The Issue of Hulk and Civilian Deaths

[co2]

Exactly.
If you flick a rattlesnake in the head repeatedly and then it finally bites you, is it the rattlesnake's fault for doing anything other than what it was designed to do?

Precisely.
The Hulk looks like he may kill unintentionally, only out of self defense. If you start attacking and enraging a wild animal, you can't blame it for defending itself. He's only reacting in a way to protect himself or others.
If the Hulk acts with the sole intent of killing, that's a different story but I don't think that is what we have here.

 

[hame4479]

It is someones own fault if they dare try and stand in the way of a 10 foot tall ferocious giant. The only other comparison I can think of would be me going into a lions or bears cage and ****ing with them. Of course I am going to get mauled, its simple common sense to not get in the way of something like that and anyone who does will prolly get what is comin their way.

 

[Doright]

It is someones own fault if they dare try and stand in the way of a 10 foot tall ferocious giant. The only other comparison I can think of would be me going into a lions or bears cage and ****ing with them. Of course I am going to get mauled, its simple common sense to not get in the way of something like that and anyone who does will prolly get what is comin their way.

You mess with the bull... sometimes you get the horns.

 

[Spade]

I never saw why this was a problem with the Marvel Universe's Hulk. We all know that the more info we get on the world around us, the more writers are going to try and plant these wonderous heroes in reality. It helps sell them. In real life, a monster like Hulk could easily kill in self-defense. Now, you have bad versions like Ultimate Hulk that take it way too far and have Hulk killing people left and right. But I've yet to see a clip where Hulk does that in this film. The only fatality we've seen was done to save Betty; if you ask me, that's a justifiable reason to lash out at the attacker.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

You mess with the bull... sometimes you get the horns.

 

[November Rain]

that is sligthly disturbing.

there is no reason to "smack" a child unless you are tying to instill that physical violence is a viable solution to life's problems.

er....physical violence is a viable solution to life's problems, we've been doing it since the dawn of time, they are called wars...

 

[November Rain]

sorry to disagree but I hope some ppl die Hulk is going to use enough force to get the job done and consider his strength he'll probably kill ppl

Alright,

if you sleptwalk and you found out you killed people while doing this, wouldn't you want to hand yourself in to make sure it didn't happen to anyone else.

I feel the hulk does have some form of control otherwise in all his years, he would have accidentally killed betty already. What he does is openly acesses what is and isn't collateral damage and weighs up peoples lives unequally.

When this starts to occur, then banner's motives must seriously come into question and I wouldn't see any reason why he wouldn't want himself incarcerated or hand himself in or place himself in a comatose sleep.

 

[Knightsaber Priss]

It is someones own fault if they dare try and stand in the way of a 10 foot tall ferocious giant. The only other comparison I can think of would be me going into a lions or bears cage and ****ing with them. Of course I am going to get mauled, its simple common sense to not get in the way of something like that and anyone who does will prolly get what is comin their way.

Oh jeez, don't pull a Timothy Treadwell on us now just to prove your point.

er....physical violence is a viable solution to life's problems, we've been doing it since the dawn of time, they are called wars...

Yeah, cause corporal punishment really screwed me up to the point I can't trust people anymore. True story. Domestic abuse is not discipline.

 

[FrostBite]

Alright,

if you sleptwalk and you found out you killed people while doing this, wouldn't you want to hand yourself in to make sure it didn't happen to anyone else.

Maybe, or maybe I'd try to find a pill NO WAIT, better... a serum some...some sort of cure ...

Maybe in the mean time I'd practice meditation techniques to re-energize my body without sleeping...

Hmm... maybe, just maybe. Sounds better than jail.

 

[FrostBite]

Yeah, cause corporal punishment really screwed me up to the point I can't trust people anymore. True story. Domestic abuse is not discipline.

Funny my girl trusts people to much even after all of it. Hm, but she does have terrible confrontation issues, won't even ask friends to go out and do something.

 

[Kirmit]

Alright,

if you sleptwalk and you found out you killed people while doing this, wouldn't you want to hand yourself in to make sure it didn't happen to anyone else.

Sorry but you really can't use this example for the Hulk. Banner wants to stop it happening, that's why he's searching for a cure, he wants to get rid of the problem. Now handing himself in will do no good since if the Hulk doesn't want to be contained he won't be contained, just like what happened at the army base in Ang's Hulk.

