Joker "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Part 2

[dhandler01]

He isn't. It was debunked.

 

[BaelaTargaryen]

Leading Neurocriminologist Considers Joaquin Phoenix’s Joker “a Great Educational Tool”

 

[Gee]

Leading Neurocriminologist Considers Joaquin Phoenix’s Joker “a Great Educational Tool”

 

[The Shape]

Leading Neurocriminologist Considers Joaquin Phoenix’s Joker “a Great Educational Tool”

Very interesting.

 

[8ulk87]

LOL. Even if Joker starts dropping 50% everywhere 800+ is absolutely locked. More than likely 300+ in North America happens and decent chance it surpasses both BvS and Squad. 1 billion is unlikely but no reason why it shouldnt finish with 930-950M WW.

There is no reason to LOL.

My range 760-850 means a 805 mil average. Im clearly expecting a 800+ final gross.
Plus i was one of the few that voted a 800 mil gross before the movie opened.

Also im betting you 930 mil isnt happening.

 

[-JKR-]

Well unless they ban it from sporting events it won't really make a difference. To be honest I had no idea nor cared who sung that song until today.

The LA Times confirmed that Gary Glitter DOES NOT get ANY royalties from the any use of the song. The owner of the rights (Universal Publishing) do.

 

[Ravagex]

This movie made me wonder...Can they can pull the same devastating effect for any other Batman villains out there? Or relying a story on society and mental ilness was more important than character itself? Freeze, Riddler, Scarecrow and Bane all has potential to do so.

 

[-JKR-]

Todd Phillip's idea for a DC Black Label with a more character-driven approach is a great one, but it would be a mistake to just take other Batman villains and try to tell their stories in the same vein. I wouldn't mind a "Gotham Central" movie, or a movie based on Tom King's "Mister Miracle" run.

 

[squeekness]

Leading Neurocriminologist Considers Joaquin Phoenix’s Joker “a Great Educational Tool”

What crossed my mind was that bullies should be put on notice that their victims might fight back in ways they don't expect.

 

[dhandler01]

There is no reason to LOL.

My range 760-850 means a 805 mil average. Im clearly expecting a 800+ final gross.
Plus i was one of the few that voted a 800 mil gross before the movie opened.

Also im betting you 930 mil isnt happening.

While I agree with you people who follow it more than I seem to think it is possible so who knows.

 

[Binker]

Sharing

 

[Kane52630]

Once again they always forget Romero.

 

[TheGuy]

Once again they always forget Romero.

Me when I see Letoker hedged with Ledger, Phoenix and Nicholson.

 

[DA_Champion]

Leading Neurocriminologist Considers Joaquin Phoenix’s Joker “a Great Educational Tool”

 

[geosphere]

You guys need to watch this! This is one of the best theory videos I have seen. Like it really shows just how masterfully this movie was made. The way this video breaks things down really makes you think of things you haven't even considered before.

 

[mclay18]

I finally saw this today. And I didn't like it.

Phoenix was excellent, but I felt that Todd Phillips and co-writer Scott Silver vilified mental illness (rather than it being something to empathize, treat and understand). And they don't enhance the mythical comic book character of the Joker with this backstory, it detracts if anything.

I think it's a pretty divisive film.

 

[Hollis Mason]

I finally saw this today. And I didn't like it.

Phoenix was excellent, but I felt that Todd Phillips and co-writer Scott Silver vilified mental illness (rather than it being something to empathize, treat and understand). And they don't enhance the mythical comic book character of the Joker with this backstory, it detracts if anything.

I think it's a pretty divisive film.

I don't understan how can you "villify" mental illness. Mental illness itself is a pretty terrible thing, and one of the worst thing that can happen to someone. If nothing the movie shows what it truly is like, and how people treat others like monsters for that, and the terrible consequences that may have. Mental illness is nothing pretty in any way. IMO, this movie did an excellent job showing how bad can it affect somebody. They didn't make it tragic or dramatic, they made it sad and terrible, showing the ugly side of it, the side without pretty effects, which is exactly what it is like to people like Arthur Fleck to live with something as terrible as that.

I assure you, that's how people with severe mental illness act. That's the reason many feel scared of them. Movie is showing exactly what it is like without any boundaries. i understand that may be too much for some, but doesn't mean the movie is making mental ill people evil. If nothing, is showing how tragic the life of someone with mental illness can be due to people's ignorance and lack of empathy. If anything, i was actually surprised they had the balls to show all they did with so much realism.

