The Dark Knight The Joker.....Before he becomes the Joker

I don't think Nolan wants to do an origin story for the joker, as it's been seen before in film, very iconically. He won't wanna try to 'out do' that. He'll probably leave the backstory out. Just describe it or have breif flashbacks. Nolan will want to tone down the humour of the joker, in favour for a more sinister edge, so the Joker will not be a direct comic book translation. Nolan's world isn't the same as the comic book.
 
I think Nolans world has the same feel as the comics.
Which, for me, is more important than an exact visual translation.

What makes Joker so sinister, to me, is his humor.
The fact that he takes such glee in his work is what makes him sadistic.

What is more frightening?
A murderer that looks threatening or one that smiles and giggles over the dead body?
Im pretty sure Nolan understands this:the essence of what makes Joker the stuff of nightmares.
 
Cyrusbales said:
I don't think Nolan wants to do an origin story for the joker, as it's been seen before in film, very iconically. He won't wanna try to 'out do' that. He'll probably leave the backstory out. Just describe it or have breif flashbacks. Nolan will want to tone down the humour of the joker, in favour for a more sinister edge, so the Joker will not be a direct comic book translation. Nolan's world isn't the same as the comic book.
I think to a certain extent you'e right. It's been said (by Chas. Roven, I think)
that Nolan is using as one of his inspirations is Joker's first appearance in Batman #1, and he really isn't all that zany in that. He does really enjoy what he does, though, and I think that's what's so creepy about him.
 
I agree, it's just as far as visual translation goes, it won't be as exact as everyone keeps thinking it is. Also in terms of backstory, it's gonna have to be flashbacks, as nolan won't try to outdo burton's version, as that is regarded as a classic scene of cinema. And Nolan has told people many times he wants to be different from burton, not better.
 
7Hells said:
I think Nolans world has the same feel as the comics.
Which, for me, is more important than an exact visual translation.

What makes Joker so sinister, to me, is his humor.
The fact that he takes such glee in his work is what makes him sadistic.


What is more frightening?
A murderer that looks threatening or one that smiles and giggles over the dead body?
Im pretty sure Nolan understands this:the essence of what makes Joker the stuff of nightmares.
this is the MOST IMPORTANT part of the Joker. We haven't heard this from Heath or Chris. The part of me that's still worried is worried that we won't see this.
 
^ Well Ledgers comparison to Clockwork was a bit of a toss to that, though darker.
I doubt Nolan will misunderstand Jokers character so horribly as to not know what makes him so scary.


eeer ihopeihopeihopeihope :p
 
a back story is needed, whether he becomes the joker during the movie or in a flashback...about the joker card, he's nickname could be the joker before the whole accident.
 
I don't see how it's "needed" considering the character went along just fine without one for a great deal amount of time.
 
7Hells said:
^ Well Ledgers comparison to Clockwork was a bit of a toss to that, though darker.
I doubt Nolan will misunderstand Jokers character so horribly as to not know what makes him so scary.


eeer ihopeihopeihopeihope :p
You're probably right. But if we got a statement from either Nolan or Heath saying something like "I'm really excited about bringing this character to life. He's a sadist, but what makes him so scary and different from any other serial killer is that he's this fancy guy who smiles all the time and dresses in bright colors but while killing people and laughing about all the sick things he's done" I would be at ease.
 
batman7289 said:
i hope they make a red hood connection with joker
Whether it's in ambiguous flashbacks, or a full backstory, I suspect they will.
 
Bathead said:
Whether it's in ambiguous flashbacks, or a full backstory, I suspect they will.

I think it'll be a short one, just a nod to the fans!
 
I suspect nothing, actually.

We never got one for Ra's, just his sort of explanation of his origin....almost. And we get none for Crane really, although technically speaking....it is his origin.

I dunno......maybe we'll get a taste.....but a full blown origin explanation? Nah.....I very doubt it will happen.
 
I hope we get a vague explaination like we did with Ra's. :up:
 
If it was up to me to do an introduction the joker's origin I would make it like this, Pre-Joker (Before he becomes joker) would be a struggling comedian with little money to support his wife and daughter he owes money to the mob (Salvator Maroni) and he comes out to be a good guy in the beggining until he is born again this time out of tragedy. His wife and daughter ends up brutally murdered by Maroni's men, and pre-joker ends up getting beaten badly while they put chemicals on him leaving his skin to turn pale and he becomes insanely evil and seeks revenge agaisn't Maroni he's taking no prisoners whoever comes in his way ends up dead or badly scarred. The joker should have pale skin and he should wear a clown's mask with a purple trench coat and a round purple hat. I believe the joker should represent the opposite of Bruce Wayne but there paths are simular, Batman born out of tragedy and so is the Joker, they would both overshadow each other I don't want the sequel to be a Batman vs Joker but at least make the joker have some substance and keep the thesis of the film which is Batman.

What do you guys thinK?
 
saint sinner x said:
If it was up to me to do an introduction the joker's origin I would make it like this, Pre-Joker (Before he becomes joker) would be a struggling comedian with little money to support his wife and daughter he owes money to the mob (Salvator Maroni) and he comes out to be a good guy in the beggining until he is born again this time out of tragedy. His wife and daughter ends up brutally murdered by Maroni's men, and pre-joker ends up getting beaten badly while they put chemicals on him leaving his skin to turn pale and he becomes insanely evil and seeks revenge agaisn't Maroni he's taking no prisoners whoever comes in his way ends up dead or badly scarred. The joker should have pale skin and he should wear a clown's mask with a purple trench coat and a round purple hat. I believe the joker should represent the opposite of Bruce Wayne but there paths are simular, Batman born out of tragedy and so is the Joker, they would both overshadow each other I don't want the sequel to be a Batman vs Joker but at least make the joker have some substance and keep the thesis of the film which is Batman.

