Civil War The Iron Man Thread (Cap 3 Edition)

[HUMANIMAL]

plus bucky was brainwashed...he should forgive him for not being himself. he is that ful of fear psycho from the third movie...after he had that nightmare in AoU he thinks he needs to control all of it even fmore?

 

[TalismanRing]

I'm sure Cap is fighting for more than just Bucky, Bucky is probably just the cherry on top of everything else that motivates Cap in Civil War.

It's definitely not just about Bucky, it's rather that he's a personal facet to Cap's actions.

The scene where Steve and Sam find Bucky isn't early in the film and The Accords are already in play and causing divisiveness. Steve considers calling Tony but says it would have been easier last week before The Accords.

 

[Leenie]

Awww, this is adorable!

Now, THIS is the real side that I'm on: Everyone getting along again.

 

[HUMANIMAL]

so cute...send this to RDJ

 

[Leenie]

is this story official now or did you just made it up? cause i'd consider that as a spoiler and you would'nt like when i'm angry

Apologies, but this has been discussed by quite a few people in this thread (and other threads I've looked through).

If it's a spoiler, I'm sorry. Right now though, I guess it's in the "high speculation" category?

 

[Leenie]

plus bucky was brainwashed...he should forgive him for not being himself. he is that ful of fear psycho from the third movie...after he had that nightmare in AoU he thinks he needs to control all of it even fmore?

Bucky was brainwashed; that's not up for debate. How is anyone confident that he's "snapped out of it," though? What if he regresses? What if Cap isn't confident about Bucky himself, and is just holding onto false hope for his friend? These are legit concerns that other characters might have, in my opinion.

While Ulton existed because of Tony ... The Vision also exists because of him, too. Tony does have that "self-fulfilling prophecy" thing going on for him, but he also manages to find a way out.

 

[HUMANIMAL]

don't worry about buckys murder story...it seems to be a rumour nonetheless...so tony made something wrong but he also made something good...but i doubt they trust him...yet still he doesen't gets the blame...or atleast we still dont know it yet...tony should be persecuted and arrested such as bucky...

 

[DoubleO88]

Awww, this is adorable!

Now, THIS is the real side that I'm on: Everyone getting along again.

The reason this trailer really grabbed people's attention was because the conflict was real, it's not just a moustache twirling villain vs the heroes, we've seen that already, like ALL the time. The conflict is more human and relatable in this.

That's what's going to make the the greatest superhero flick ever, because of how real the stakes are and how divided we are. The MCU finally has some REAL drama.

 

[ryuuko]

tony funded all this but cap get the blame for leading the avengers. also hiding a former terrorist. which he thinks should'nt be killed by the ones who blame him.

sorry am i the only only who remember Wanda basically gave Tony the vision that resulted in Ultron? And how is it because he's funding the avengers and everything is his fault now?

 

[ryuuko]

well this article of Russo's explanation of the trailer pretty much says cap's sole motivation if because of bucky, which i don't buy it at all.
http://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/captain-america-civil-war-trailer-breakdown/

i really don't get why everyone is so quick to forgive all the innocent lifes killed by bucky just because he was "brainwashed" and so quick to trust and welcome him to avengers without even making sure that he's really 'snapped out of it, all while he hasn't done anything to makeup for the damage he's caused.

and when it's tony's case, where he was also pretty much "brainwashed" by wanda, scarified himself numerous time to try to make-up for what he's done, and everyone's like "no we can never forgive him, he needs to be put on a stake and burned"

 

[TalismanRing]

The key word is "solely". There are political reasons for Cap's actions but also personal ones and those exist for everyone. Tony's guilt over Ultron is a personal motivator (and if the rumors are true he might have another).

“The challenge was, we’re doing the story of Civil War,” says Anthony Russo. “Which everybody knows is nominally about superhero registration. And in a lot of ways that can be a political issue, and we didn’t want the conflict of the movie to solely exist on that level. We wanted to figure out very personal reasons why everyone’s relationship to this idea of registration is going to become complicated. That’s what the relationship between Steve and Bucky allowed us to do, to get very personal in terms of why people would lean one way or the other.”

“You cannot have a character called Captain America without examining the politics of what that means, especially in this day and age,” says Joe Russo. “The heroes in this universe operate under their own auspices, not under the directive of a government, and that can cause a lot of problems. There’s a certain level of imperialism that we’re examining – what right do those that have power have to use that power, even if it’s to do good? How do you govern that kind of power?”

 

[ryuuko]

I mean I understand there are politics involved and the Accord and the need for governmental oversight is the underlying conflict, but isn't Russo's words

That’s what the relationship between Steve and Bucky allowed us to do, to get very personal in terms of why people would lean one way or the other.

pretty much says, the reason for Steve to be against the Accords is because of Bucky?

 

[Godzillasaurus]

I find it very cool how Tony's helmet can retract like a hood where it is kept behind the neck when not equipped. It is a lot like Zant's helmet from Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess:

 

[ernesth100]

I never noticed his helmet retracting like that.

 

[Godzillasaurus]

I don't feel like making another gif, but go to 1:18 in the trailer. You can see the helmet moving down along his neck like a hood

 

[HUMANIMAL]

sorry am i the only only who remember Wanda basically gave Tony the vision that resulted in Ultron? And how is it because he's funding the avengers and everything is his fault now?

