Joker "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Part 2

[BaelaTargaryen]

The Guardian published their list of the 100 best films of the 21st century. The Dark Knight is on this list at number 98.

The 100 best films of the 21st century

The only comic book movie to make the cut is Christopher Nolan’s genre masterpiece: fatalist, bracing and forever the legacy of Heath Ledger, posthumously awarded an Oscar for his terrifying performance.

 

[JimThompson]

I am not completely sure it didn't work on Batman. IMO, it could be interpreted that Batman laughing at Jokers joke at the end could be interpreted as him snapping and going crazy. The way the police lights are turned off and we are left looking at the dark puddle at the end may have supposed to symbolize Batman being consumed by the darkness and finally killing Joker. It should also be noted that in this particular story, Joker chose Gordon as his white knight that had to be made an example of and not Batman, which perhaps suggests that Joker and maybe even Alan Moore himself views Gordon as the better person and as incorruptible, whereas Batman is corruptible so putting him in Gordon's position would not get the point across as clearly if the plan succeeded. Also, the story was originally set in an alternate universe and only became canon afterwards due to its popularity.

Some interpretations of Jokers joke that I like are that it shows how Joker believes they will never trust each other which I believe he tells us when the character in the joke representing him says to the character representing Batman in the joke "You'd turn it off when I was half-way across", referring to the light beam that Batmans representative thinks Jokers representative can walk across.

IMO, this also reveals that Joker thinks Batman is also crazy due to the person in the joke representing Batman believing someone can walk across a beam from a torch, and also, how Joker views Batman as similar to him "two guys in a lunatic asylum", which would possible mean that Joker thinks that Batman is ill-suited to rehabilitate him.

I believe that the joke reveals a significant difference Joker thinks there is between the two and that it is that Batman can blend in with society when he wants to, hence the person representing him in the joke finding it easy to jump from one roof to the other so he can escape into the town, but Joker, due to him being disfigured and permanently looking like a clown, is not able to do that, hence the person represrenting him in the joke has trouble doing the same.

I am not saying I 100% believe that Batman killed the Joker in the story, but things like this, as subtle as they may be, make me believe that it is a possibility. Grant Morrison, who IMO is a great writer and an extremely clever person also believes that Batman killed the Joker in the story.

That is a fascinating take I had not considered. Thanks for sharing it.

 

[Slade W]

That is a fascinating take I had not considered. Thanks for sharing it.

Thank you for your kind words. You are welcome .

 

[Maze]

Oh BOIIII. Peter Travers is one of my fav critics so hearing him say that hypes me even more.

Ditto, He is one of my fave too,

 

[Gee]

Hell yes, didn’t know that.

Chernobyl is easily one of the best TV shows in recent memory, I highly recommend it, and the soundtrack plays a significant role in that. It’s nearly flawless.

How? It's from the writer of two Scary Movie and Hangover movies.

 

[FunkMiller]

These reviews are cracking me up the its a well made movie, but it’s too dark, and violent. John Wick 3 ( I love this movie) sitting at 90%. Interesting.

You know, it could just be that John Wick 3 might be a better movie. Until you’ve seen it, you can’t tell.

 

[Holy Slapper]

Turns out gun violence is OK so long as it's fetishized.

More like over the top or cartoonish. I mean, there's no real life aim bots. Wick is shooting like he's using one.

 

[Gothamsknight]

The Guardian published their list of the 100 best films of the 21st century. The Dark Knight is on this list at number 98.

The 100 best films of the 21st century

Absolutely worth it in every sense.

 

[Hollis Mason]

You know, it could just be that John Wick 3 might be a better movie. Until you’ve seen it, you can’t tell.

That's not the point. Not even close. People act like glorifying murder is something so wrong to show in movies but keep praising movies like John WIck where the character literally murders a LOT of people and evveryone glorifies it. The point is violence already exists in media, but for some reason people act like this movie is the first one to do it. Just read the reviews. People glorify John Wick yet i don't see anyone screaming like they do with this movie. Of course there may be the difference that John Wick movies are action blockbusters while this one actually tries to be realistic. But from what i know based in the script and the leaks...

Spoiler

John does far more messed up **** than the Joker does in this movie. And kills a lot more people. And this movie doesn't even glorify it at all. At least not like John Wick movies do.

And if you think people don't like this movie because it's quality, i invite you to read the reviews instead of just watching the score. It's just insane.

Also, the same idiots crying for this movie didn't say **** when idiots started to call Killmonger the real hero of Black Panther or some stupid **** like that. I bet many of them even agreed.

 

[Boom]

I dunno. Just seems odd to me that people would cry foul over the depiction of gun violence in one movie, but then cheer it on in another. Either accept it at entertainment value across the board, or don't condone any of it. Personally, I would argue that something like John Wick is worse, because it glamorizes and fetishizes gun violence. It makes it look cool. Movies like Joker and The Departed (to name another example) at least depict gun violence as horrifying - which is as it should be.

But again, I recognize that this is all entertainment, so it's really not a question of what is and is not acceptable. They both are.

 

[TheSmoothKnight]

With the debate of gun control in the America. Its a surprise how the gun violence in John Wick 3 was celebrated for the coolness, and comic book like scenes etc. gets a pass but with the Joker it’s a problem for people.

