Joker "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Part 2

Not sure about directly asking for it since its considered a leak but if you got any questions regarding it or what's in it you can get an answer here.
 
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Why do people even still keep calling it "acid" anyway?

If he fell in a vat of acid, he'd be ****ing dead. No body to even make permawhite. Just say "vat of chemicals" like a sensible human being.
 
Orb said:
Not sure about directly asking for it since its considered a leak but if you got any questions regarding it or what's in it you can get an answer here.
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Fair enough. I guess what I'm curious about is the contextual stuff, dialogue, etc. As other posters have pointed out, Nolan got away with quite a bit contextually because he didn't show it outright, so I'm wondering where Phillips does things differently to warrant that hard "R"...
 
Johnny Gobbs said:
Fair enough. I guess what I'm curious about is the contextual stuff, dialogue, etc. As other posters have pointed out, Nolan got away with quite a bit contextually because he didn't show it outright, so I'm wondering where Phillips does things differently to warrant that hard "R"...
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The Dark Knight easily could've been R but it cuts away to tow that line. This doesn't. To quote James Mangold regarding Logan:

"You have to have a slightly off-pedal goal for your film, and the people who are gonna go "What the f*** is that 8-minute scene between Professor X and Logan? That’s like 8 minutes of two guys in a tank talking.' And it's like 'Yeah. that's not gonna change because the vibe of this movie is an adult drama.' That's why, for instance, we wanted an R-rating. It wasn't because of the violence and it wasn't because of the language, but because I didn't have to write a movie, and neither did my compatriots, for 11-year-olds. If we had a rated-R movie there were gonna be no Happy Meals. There can be no action figures. There was gonna be no marketing on Saturday morning cartoons or anything like it, so that suddenly you're not making a movie written for someone under 14, 15. And that changes the length of scenes. It changes what they're talking about."

The R rating goes beyond just excess violence (which there is plenty of in the script with blood and gore) but diving deeper into more mature themes such as mental health, suicide, abuse and just darker human drama. The script doesn't cut away from this kinda of stuff as say TDK did. There's also quite bit of black comedy in the script and it allows the movie to be weirder if say it was targeted towards a mass audience. Also there's a **** ton of swearing.

Side note: I think the MPAA is BS anyways because there is such a thin line between a hard PG13 and R. Three F bombs? You showed the knife going in and out of the body? Boom R! PG 13 used to be harsher back in the day but now its hardly that different from PG imo.
 
So the “Rated R” rating was confirmed. Going to be real interesting! Can’t wait to see this film.
 
Orb said:
The Dark Knight easily could've been R but it cuts away to tow that line. This doesn't. To quote James Mangold regarding Logan:

"You have to have a slightly off-pedal goal for your film, and the people who are gonna go "What the f*** is that 8-minute scene between Professor X and Logan? That’s like 8 minutes of two guys in a tank talking.' And it's like 'Yeah. that's not gonna change because the vibe of this movie is an adult drama.' That's why, for instance, we wanted an R-rating. It wasn't because of the violence and it wasn't because of the language, but because I didn't have to write a movie, and neither did my compatriots, for 11-year-olds. If we had a rated-R movie there were gonna be no Happy Meals. There can be no action figures. There was gonna be no marketing on Saturday morning cartoons or anything like it, so that suddenly you're not making a movie written for someone under 14, 15. And that changes the length of scenes. It changes what they're talking about."

The R rating goes beyond just excess violence (which there is plenty of in the script with blood and gore) but diving deeper into more mature themes such as mental health, suicide, abuse and just darker human drama. The script doesn't cut away from this kinda of stuff as say TDK did. There's also quite bit of black comedy in the script and it allows the movie to be weirder if say it was targeted towards a mass audience. Also there's a **** ton of swearing.

Side note: I think the MPAA is BS anyways because there is such a thin line between a hard PG13 and R. Three F bombs? You showed the knife going in and out of the body? Boom R! PG 13 used to be harsher back in the day but now its hardly that different from PG imo.
Click to expand...

Nice. I gotta say, I'm still completely on board with all of this. Especially the cursing, I'm ready for a Joker who isn't too cheesy (Nicholson) or quasi-philosophical (Ledger), just a culmination of the worst things this world throws at a guy with when he's already down. I have a feeling some people are going to want to hate him, but won't be able to completely because of how close to home it will actually hit. I am somewhat worried, however, of the cultural impact this movie might have, with respect to certain themes. I'll just leave it at that.
 
Johnny Gobbs said:
I am somewhat worried, however, of the cultural impact this movie might have, with respect to certain themes. I'll just leave it at that.
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I don't like how we've begun to chastise art for some wackos mis-interpreting it. Fight Club very much refutes everything that Tyler Durden stood for, and Travis Bickle is painted as nothing other than a bad man in Taxi Driver, and yet people blame those films for glorifying their actions. Ditto Wolf of Wall Street.
From, at least the script, this film is very much against what Arthur does and views him with a level of contempt. I'm sure some people will misinterpret that as idolizing him, which would be a shame, since I think we should be judging it on its own terms.
 
People are too sensitive these days with movies that show how terrible and disgusting the world can be. You can't show something bad happening in a movie because there will always be the poor soul who will cry about it. I mean, there are limits, of course, but people get triggered about everything these days.
 
Hollis Mason said:
People are too sensitive these days with movies that show how terrible and disgusting the world can be. You can't show something bad happening in a movie because there will always be the poor soul who will cry about it. I mean, there are limits, of course, but people get triggered about everything these days.
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As long as it doesn't glorify it I don't see why it's wrong. If it's there for a purpose then we should judge it on its effectiveness in helping that narrative purpose. Like, Brightburn is incredibly violent but it also wasn't about anything; so all the violence felt empty. Joker seems like it's trying to talk about serious subject matter, so its using violence in order to help drive many of those themes home, and to not neuter them.
 
I'm inclined to agree with all your sentiments; it doesn't mean I can't still be concerned. And not just with respect to how some "wacko" will interpret the movies themes/message, but how certain special interest groups might use the trope of the "wacko" (or even an actual "wacko") to push an specific agenda. Like it or not, movies have become highly politicized over time. Which on one hand makes them interesting when they touch upon things reflected in our society, but also can be somewhat dangerous when people misuse the power of a potent message for something shady.
 
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