IMO the Hulk just wants to be left alone, if the army did just that then the Hulk wouldn't cause damage, possibly hurting people but because they persist in hunting him it does happen, therefore any casualites would be the armies fault.

 

[FrostBite]

Sorry but you really can't use this example for the Hulk. Banner wants to stop it happening, that's why he's searching for a cure, he wants to get rid of the problem. Now handing himself in will do no good since if the Hulk doesn't want to be contained he won't be contained, just like what happened at the army base in Ang's Hulk.

IMO the Hulk just wants to be left alone, if the army did just that then the Hulk wouldn't cause damage, possibly hurting people but because they persist in hunting him it does happen, therefore any casualties would be the armies fault.

Actually he can't be put in because they want to use the Hulk as a weapon not cure him, and not contain him. They want to take the beast and use it to hurt other people.

It's like abducting the sleep walker just to use him at another date to kill others.

 

[Kirmit]

True, that's another reason for Banner not to hand himself in but also what I said, it won't do any good, Hulk was in one of the most secure bases in Ang's hulk and even that couldn't hold him, it's better to just try and find a cure.

 

[Knightsaber Priss]

Funny my girl trusts people to much even after all of it. Hm, but she does have terrible confrontation issues, won't even ask friends to go out and do something.

The biggest thing for me is that I'm always afraid of getting hurt both physically and emotionally and being screwed over when I need help the most. Violence is a horrible thing that humans use against each other to mentally control other people with. Sometimes people who have been abused in the name of discipline will become just as violent, not more disciplined. I believe these are themes that have been explored in the comics and which were touched upon in Ang Lee's movie. I hope that in future sequels they delve into this aspect of Bruce Banner, that of the scared little child inside who was abused by his father.

 

[November Rain]

Maybe, or maybe I'd try to find a pill NO WAIT, better... a serum some...some sort of cure ...

Maybe in the mean time I'd practice meditation techniques to re-energize my body without sleeping...

Hmm... maybe, just maybe. Sounds better than jail.

so you've put your own well being over other people's lives...

selfish.

 

[terry78]

This mere conversation about the Hulk has gotten way too deep.

 

[November Rain]

Sorry but you really can't use this example for the Hulk. Banner wants to stop it happening, that's why he's searching for a cure, he wants to get rid of the problem. Now handing himself in will do no good since if the Hulk doesn't want to be contained he won't be contained, just like what happened at the army base in Ang's Hulk.

IMO the Hulk just wants to be left alone, if the army did just that then the Hulk wouldn't cause damage, possibly hurting people but because they persist in hunting him it does happen, therefore any casualites would be the armies fault.

banner contained the hulk at the gamma base and he was happy to be incarcerated, they prompted the hulk out for experimental purposes in order to get some sort of super soldier formulae.

Also hulk had never harmed an innocent in that film.

It's a completely different case to having dozens of innocent casualties from a hulk out.

Look at heroes, when peter was about to explode, he was willing to have someone get him killed rather than hurt an innocent, banner would be no different. If you harm innocents, you have to be responsible and get put away or request being put elsewhere for other people's security.

that's why ultimate banner doesn't really mind being locked up because ultimate hulk was a big liability.

When you are locked up away, you can do all the research you want but if you are a run, you are a danger to people and everyone knows it.

 

[November Rain]

Yeah, cause corporal punishment really screwed me up to the point I can't trust people anymore. True story. Domestic abuse is not discipline.

In all honesty, I believe that smacking is pretty different from what happened to you. There's a big difference between domestic abuse and smacking.

The majority of african children are smacked, none of them believe they've been abused. I probably believe that western parents who do hit their kids do it out of the wrong reasons and out of frustrations rather than as part of a learning method to have kids evade bad behaviour.

I don't think you're really a poster child of why smacking doesn't work.

 

[November Rain]

This mere conversation about the Hulk has gotten way too deep.

In essence he's probably the deepest character marvel has. He's incredibly complex so it's not apparent the conversation has followed.

its a shame though that with all his complexities, the majority of fans just seem him as 'the strongest one there is' complete 2d character.

This as well as the 'lonely man looking for a cure' theme adopted by the repetitive tv series i don't believe have really done much for his profile over the years, let alone his countless confrontations with heroes.

but that's the way of the world....

 

[FrostBite]

banner contained the hulk at the gamma base and he was happy to be incarcerated, they prompted the hulk out for experimental purposes in order to get some sort of super soldier formulae.

Also hulk had never harmed an innocent in that film.

It's a completely different case to having dozens of innocent casualties from a hulk out.

