The Dark Knight Rises The Joker sized elephant in the room

[Uroboric Forms]

I'm on board with no mention of the Joker. I was always a bit worried that TDKR would be like 'The Dark Knight, part II' and Batman Begins would be the bastard child thematically, visually, etc. It helps distinguish the films apart.

 

[Symbiotic]

I used to think a Joker reference had to happen. However, in the end it would have only drawn attention to the fact that he's not there.

Agreed. And this is how Nolan sees it. I'm at peace with it.

 

[Gianakin_]

Since the Joekr wasn't going to show up physicaclly in TDKR, I never cared if he'd be mentioned or not. Either way would've been fine by me.

 

[Billy the Poet]

Ignoring the Joker is a huge miss on Nolan's part in terms of his handling of the continuity in the trilogy.

I mean you have not only Dent, but even Scarecrow, Ras and the LoS (know its vital to the story) mentioned and depicted. But the Joker? Come on! You have to at least mention him somewhere. Give a nod to the audience and justice to the following of the previous movie's main spectacle carrier.

Although I do get the whole point about 8 years, but then why almost all villains from the past two films are there (ok, maybe except for Falcone). That's just odd.

I am sorry, but this truly makes little sense to me personally.

 

[Panthro]

The Joker not being mentioned is not a big deal to me.

 

[elgaz]

Not a big deal to me. It's been 8 years. The Joker was a big villain, yeah, but we have to imagine that Batman/Bruce Wayne has went through a lot of other things in those 8 years, so why would the story refer back to just that one guy?

Also, I can understand references to Dent and LOS as they have left a legacy of some kind which is still affecting the story - Dent's legacy was that Batman took the blame for his actions, so we have to assume he is still wanted by GPD at the start of TDKR. LOS's may have some tie to Bane, that's yet to be explained.

But the Joker? He was arrested at the end of TDK, and we have to assume he was locked up. That's it.

Ledger did an amazing job, but it was contained within 1 movie. I personally don't see any need to somehow namedrop or include him in TDKR simply for the sake of it. If it's not integral to the story, it shouldn't be there - judging by the cast, there'll be enough going on.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Light a ****ing candle and sing a song at the end of the film for him while we're at it. Nothing will ever take away the greatness of that he contributed in the last film...but this is a different film.

yeah...it's the sequel to what happened in the film before

 

[BatLobster]

Another thing that makes sense about it to me is that The Joker was such a nightmareish chapter for Gotham that everyone would eventually probably want to try and forget about him, Bruce Wayne included because of the extremely personal costs of his battle with him.

I'm sure his trial and sentencing and everything would have had a lot of media coverage, but once he got put away they'd be onto the next "hot" thing and eventually he'd fade away. Of course he'd probably have a few books written about him and stuff, but nothing where he would be name dropped on a daily basis but your average folk.

Also, Nolan's quote, "We didn't want to try and account for a real life tragedy"- to me this sounds like if Heath were alive they easily could have put him in the film, at least in a cameo capacity. But there's no sense in trying to remedy the loss of what could have been a very fun cameo with a passing mention. It would only serve to make the audience yearn for something they can't have.

 

[KalMart]

yeah...it's the sequel to what happened in the film before

Yep, and Batman, Alfred, Gordon and Fox are back. Joker isn't....and I guess they just couldn't find a place to fit in the 'Joker Jail Act'.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Even though it's been 8 years, I don't think Batman or anyone in Gotham would ever forget what the Joker did, as hard as they will to try and forget.

And the question remains... if they're not making it look like the was never even there, then how are they going to show that he was?

 

[Rodrigo90]

We already know what happened to the Joker, the Angry Video Game Nerd shoved all the crappy Batman games up his ass and he died. It's likely to get a mention in TDKR.

 

[The Joker]

Another thing that makes sense about it to me is that The Joker was such a nightmareish chapter for Gotham that everyone would eventually probably want to try and forget about him, Bruce Wayne included because of the extremely personal costs of his battle with him.

If they're all remembering Harvey Dent, then they're still remembering the era where he was most brave; standing up against the Joker, the guy who mutilated his face and killed his girlfriend.

When the Dent cover up comes out, how does Joker's name get completely omitted from that whole debacle when he was the one who corrupted Dent and he's the reason why Batman burdened himself with Dent's crimes; "The Joker cannot win".

I don't understand and never will why a mention of Joker's name would be bad for Heath's memory, or be out of context in this movie when the character's actions are still having consequences on the characters and events in this movie.

The official synopsis was Bruce is still recovering from the physical and mental trauma of his encounters with Joker and Dent in TDK.

“Rises is set eight years after the events of the Dark Knight. Gotham City is at peace and prospering, but Bruce Wayne is still recovering physically and emotionally from the tragic battles with the Joker and Harvey Dent.

http://www.unleashthefanboy.com/movies/more-from-the-cast-of-the-dark-knight-rises/8012

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

If they're all remembering Harvey Dent, then they're still remembering the era where he was most brave; standing up against the Joker, the guy who mutilated his face and killed his girlfriend.

When the Dent cover up comes out, how does Joker's name get completely omitted from that whole debacle when he was the one who corrupted Dent and he's the reason why Batman burdened himself with Dent's crimes; "The Joker cannot win".

I don't understand and never will why a mention of Joker's name would be bad for Heath's memory, or be out of context in this movie when the character's actions are still having consequences on the characters and events in this movie.

