Joker "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Part 2

[Gothamsknight]

Those are awesome

 

[Rocanrol]

What is the real Gotham ? The one from Burton ? The one from Nolan ? one particular version from the comics ? You're wrong, buddy. "A real Gotham", there's no such thing. The way i see it, it's close to the gotham from Year One, which Miller took inspiration from Scorsese movie.

I never said “real Gotham”, but was referring to the atmosphere, which I already said it was fine, except for Arkham Asylum, but I don’t have much problem with that.

Now, a real Joker ? Same, there's no such thing too. All the interpretation has little in common to each other. Joaquin Phoenix IS the Joker as was Nicholson, Hamill, Ledger, Romero, even this *****ebag from Suicide Squad, yo !

It’s like you get the words but not the meaning. I said it was entirely a matter of opinion, but I meant a character two-dimensional, too flat to be able to portray the whole depth that is the Joker. Do you want me to say is a bad Joker? Ok. When a portrayal comes out flawed, either because of the story, the dialogue or characterization, and taking into account that this character has a 70 year old history, is not a good thing. Ledger’s Joker is a great characterization, a thinker, a tinker, a killer, a madman and a clown.
That is why is regarded as the best. In comparison Nicholsons falls a bit flat, and Leto’s is a deep dive into a **** maelstrom.

Yeah, it's an original story with character you know and some new one, and that's good, bro. The Joker is one of the rare comic book character to allow a movie like that because there's no real past for the Joker. Y'know the "i have multiple past" stuff. So this son of a *****, Todd Phillips, is free to do what he want. You just have to be open mind like he said. This Joker is a real Joker movie so enjoy

Oh but I don’t care about the story per se, because the Joker is an unreliable narrator. I don’t care the mama’s boy “incel” aspect (I thought it was a nice wink to the Bates), but the lack of any other trait or aspect to the character. The characterization of the Waynes is a bastardization of the mythos, only to fulfill the agenda of the story. That I do not like, because it isn’t necessary. Even as a wink to the audience it’s just cheap.

Well, this is getting tedious, yo! Feels like I’m repeating myself a lot buddy, so feel free to read again any of my post about it if you need any other clarification, bro.

 

[TMP98]

Looks like Joaquin's award campaign is about to be cut short:
"A24 is in final negotiations for an untitled drama that will be the next film for Joker star Joaquin Phoenix. The movie has been written and will be directed by 20th Century Woman and Beginners filmmaker Mike Mills.
Production begins in the fall, and the deal is a coup for A24 to land the first film vehicle for Phoenix coming off his tour-de-force performance in the Todd Phillips-directed Joker."
Joaquin Phoenix’s First Post-‘Joker’ Movie In Works, Lands At A24 – Deadline

 

[Boom]

Looks like Joaquin's award campaign is about to be cut short:
"A24 is in final negotiations for an untitled drama that will be the next film for Joker star Joaquin Phoenix. The movie has been written and will be directed by 20th Century Woman and Beginners filmmaker Mike Mills.
Production begins in the fall, and the deal is a coup for A24 to land the first film vehicle for Phoenix coming off his tour-de-force performance in the Todd Phillips-directed Joker."
Joaquin Phoenix’s First Post-‘Joker’ Movie In Works, Lands At A24 – Deadline

You missed the juicier quote.

Phoenix’s performance in becoming the supervillain from the DC Batman universe has been widely touted at the fall festivals — it won the Golden Lion at Venice — and he is considered an Oscar Best Actor front-runner for a role that is as physically and emotionally profound as I can remember seeing since Daniel Day-Lewis in My Left Foot.

 

[FatRobin]

New official posters:

These are definitely my favs.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I'm always a sucker for artwork that includes Joker on a Joker card. Thats my fave one of these!

 

[antsman41]

Mills and Phoenix in A24 hands, hell yeah.

 

[TMP98]

You missed the juicier quote.

Yeah, I have him winning after the Venice stuff; even with this being somewhat polarizing. Him or Driver, and the latter can't campaign either since he'll be promoting Star Wars during that time.

 

[Rodimus]

I never said “real Gotham”, but was referring to the atmosphere, which I already said it was fine, except for Arkham Asylum, but I don’t have much problem with that.



It’s like you get the words but not the meaning. I said it was entirely a matter of opinion, but I meant a character two-dimensional, too flat to be able to portray the whole depth that is the Joker. Do you want me to say is a bad Joker? Ok. When a portrayal comes out flawed, either because of the story, the dialogue or characterization, and taking into account that this character has a 70 year old history, is not a good thing. Ledger’s Joker is a great characterization, a thinker, a tinker, a killer, a madman and a clown.
That is why is regarded as the best. In comparison Nicholsons falls a bit flat, and Leto’s is a deep dive into a **** maelstrom.