Look at heroes, when peter was about to explode, he was willing to have someone get him killed rather than hurt an innocent, banner would be no different. If you harm innocents, you have to be responsible and get put away or request being put elsewhere for other people's security.

that's why ultimate banner doesn't really mind being locked up because ultimate hulk was a big liability.

When you are locked up away, you can do all the research you want but if you are a run, you are a danger to people and everyone knows it.

Except you know, in the Ultimates they don't want the Hulk out at all.

In this film and in Ang's they want it as a weapon.

You are really missing that point completely aren't you? That if he is incarcerated they WILL NOT allow him to look for a cure, they don't care about Banner, they want to use what he has as a weapon.

But, no no no, you're right let him turn himself in so the military has super advanced Hulk soldiers on their hands, FANTASTIC idea.

 

[November Rain]

Why wouldn't they let him look for a cure, plenty of villains are allowed to do research while still in jail, why not heroes?

The idea that he wouldnt be allowed to have work done in him while in custody is beyond ridiculous. Banner is in the top ten smartest people worldwide, you think the government would let an asset like that simply go to waste? Especially considering what his research can mean to others?

In ang's film, they wanted him neutralised and that's what ross did. Betty wanted to help him but had no other way of doing so except for calling the authorities (because that's what normal people would do) and ross was happy to have him sedated for ever.

I don't know why you are bringing out ang's film because it's completely different since he never harmed an innocent and went out of his way to save those who were hunting him.

your assumptions of not allowing him to work while contained are completely flawed. I'm almost certain he's been allowed to do research while contained in the comics, he has in the cartoons and also in the ultimates.

Ross' and the military's initial response to the hulk was to kill it rather than salvage it's 'power', I've always felt that has been something other people like the leader have always wanted. They've mixed motivations in order to suit the narrative and therefore misrepresented some of the relationships in the comic.

shame really

 

[FrostBite]

Why wouldn't they let him look for a cure, plenty of villains are allowed to do research while still in jail, why not heroes?

The idea that he wouldnt be allowed to have work done in him while in custody is beyond ridiculous. Banner is in the top ten smartest people worldwide, you think the government would let an asset like that simply go to waste? Especially considering what his research can mean to others?

Stopped reading here. You know why? Because its the freaking plot line, that's why. They want to use him as a weapon in this, and thats not exactly far off from real life. If you don't like it don't see it. But it would most certainly happen regardless of comic book canon. (Which I hate being brought into movie discussions as no comic film has ever accurately portrayed it's source material in my book.)

Do you REALLY think in real life any government would let that kind of weapon slip out of their grasp? I can assure you more people than simply the U.S. Government would be hunting Hulk for the simple intention of using it as a weapon.

Sure, a government would probably let him cure himself, after they've found out a way to use it to their benefit. If you really think any countries government is such a goody-two-shoes as to say "Nah, we don't want to use this, let's just help you and that'll be the end of that..." then I feel for you, I truly do.

Thus, Banner is on the run, he doesn't want to be held captive because their will probably perform horrific tests on him, concentrate the power of the Hulk, slap it into super soldiers, and use it during wars to kill people.

But no, that's clearly "selfish."

 

[Cracker Jack]

Do you REALLY think in real life any government would let that kind of weapon slip out of their grasp? I can assure you more people than simply the U.S. Government would be hunting Hulk for the simple intention of using it as a weapon.

Sure, a government would probably let him cure himself, after they've found out a way to use it to their benefit. "

Well put Frosty
This should really put an end to this ridiculous discussion. Sheeesh!

 

[Dangerous]

Dangerous, the rest of your post I agree with, but...you're kinda wrong with most of the superheroes that you mention.

Superman has killed. He killed the three Kryptonian soldiers that tried to take over (I forget the name of the comic).

Captain America was first a soldier in WWII. He's killed then, and he's killed during the 70s until today. Even in the Brubaker run, both the old and new Caps have been shown using guns to kill bad guys.

Of course, you already mentioned Iron Man, both in the film and in the comics (The Extremis arc comes to mind).

Really, the only ones mentioned that hasn't killed intentionally is Spider-Man and Batman.

So I was wrong with Supes, I don't read it.

Where did I say anything about Cap?
All I said is Supes and Spidey don't kill unless it's the only way out of a situation. Again, I might be wrong with Supes.

 

[Sarcasm]

Guess I'm the only one that wants Hulk to destroy everything and everyone in this movie.