What do you guys thinK?

red hood will prob be mentioned if anything, I think Nolan wants to keep it accurate to comics. Althought your idea does sound quite cool, But I can't see Nolan doing something like that.
 
Ok, I guess I found another excuse to post this:

Rather than tell everyone how I don't want the Joker to have a definitive origin, I'll provide one that encompasses all the different versions I've read over the years (plus an idea or two of my own) and distill it down to one.

The Joker (unnamed) as a young boy: His father was a traveling salesman with a growing mental problem. He was slowly unraveling at the seams. Their home was less than extravagant. Lower middle class, I would say. Young Joker was the victim of self imposed isolation. He and his mother were afraid of other's finding out how the father was unraveling. Each trip back to the family would find the father going further off his nut until one night he came home and just collapsed in an unending rain of tears. He just keep repeating 'Laugh, Clown, laugh' through his tears. His father was put into a mental home and died there. It was discovered too late that he had suffered with a brain tumor.

The young Joker and his mother struggled on without him. The financial burdens were almost too much for them to bear. The mother's solution? She met up with a blue collar working man who would improve their financial situation marginally but enough. Unfortunately, the man was an abuser and often came home drunk with lipstick stains on his ripped t-shirt and leather jacket. Joker's mother withstood the frequent beatings and the infidelities for the sake of the roof over their heads and out of fear of more severe beatings. The new boyfriend disliked young Joker intensely. He was of the opinon that the boy was of no good use and a poof. .. a sissy. When left alone with young Joker, the boyfriend made it a point to slap him around thinking to toughen him up.

He was often tormented by the other kids at school because his clothes were not the nicest and that he was overly close to his mother. Having no friends and no refuge at home, Young Joker isolated himself even further - often spending time alone in the dump yards of the local landfill. Often discovering interesting things discarded by others. One day he came upon an old, broken refrigerator that a rat had somehow gotten into and died. This look at something dead and decaying fascinated him. Eventually he took to trapping animals and, exhibiting cruelty borne out of the violences used on him, left them in the refrigerator to suffocate and die. The decaying process interested him more than the killing.

One night, on returning home from one of his junk yard excursions, he had found his mother bruised and beaten. The boyfriend had gotten to her again. Young Joker found him still in the house ... and drunk. He flailed away with his small fists at the drunken abuser who was easily twice his size. The man dragged the boy out to the front room and decided he would teach the 'little girl' a lesson. He removed his belt and wrapped it around his fist like a strap. He started for his zipper and young Joker suspected what was up next.

He grabbed a fireplace poker and started swinging wildly at the boyfriend. The boy creased the man's face with it. The abuser was at once enraged, coming at the boy like a mad killer. He lunged at the boy and knocked him to the ground, smashing the ceramic clowns his mother had collected. The boy never let go of the iron poker, swinging it as best he could at his assailant. To cut right to the chase, the young Joker ends up killing the boyfriend.

The mother is sent to the hospital and social services puts the boy in a foster home not far from where he and his mother had lived. He still makes his excursions into the dump yard. He continues to put living things in the death trap refrigerator so that he can monitor their death. It gives him the only sense of control he has.

Another boy in the foster home, desperately looking for friendship and willing to settle for this odd person who has come into his life, starts following young Joker everywhere. Annoyed with this constant tag along, young Joker makes a huge bend in the wrong direction and locks up this other boy in the death trap. Maybe he had just intended to leave him for an hour to scare him but, once locked in the box, the fascination took over. The boy was left most of the night. When young joker finally released him, the boy was near death.

The authorities were called in and young Joker was sent to Juvenile Prison. While there, they transferred him to a psyche ward where he spent the years up to his 21st birthday.

On turning 21, he was released. It was his intention to build a new life out of the ashes of the old. He tried legitimate jobs. He even took a wife. The problem was, the money never went far enough and he never made much to begin with. At this point, he found himself in the hands of the mob having spent time in 'Juvie' with some of them. They offered him a chance to make real money. A chance to be a part of something big. He took it and started bringing home cash he couldn't explain to his now pregnant wife. So that she wouldn't have to be a part of this, he assumes a false name.. Jack.. Jack Napier. He manages to keep the two lives separate for a while but then it all comes crashing down when some hoods find his wife and do away with her. 'Jack' stops caring about anything at this point and just gives in to his cruelty. He is now Jack full time, leaving the name he was given at birth behind.

'Jack' becomes an ace hit man. Even his mob bosses fear him. This 'Jack' has a cruel streak that knows no bounds. They decide to deal with him. With rumours of a mythical' Batman' sweeping the city. They concoct the story of 'The Red Hood' with every intention of setting Jack up for the fall. Jack, who now has nothing to lose and takes nothing seriously anymore, agrees to don the hood and play the game.

The Red Hood ends, as we all know, with 'Jack' being dumped in a vat of toxic chemicals and, at last, the complete unraveling of his sanity. His new face resembles the broken ceramic clown that had belonged to his mother. He renames himself after the wild card ... Joker.


And there you have it. My take on how the Joker became who he is. How an abused boy becomes a violent gangster and psychotic killer. How he arrives at the name Jack. How he finally fulfills his destiny and become the most monstrous killer ever concieved.

... And, sorry Alan, he was never a stand up comedian. That part is just too lame for me. .....

This is way too long for Nolan to do anything with but if he could sneak a couple of these elements in, it would certainly make me smile... and without Joker poison.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Staff online

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
202,289
Messages
22,080,816
Members
45,880
Latest member
Heartbeat
Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"