 

[TMP98]

The Guardian published their list of the 100 best films of the 21st century. The Dark Knight is on this list at number 98.

The 100 best films of the 21st century

Agree with them on their number 1, There Will Be Blood is an all-timer for me.

 

[Boom]

Team America: World Police at #10 is certainly a choice.

 

[Dr.]

The Guardian published their list of the 100 best films of the 21st century. The Dark Knight is on this list at number 98.

The 100 best films of the 21st century

Paddington 2 (#69) beats TDK.

 

[Holy Slapper]

We should email in about the Certified Fresh thing. This film met the objective requirements.

Might have something to do with the release date being several weeks away. Ad Astra opens a week from now and is at 85% Fresh and doesn't have the Certified Fresh rating either. Meanwhile Loro does and that also opens a week from now. Maybe they really don't give a **** there.

 

[dhandler01]

I am sure they have their reasons and I doubt it is anything nefarious.

 

[Hollis Mason]

I wonder where did they get that Peter Traver's quotes for the Tv-spot. I can't find his review.

 

[TMP98]

Paddington 2 (#69) beats TDK.

Paddington 2 beats most movies. TED being so high was weird, that movie's pretty bad

 

[TheFuture]

Interesting to see Norman Wilner, who was originally sited as a BBC critic on his RT review, has been changed to Now Toronto. Either that or they've registered a rotten review twice.

Anyway still seeing plenty of rotten 3/5s and even a fresh 2.5/5. What a ludicrous site.

 

[TMP98]

Interesting to see Norman Wilner, who was originally sited as a BBC critic on his RT review, has been changed to Now Toronto. Either that or they've registered a rotten review twice.

Anyway still seeing plenty of rotten 3/5s and even a fresh 2.5/5. What a ludicrous site.

Norman Willner is a NowToronto critic, Nicholas Barber is the BBC critic

 

[FunkMiller]

I dunno. Just seems odd to me that people would cry foul over the depiction of gun violence in one movie, but then cheer it on in another. Either accept it at entertainment value across the board, or don't condone any of it. Personally, I would argue that something like John Wick is worse, because it glamorizes and fetishizes gun violence. It makes it look cool. Movies like Joker and The Departed (to name another example) at least depict gun violence as horrifying - which is as it should be.

But again, I recognize that this is all entertainment, so it's really not a question of what is and is not acceptable. They both are.

Of course context is key. The John Wick films are ultra violent fantasies, featuring fetishised violence, presented in a very outlandish, unrealistic way. Whereas this Joker film is apparently very much representing gun violence as a dirty, horrific thing. Possibly one movie avoids the scrutiny of the other because of its tone, meaning and intent?

Also, I’m not really getting the impression that the criticisms of Joker are necessarily aimed at (no pun intended) the way gun violence is depicted, but more the motivation for the character to take part in it. I think people are taking issue with the way Joker’s descent into evil is being partially depicted as something justified. He’s positioned as some kind of lone wolf fantasist - railing against the unjust society he finds himself in... a little man who snaps when he can’t take it any more, and becomes a violent psychopath as a way of redressing the balance. This skirts uncomfortably close to some it seems, to the motivations of mass killers that have plagued the US. At least, that’s the way it seems from the reviews. I’ve not seen the film yet, so can’t personally comment.

 

[TMP98]

75% with 93 reviews now

 

[Pennywise]

 

[PacificBoy]

Of course context is key. The John Wick films are ultra violent fantasies, featuring fetishised violence, presented in a very outlandish, unrealistic way. Whereas this Joker film is apparently very much representing gun violence as a dirty, horrific thing. Possibly one movie avoids the scrutiny of the other because of its tone, meaning and intent?

Also, I’m not really getting the impression that the criticisms of Joker are necessarily aimed at (no pun intended) the way gun violence is depicted, but more the motivation for the character to take part in it. I think people are taking issue with the way Joker’s descent into evil is being partially depicted as something justified. He’s positioned as some kind of lone wolf fantasist - railing against the unjust society he finds himself in... a little man who snaps when he can’t take it any more, and becomes a violent psychopath as a way of redressing the balance. This skirts uncomfortably close to some it seems, to the motivations of mass killers that have plagued the US. At least, that’s the way it seems from the reviews. I’ve not seen the film yet, so can’t personally comment.

Yes, even from the trailers alone you can tell the violence is just one part of the story being told. It's an intersection of mental illness, class warfare and a failing society. John Wick is closer to a movie like Equilibrium in terms of conversation while Joker is in the company of Taxi Driver and The King of Comedy, so there's nothing wrong with the controversy and scrutiny since it invites it.

 

[Hammer!]

This movie does look good, but count me in the camp that wishes the Joker had a sense of humor that made you laugh. Maybe not the right movie for what they were going for (the whole Incel angle) but I love Joker when he's filming television ads, running down grocery store aisles with a cart and kicking his legs up in excitement as if parodying the advertisement industry.

"You'd never hit a guy with glasses now, would ya" and Joker's birthday present to Bats in 'Christmas with the Joker' are what ultimately makes me want to see this character, not him bludgeoning Robin with a Crowbar or paralyzing Barabara Gordon.