Oh but I don’t care about the story per se, because the Joker is an unreliable narrator. I don’t care the mama’s boy “incel” aspect (I thought it was a nice wink to the Bates), but the lack of any other trait or aspect to the character. The characterization of the Waynes is a bastardization of the mythos, only to fulfill the agenda of the story. That I do not like, because it isn’t necessary. Even as a wink to the audience it’s just cheap.

Well, this is getting tedious, yo! Feels like I’m repeating myself a lot buddy, so feel free to read again any of my post about it if you need any other clarification, bro.

You are right, you are getting tedious.

 

[Holy Slapper]

Another negative, dropping the score back to 76%.

 

[hellblazer103]

Oh but I don’t care about the story per se, because the Joker is an unreliable narrator. I don’t care the mama’s boy “incel” aspect (I thought it was a nice wink to the Bates), but the lack of any other trait or aspect to the character. The characterization of the Waynes is a bastardization of the mythos, only to fulfill the agenda of the story. That I do not like, because it isn’t necessary. Even as a wink to the audience it’s just cheap.

What else is missing, exactly? A twisted sense of humor that only makes sense to him and not to those around him, a desire to disrupt order and influence chaos, obviously the clown/comedian angle, a forced smile/laughter that he cannot shake off, a sense of narcissism and entitlement... All of which have been present in many versions of the character. As far as I can see, the only thing that seems to be missing is the affinity for playing cards (which is indeed a bit of an issue but I hope there ends up being SOME semblance of that and I turn out to be wrong on it but if not, I guess it ain't the worst thing in the world)

This also isn't the first time the Waynes have been portrayed as secretly corrupt. The Telltale games take that angle as well . This is, as has been mentioned a thousand times, an alternate reality after all. Of course a film with Joker as the protagonist will paint the opposite end of the spectrum as the "bad guys" because that's how Joker would see them.

 

[FunkMiller]

Mills and Phoenix in A24 hands, hell yeah.

A24 really are doing an amazing job of keeping independent, interesting original cinema alive.

 

[Rocanrol]

You are right, you are getting tedious.

What a sensitive boy. Bad man made you feel angry? Lol

If you can’t handle an opinion don’t bother being in a forum kiddo.

What else is missing, exactly? A twisted sense of humor that only makes sense to him and not to those around him, a desire to disrupt order and influence chaos, obviously the clown/comedian angle, a forced smile/laughter that he cannot shake off, a sense of narcissism and entitlement... All of which have been present in many versions of the character. As far as I can see, the only thing that seems to be missing is the affinity for playing cards (which is indeed a bit of an issue but I hope there ends up being SOME semblance of that and I turn out to be wrong on it but if not, I guess it ain't the worst thing in the world)

This also isn't the first time the Waynes have been portrayed as secretly corrupt. The Telltale games take that angle as well . This is, as has been mentioned a thousand times, an alternate reality after all. Of course a film with Joker as the protagonist will paint the opposite end of the spectrum as the "bad guys" because that's how Joker would see them.

"The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Part 2

"The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Part 2

And regarding the Waynes, I personally hate how the TTG did them, it felt super cheap and comicbooky, but I understand that they did that to connect Bruce, Harvey and Maroni. Unnecessary nevertheless.

But it still doesn’t seem right, being a far cry from their characterization in the mythos. They were the ones that set the foundations of Bruce psyche.

And all this perversion of the character is just to fulfill the films agenda of what exactly? An opposing force to the Joker? I thought society was that. So the Waynes are personally involved with Arthur, and society is raging against the Waynes too? Unnecessary to me.

It’s like “Occupy Wall Street + Taxi Driver + King of Comedy + clown motif - Batman = Joker”. I don’t like that formula to describe a Joker story. I don’t hate it but it feels like an underachiever regarding story and characterization.

It doesn’t crisp my hair like TDK did, when I started lurking this forum for the first time as a viewer, years before I created an account.

 

[howdoesbaneeat]

Guys don't worry so much about the RT scores or if it's certified fresh or whatever. Lots more reviews to come, still 2+ weeks away, who knows what happens, could drop to 60. This movie was never intended to get all positive reactions, it's inherently controversial, bold, dark, inspired by modern problems in a real way that's genuinely disturbing. 75% for something like this is really good. American Psycho got like 68% and now it's a modern classic. Clockwork Orange, Taxi Driver - this stuff is always more controversial on release, then once they start finding their audience or revisited with hindsight they become revered. Take comfort knowing a majority of critics don't just like it, but are praising the hell out of it. Most of us are gonna love it, it'll have huge box office, fair award consideration, draw all kinds of debate, and change the conversation forever around the genre.

 

[metaphysician]

Still better than Metacritic. At least they can decide if a review is positive or negative which is the main point of the site. Metacritic is worse because of the varying scoring system or lack of by critics. It skews the system when you lump together review systems with 4 and 5 star no star systems.

