Joker "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Part 2

[HBarnill]

They use the song Rock n Roll by Gary Glitter. Don’t know what’s more offensive: they used a song by a convicted child predator or that it’s glam rock.

 

[The Shape]

I don't care about the RT "score" and don't care if the film gets negative reviews. What bothers me are the handful of reviews that seem to be negative due to the possible "real world implications" and worrying about what people who see the film may or may not do. The EW review (or non-review) is the prime example. Other than praising Phoenix, that review barely even discusses or evaluates the quality of the film itself, instead mostly pondering the real-world aftermath and suggesting the film is simply too scary and realistic. It seems like some critics couldn't or wouldn't bring themselves to simply evaluate the effectiveness of the film itself due to the subject matter.

I understand the social climate we are now living in, especially with all of the horrible acts of violence that have taken place recently (which is technically nothing new for America). But it's almost like some people have forgotten that many of the best films of all time are raw, hard-hitting, R-rated dramas focused around morally abhorrent characters and/or dark, realistic subject matter. (The Godfather!!!)

Art imitates life, and many great films have mirrored or shined a light on the harsh realities of our world and socio-political climate. Robbery, serial murder, police/political corruption, racism, mental illness, drug addiction, sex addiction, war, extramarital affairs, spousal abuse, child abuse, rape...the list goes on. Think about the subject matter and main characters of many recent serialized TV series -- Breaking Bad, Euphoria, House of Cards, Ozark, Orange is the New Black, Dexter, Hannibal, Peaky Blinders, Bates Motel, etc. This is nothing new. People can be inspired to emulate ANYTHING they seen in film or on TV.

I understand that there are people like Arthur Fleck out there in the real world. People who are mentally ill and have done bad things, or want to do bad things someday. It has been happening for decades and seems like it will always be happening in our country. But should movies never address or depict this reality? We're not talking about a movie like The Hunt about conservatives and liberals hunting each other with machine guns. Joker seems to be using an iconic (and super evil) VILLIAN to paint a picture of a man with mental illness, a character study that digs at the root of what might lead people like this to commit acts of evil, and a story told from a deranged person's perspective.

Whether the film is truly great or not, I do appreciate that Phillips chose to approach the film in this way.

 

[Hollis Mason]

I don't care about the RT "score" and don't care if the film gets negative reviews. What bothers me are the handful of reviews that seem to be negative due to the possible "real world implications" and worrying about what people who see the film may or may not do. The EW review (or non-review) is the prime example. Other than praising Phoenix, that review barely even discusses or evaluates the quality of the film itself, instead mostly pondering the real-world aftermath and suggesting the film is simply too scary and realistic. It seems like some critics couldn't or wouldn't bring themselves to simply evaluate the effectiveness of the film itself due to the subject matter.

I understand the social climate we are now living in, especially with all of the horrible acts of violence that have taken place recently (which is technically nothing new for America). But it's almost like some people have forgotten that many of the best films of all time are raw, hard-hitting, R-rated dramas focused around morally abhorrent characters and/or dark, realistic subject matter. (The Godfather!!!)

Art imitates life, and many great films have mirrored or shined a light on the harsh realities of our world and socio-political climate. Robbery, serial murder, police/political corruption, racism, mental illness, drug addiction, sex addiction, war, extramarital affairs, spousal abuse, child abuse, rape...the list goes on. Think about the subject matter and main characters of many recent serialized TV series -- Breaking Bad, Euphoria, House of Cards, Ozark, Orange is the New Black, Dexter, Hannibal, Peaky Blinders, Bates Motel, etc. This is nothing new. People can be inspired to emulate ANYTHING they seen in film or on TV.

I understand that there are people like Arthur Fleck out there in the real world. People who are mentally ill and have done bad things, or want to do bad things someday. It has been happening for decades and seems like it will always be happening in our country. But should movies never address or depict this reality? We're not talking about a movie like The Hunt about conservatives and liberals hunting each other with machine guns. Joker seems to be using an iconic (and super evil) VILLIAN to paint a picture of a man with mental illness, a character study that digs at the root of what might lead people like this to commit acts of evil, and a story told from a deranged person's perspective.

Whether the film is truly great or not, I do appreciate that Phillips chose to approach the film in this way.

That EW review is insane. She practically said "This movie is well crafted, well acted, and well done. It's bad, btw."

 

[Orb]

Don't forget "We're not gonna grade this movie....but it's rotten anyways."

 

[Hollis Mason]

But the fact that it's at 77% and still has a 7.9 score shows that the people that liked it, LIKED it. I think it will end similar to Wolf of Wall Street.

 

[Arachnerd]

They use the song Rock n Roll by Gary Glitter. Don’t know what’s more offensive: they used a song by a convicted child predator or that it’s glam rock.

The heck are you talking about?