...sorry i guess you don't get it...it's not ALL his fault..but funding a group that's now considered a threat makes him guilty as well

 

[HUMANIMAL]

the question is and remains...why we see cap being hunted down by ross and tony when tony was part of the avengers as well?

 

[HUMANIMAL]

sorry am i the only only who remember Wanda basically gave Tony the vision that resulted in Ultron? And how is it because he's funding the avengers and everything is his fault now?

you did'n teven responded to what i was posting aren't you?

 

[Mike5575]

well this article of Russo's explanation of the trailer pretty much says cap's sole motivation if because of bucky, which i don't buy it at all.
http://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/captain-america-civil-war-trailer-breakdown/

i really don't get why everyone is so quick to forgive all the innocent lifes killed by bucky just because he was "brainwashed" and so quick to trust and welcome him to avengers without even making sure that he's really 'snapped out of it, all while he hasn't done anything to makeup for the damage he's caused.

and when it's tony's case, where he was also pretty much "brainwashed" by wanda, scarified himself numerous time to try to make-up for what he's done, and everyone's like "no we can never forgive him, he needs to be put on a stake and burned"

Well, that's extremely unfair. Bucky can't be held responsible for his sins, because he WAS brainwashed. Stark Wasn't brainwashed by Wanda. She merely showed him his own fear. We have no clue about what Bucky has done since TWS. No, go back and watch AOU. You'll see that Tony was an ass-hat for creating Ultron.

 

[The Chris]

Well, that's extremely unfair. Bucky can't be held responsible for his sins, because he WAS brainwashed. Stark Wasn't brainwashed by Wanda. She merely showed him his own fear. We have no clue about what Bucky has done since TWS. No, go back and watch AOU. You'll see that Tony was an ass-hat for creating Ultron.

I look at Bucky like I look at Kilgrave's victims in "Jessica Jones". Only difference is they used machinery and torture to program Bucky.

 

[TalismanRing]

Well, that's extremely unfair. Bucky can't be held responsible for his sins, because he WAS brainwashed. Stark Wasn't brainwashed by Wanda. She merely showed him his own fear. We have no clue about what Bucky has done since TWS. No, go back and watch AOU. You'll see that Tony was an ass-hat for creating Ultron.

Tony didn't create Ultron as he became. He was working on the Ultron program as a world protection force and saw that the gem in the scepter had an A.I. program.

He tried to access it think he might be able to use it to make Ultron more effective to protect the world especially against that Alien Invasion he knows is coming.. But he and Bruce couldn't crack it and never turneded on the switch let alone implemented him. Ultron turned himself on and then he got lots of help from Wanda and Pietro in his reign of destruction. (and then there's Thanos who seems to have had a hand in it)

Now Wanda, she was an asshat and deliberately set out to kill and destroy but gets a pass, I guess because she's a very pretty girl with a tragic back sob story.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Tony comes of as the face in wrestling terms, what Cap is doing is selfish and almost childlike. Bucky has a lot of blood on his hands, brainwashing or not it needs to be addressed and he needs to face some form of justice. Tony is merely trying to facilitate that and make sure they as heroes are not a law unto themselves.

"So was I"

Bucky was a torture victim; all Tony can claim was a vision by SW that played on his ego. Neither the US government or the United Nations asked Tony to create a global defense program. Even Bruce knew that what Tony was doing was inherently risky. Even though Tony did his best to compensate for what he had done, it doesn't change the fact that an entire city was displaced, the world was put at risk, and people died because of Stark's AI program. Logically, Stark should be in jail for a long time.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Bucky was a torture victim; all Tony can claim was a vision by SW that played on his ego. Neither the US government or the United Nations asked Tony to create a global defense program. Even Bruce knew that what Tony was doing was inherently risky. Even though Tony did his best to compensate for what he had done, it doesn't change the fact that an entire city was displaced, the world was put at risk, and people died because of Stark's AI program. Logically, Stark should be in jail for a long time.

What Tony did went wrong but was not criminal, it was like any other defense system that backfires, and perhaps part of him taking responsibility is the registration act that he accepts, the military and US government aren't gonna put their biggest asset in prison for trying to protect the world. On the other hand Bucky has not faced any consequences for the many people he has murdered, no matter what happened to him you can't just say "awww let him go because he was brainwashed" that's not justice for all the innocents he killed.

 

[Lantern Venom]

What Tony did went wrong but was not criminal, it was like any other defense system that backfires, and perhaps part of him taking responsibility is the registration act that he accepts, the military and US government aren't gonna put their biggest asset in prison for trying to protect the world. On the other hand Bucky has not faced any consequences for the many people he has murdered, no matter what happened to him you can't just say "awww let him go because he was brainwashed" that's not justice for all the innocents he killed.

He had no authorization to attempt what he did, therefore making it criminal negligence. The fact that he has Thunderbolt Ross (who put a highly-populated college at risk and nearly got his daughter killed via his negligence) defending the course of action is a red flag. Whatever side Ross is on is usually the wrong one.

 

[Hunter Rider]

He had no authorization to attempt what he did, therefore making it criminal negligence. The fact that he has Thunderbolt Ross (who put a highly-populated college at risk and nearly got his daughter killed via his negligence) defending the course of action is a red flag. Whatever side Ross is on is usually the wrong one.

That's the whole point of the registration act, The Avengers were put in a position above the law where Tony was free to make a call like that, hence why he's in support of it as he had a big wake-up call as to how the Avengers need to be held accountable. None of this is an excuse for Cap's naive, childish and criminal act of hiding a killer.