Because RT's whole system is just simple math, blaming the site for that is a not very logical.

Not only does Metacritic have to convert ( arbitrarily ) each score into a percentile equivalent, which introduces a ton of added error. . . but they also apply a weighting factor to each reviewer, giving each reviewer more or less weight. Based on completely opaque rules.

Rotten Tomatoes is absolutely better than Metacritic. Metacritic pretends to greater precision than it actually has. Minor arguments about whether a given critics rating is "actually" positive, you can be reasonably certain that when RT says 80% of critics recommend a movie, that 80% of critics *actually do recommend that movie*. You can argue that a critic *should* recommend a movie based on their critique, but that is arguing with the critic, not with RT.

 

[Kane52630]

 

[Hollis Mason]

Not only does Metacritic have to convert ( arbitrarily ) each score into a percentile equivalent, which introduces a ton of added error. . . but they also apply a weighting factor to each reviewer, giving each reviewer more or less weight. Based on completely opaque rules.

Rotten Tomatoes is absolutely better than Metacritic. Metacritic pretends to greater precision than it actually has. Minor arguments about whether a given critics rating is "actually" positive, you can be reasonably certain that when RT says 80% of critics recommend a movie, that 80% of critics *actually do recommend that movie*. You can argue that a critic *should* recommend a movie based on their critique, but that is arguing with the critic, not with RT.

I thought each critic did the first part. Didn't know that fact. Changes my view about MC a little

 

[Orb]

Two great interviews





I like how frank Phoenix is lol. Him saying his Joker would have a "surge of excitement" over meeting Batman is really all I need.

 

[Gee]

Any fellow Canucks know if Cineplex will make the tickets available tomorrow?

 

[TMP98]

The BBC review is a negative again, wtf

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Two great interviews





I like how frank Phoenix is lol. Him saying his Joker would have a "surge of excitement" over meeting Batman is really all I need.

Awesome! Thanks for sharing! Where is this from?

 

[Gothamsknight]

Two great interviews





I like how frank Phoenix is lol. Him saying his Joker would have a "surge of excitement" over meeting Batman is really all I need.

Loving these interviews!

 

[hellblazer103]

"The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Part 2

"The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Part 2

And regarding the Waynes, I personally hate how the TTG did them, it felt super cheap and comicbooky, but I understand that they did that to connect Bruce, Harvey and Maroni. Unnecessary nevertheless.

But it still doesn’t seem right, being a far cry from their characterization in the mythos. They were the ones that set the foundations of Bruce psyche.

And all this perversion of the character is just to fulfill the films agenda of what exactly? An opposing force to the Joker? I thought society was that. So the Waynes are personally involved with Arthur, and society is raging against the Waynes too? Unnecessary to me.

It’s like “Occupy Wall Street + Taxi Driver + King of Comedy + clown motif - Batman = Joker”. I don’t like that formula to describe a Joker story. I don’t hate it but it feels like an underachiever regarding story and characterization.

It doesn’t crisp my hair like TDK did, when I started lurking this forum for the first time as a viewer, years before I created an account.

What exactly are early pages of this thread supposed to prove? Because I don't see much in them.

Are you fine with the Flashpoint version of Thomas Wayne becoming a murdering alcoholic Batman and Martha being a child murdering Joker? Seems to take it even further.

Know why both versions are fine? Oh, right . Because they're both ALTERNATE. REALITIES.

 

[Rocanrol]

What exactly are early pages of this thread supposed to prove? Because I don't see much in them.

Well, this is getting tedious, yo! Feels like I’m repeating myself a lot buddy, so feel free to read again any of my post about it if you need any other clarification, bro.

Are you fine with the Flashpoint version of Thomas Wayne becoming a murdering alcoholic Batman and Martha being a child murdering Joker? Seems to take it even further.

Know why both versions are fine? Oh, right . Because they're both ALTERNATE. REALITIES.

Eh... It's an entertaining thought, the gist of Flashpoint is that they go actively against the myth, to subvert certain expectations. And thankfully they go back to "normal".

But no, I wouldn't want a Flashpoint universe solo movie. That would be wasted potential on a not so good story. As a tie-in Flash movie in a connected universe? Perhaps.

As a post scriptum, I would like to add that there is no cristallized rule wheter I like something or not. It depends 100% on the story and characterization.

Batman: Year One feels like it should stay in cannon, as an incredible origin story.
TDKR feels like the natural progression of the Batman mythos.
Kingdom Come, its a great story that I love, to me is the ultimate JL story.
Superman All Stars clicks with me too, just feel so "supermany". A great story that feels part of the mythos.

 

[Orb]

Expect a flood of mainstream reviews soon