 

[kguillou]

I have no doubt i’m gonna dig this movie my only concern is rewatchability. Some movies are amazing but their subject matter is so disturbing that you dont necessarily wanna revisit it anytime soon. I....hope the dark content isnt overbearing and has a charm and cool style to it like Taxi Driver or Mean Streets.

 

[Iceman]

I’ve heard enough to be very optimistic about this. I didn’t really have much idea how the film would turn out but I was always confident Joaquin could give us an amazing Joker.

 

[Rod]

Relax, people.

Today has been quite calm, so far, with most reviews being positive.

Not sure if just coincidence, but most of the negative reviews came from a single day (Tuesday), same as Venice, with most of the negative ones droped in same day and then we got consecutive positive ones.

Wonder if WB is at play behind the scenes here, organizing in a way most of the critics that might have a contrarian view to the project stay concentrated and not too spread in between too many days apart.

 

[Hollis Mason]

That Golden Lion makes me feel so good, tho. And the fact the American Psycho director (one of my favorite films ever) loved it.

 

[The Guard]

All those disclaimers make me want to do it more. I'm all for a movie about a villain that doesn't pull its punches.

And it's all well and good to be concerned about people being inspired to violence by a movie, book, or other piece of art.

But artists shouldn't stop making art or telling stories that explore those types of concepts because of that possibility. They should try to be responsible with their portrayals of those concepts but context matters, especially in fiction. When you're making a movie about a guy who dresses like a clown and commits mass murders (a movie that has been described as a horror movie), I think you get some leeway when it comes to "being responsible". Especially if you're using that character and his issues (mental illness) as a metaphor for something else, as would appear to be the case. We shall see.

 

[Hammer!]

Difference is that was 2012, before the twitter bloggers arrived, and people started to be so paranoid about things, Before people like that Time critic started to get attention. at least compared to this point. And this movie was already being hated before the screenings. Also, this film got VERY much praise. That's why it got the Golden Lion.

I have read all the negative reviews in RT and MC and i can tell you it's a very different situation, and a very different topic this movie touches. But like i said, the only place this is getting so controversial it's America, cuz here in Europe it's getting praise from everywhere.

Also, the fact this won Golden Lion should say a lot. That's not a small prize in any way. This film got very much praise, but also very much hate.

You've continually brought up that this film has won the 'Golden Lion' about 40 times this week. Be honest, have you ever heard of a 'Golden Lion' before this week? Just curious.

 

[Hollis Mason]

You've continually brought up that this film has won the 'Golden Lion' about 40 times this week. Be honest, have you ever heard of a 'Golden Lion' before this week? Just curious.

Excuse me if i sound so annoying, but it's just that it really surprised me. But yeah, actually i have. I'm from Spain and i work in a newspaper that talks about this kind of topics: festivals, movies, etc. Look for it. It's called El Pais. I'm there since 2008. Never got a chance to attend to Venice, but i went to Sitges last year.

 

[TheSmoothKnight]

Dang, just saw that Once Upon A time in Hollywood got 495 reviews. I’m sure we’re going to see similar number of reviews, maybe more.

 

[Orb]

I hope the final percentage settles at 69% with 420 reviews.

 

[Hammer!]

Excuse me if i sound so annoying, but it's just that it really surprised me. But yeah, actually i have. I'm from Spain and i work in a newspaper that talks about this kind of topics: festivals, movies, etc. and more things. Look for it. It's called El Pais. I'm there since 2008. Never got a chance to attend to Venice, but i went to Sitges last year.

lol your not annoying I was genuinely curious. I'd gather the vast majority of people haven't, myself included.

 

[Hammer!]

I hope the final percentage settles at 69% with 420 reviews.

I'm pulling for a 59% with a 7.0 average. The chaos would be very fitting to the lead character.

 

[Travesty]

Wait....what's going on? Why is everyone upset? I just checked the RT score, and its at 78%. That's not a bad score, at all.

Am I missing something? What happened here?

 

[TheSmoothKnight]

Back to 78%, 80 reviews

 

[TMP98]

Back to 80%, 80 reviews

78%, but another 10/10 was added. People who like this movie love it

 

[Hollis Mason]

Wait....what's going on? Why is everyone upset? I just checked the RT score, and its at 78%. That's not a bad score, at all.

Am I missing something? What happened here?

It's a funny world we live in.

 

[Hollis Mason]

It should be certified fresh anytime soon.

 

[Flint Marko]

Wait....what's going on? Why is everyone upset? I just checked the RT score, and its at 78%. That's not a bad score, at all.

Am I missing something? What happened here?

The top critics are being a lot harsher on this movie than expected.

Doesn’t really matter much considering only Uber-nerds (like us) check that specific metric on RT. This is still gonna be a massive hit on every front.

 

[The Guard]

I would think all the controversy would make more people want to see it, not less.

 

[TheSmoothKnight]

Oh, another 3/5 fresh review. I hate how inconsistent that score is on RT.