesn't look like the best logical step to say Mandarin was behind it all with a master plan when there's so little proof.

But if you can't then lets drop it and agree to disagree. I think we've exhausted the argument for the moment.

http://www.**************.com/fansites/Poniverse/news/?a=15697

"Mandarin is connected to every villain stark faces"

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Ugh crap. It's on the site we can't link to.... Just google "Mandarin iron man 2" and look for the site. Long article

 

[spideyboy_1111]

The article also predates iron man 2, but johns quotes are about ironman one and 2.

The article also discusses the fact that Justin hammer is also wearing one of the Mandarins 10 rings, like raza (and stane, after he killed raza)