 

[mclay18]

I don't understan how can you "villify" mental illness. Mental illness itself is a pretty terrible thing itself. If nothing the movie shows what it truly is like, and how people treat others like monsters for that, and the terrible consequences that may have. Mental illness is nothing pretty in any way. IMO, this movie did an excellent job showing how bad can it affect somebody. They didn't make it tragic or dramatic, they made it sad and terrible, which i exactly what it is to people like Arthur Fleck to live with something as terrible like that.

I'm not saying mental illness is pretty -- it's the exact opposite. Joker doesn't show much nuance or depth in how people address it... that's the problem I have. I came into this movie knowing full well WB and Phillips weren't going to Disney-ify the character either.

And by giving Joker this kind of 'realistic' backstory strips away the mystique and menace of the character. It doesn't add anything.

It feels hollow and empty.

 

[Hollis Mason]

I'm not saying mental illness is pretty -- it's the exact opposite. Joker doesn't show much nuance or depth in how people address it... that's the problem I have. I came into this movie knowing full well WB and Phillips weren't going to Disney-ify the character either.

And by giving Joker this kind of 'realistic' backstory strips away the mystique and menace of the character. It doesn't add anything.

It feels hollow and empty.

I think it shows it with a lot of nuance. It shows the ugly side, doesn't give you a long monologue about how bad it is, it just shows you and leaves you to choose what to do with all you have seen. You are showed how bad mental illness affects Arthur's life, you are showed how people make fun or don't understand him. You don't need anything else, because those are the biggest issues someone with mental illness lives. You also see how the system doesn't really care for this people. The movie shows you all that, but doesn't throw it at your face. It's like they took a random story from someone in real life. That's what i liked about the movie. It isn't giving you a message or solutions, it's just showing you the issues. Agree to disagree, i guess.

In your second point i just don't see a point. Making a standalone story that isn't connected to any other story is something DC has been doing for a long time with Elseworld stories. It doesn't "strip away" anything. The original Joker is still there, in the comics. It's just a small experiment and nothing else. There will be many other versions of Joker next. It doesn't have to add anything and it doesn't want to. That doesn't make the movie less good. If anything, it makes it even better, because at least this story tries to be different and original. Again, agree to disagree. I respect your opinion, ofc.

 

[The Guard]

I don't understand how anyone could take a blanket message about mental illness from this film, or believe that the film attempts to deliver one aside from perhaps that society is failing the mentally ill.

The film never, at any point, even remotely implies that Arthur is the "norm", or that everyone's experience of mental illness is like this, or any of that.

At all.

There are a couple of common "truths" mentioned about having mental illness, in terms of it often being a stigma, the way others expect you to behave, etc, but beyond that?

There's not really a blanket underlying message about those with mental illness to be found in the film. Nevermind that mental illness itself is also used as a metaphor within the film. It's not intended to be just mental illness, the film intersects mental illness with other struggles and makes a statement about our society, and the types of "illnesses" that are plaguing it.

 

[TheGuy]

Thematically, I find Joker more about class struggle than mental illness. Sure, Arthur is mentally unstable but his motives are clearly revenge and seeking a good life. Revenge can only be directed towards his oppressors (Murray Franklin and society as a whole) and seeking the good life through other characters (Sophie, Thomas Wayne, his mother and work as a clown). Mental illness is there as a defining trait of the character, but not his motives.

 

[Micromind]

Leading Neurocriminologist Considers Joaquin Phoenix’s Joker “a Great Educational Tool”

To those columnists who wrote articles such as these -

Opinion: Joaquin Phoenix's Joker makes a mockery of mental illness

 

[Micromind]

 

[Doc Samson]

It's also the reason why there's no singularly great Marvel film (I said it). Everything relies on what came before it for its greatness (Endgame, for example, in and of itself would have no impact).

I like your post but I will disagree here. I think being connected sometimes hinders the weaker movies. But the truly great MCU films (IW, IM1, Winter Soldier) stand on their own. I don't think you need to know anything about the stones to understand and enjoy Thanos and his mission. Obviously IM1 is the first and Winter Soldier is just a good film.

Honestly, if he's not going to actually be a full-blown Joker pitted against Batman, then as great as Phoenix was, I'd rather Joker be a one and done stand-alone. Just let the viewer have their own "choose your own adventure" interpretation of what comes next, whether he's just a guy named Arthur Fleck with a clown fetish in an elseworlds stand-alone where Batman never exists, whether he inspires "the real Joker", whether he goes on to be Full Joker fighting Batman, etc. Don't ruin the open-ended ambiguity with an underwhelming follow-up where he doesn't ascend fully into The Joker.

Agreed 100%. I'm actually surprised Joaquin seems open to a sequel, let alone losing 50+ pounds all over again when he swore he wouldn't do it anymore even before Joker.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Joker is one of those movies you need to watch on big screen. Cinematography is gorgeous.