The official synopsis was Bruce is still recovering from the physical and mental trauma of his encounters with Joker and Dent in TDK.



http://www.unleashthefanboy.com/movies/more-from-the-cast-of-the-dark-knight-rises/8012

Yes, thank you, someone who can actually see the joker-sized elephant in the room.

Funny enough, you are the joker

 

[BatLobster]

Even though it's been 8 years, I don't think Batman or anyone in Gotham would ever forget what the Joker did, as hard as they will to try and forget.

And the question remains... if they're not making it look like the was never even there, then how are they going to show that he was?

Of course Bruce and Gordon will never forget The Joker. That's kind of what I was implying...The Joker's actions and Bruce's inability to stop them probably still weigh heavily on him. That doesn't mean they have to actually talk about him. Bruce probably wishes every day that he could've gone to the other address and saved Rachel, and curses The Joker in his head for the cruel trick that was played. But there's nothing to really say about it in the context of the film without turning him into a mope. TDK had no mention of his parents' death, which was the biggest tragedy of Batman Begins. Now TDKR will see Bruce in a place far removed from the tragedies of TDK, but of course the scars are there. It's all going to be implied, rather than spelled out for us in exposition (in before someone takes a dig at Nolan's exposition).

When the Dent cover up comes out, how does Joker's name get completely omitted from that whole debacle when he was the one who corrupted Dent and he's the reason why Batman burdened himself with Dent's crimes; "The Joker cannot win".

We'll just have to see how this plays out. Bane seems to be something of a propagandist in this film, so I'd imagine he's going to deliver that message in a way that perverts the reality of the situation for his own twisted agenda.

 

[KalMart]

Even though it's been 8 years, I don't think Batman or anyone in Gotham would ever forget what the Joker did, as hard as they will to try and forget.

And the question remains... if they're not making it look like the was never even there, then how are they going to show that he was?

No one's saying they forgot...he's just not mentioned or brought up in conversation. You could have a mob crime today in NYC and not bring up Vincent Gigante or Joseph Colombo.....it doesn't mean they never existed.

 

[Ryan]

I do see everyone's point on this and we are each entitled to our own feelings about it. I guess I just feel if your going to a do a third film and somehow to try tie in everything and all the charcters from the first 2 films, how do you ignore even a mention of the joker. I was completely fine with TDK not even mentioning the LOS or Ras. I'd also be completely fine if they didn't mention the Joker in TDKR. But again, if your going to tie in Ras, LOS, Scarecrow and Dent in this finale..why Mr. J. Not mentioning him won't ruin the movie for me, but I do find it a bit disappointing, which is probably why Nolan addressed this in Empire magazine as its on most people's minds (hence why they didn't ask if Ras, LOS, Scarecrow or Dent would be in the third).

 

[Infinity9999x]

If they're all remembering Harvey Dent, then they're still remembering the era where he was most brave; standing up against the Joker, the guy who mutilated his face and killed his girlfriend.

When the Dent cover up comes out, how does Joker's name get completely omitted from that whole debacle when he was the one who corrupted Dent and he's the reason why Batman burdened himself with Dent's crimes; "The Joker cannot win".

I don't understand and never will why a mention of Joker's name would be bad for Heath's memory, or be out of context in this movie when the character's actions are still having consequences on the characters and events in this movie.

The official synopsis was Bruce is still recovering from the physical and mental trauma of his encounters with Joker and Dent in TDK.



http://www.unleashthefanboy.com/movies/more-from-the-cast-of-the-dark-knight-rises/8012

I was thinking this as well. I don't see how you can talk about Harvey's fall and not reference the Joker in some way. It would seem extremely contrived.

 

[KalMart]

I was thinking this as well. I don't see how you can talk about Harvey's fall and not reference the Joker in some way. It would seem extremely contrived.

I do see everyone's point on this and we are each entitled to our own feelings about it. I guess I just feel if your going to a do a third film and somehow to try tie in everything and all the charcters from the first 2 films, how do you ignore even a mention of the joker. I was completely fine with TDK not even mentioning the LOS or Ras. I'd also be completely fine if they didn't mention the Joker in TDKR. But again, if your going to tie in Ras, LOS, Scarecrow and Dent in this finale..why Mr. J. Not mentioning him won't ruin the movie for me, but I do find it a bit disappointing, which is probably why Nolan addressed this in Empire magazine as its on most people's minds (hence why they didn't ask if Ras, LOS, Scarecrow or Dent would be in the third).

You have to figure in the eight years since, he's probably been brought up a lot already amongst Gotham....people who've seen the last movie know what was involved too. At this point in time, Dent's symbolism as a city hero is cemented without constantly having to go through the details that all of them have certainly stewed through plenty before. It probably won't even be noticeable with everything else that's going on in the movie.....unless a viewer is obsessing over hearing just one mention of Joker...and if that's the case, then they're probably not really watching the movie.

 

[Infinity9999x]

You have to figure in the eight years since, he's probably been brought up a lot already....people who've seen the last movie know what was involved too. At this point in time, Dent's symbolism as a cut hero is still intact without having to go through the details that all of them have certainly stewed through plenty before. It probably won't even be noticeable with everything else that's going on in the movie.....unless a viewer is obsessing over hearing just one mention of Joker...and if that's the case, then they're probably not really watching the movie.

I just think, from a storytelling perspective I can't imagine Bane bringing up Dent's fall, or possible scenes with Bruce discussing Harvey without at least referencing the Joker. I'm not talking about an in-depth conversation. But something as simple as "After what that monster did to Dent..." etc.

It would seem very strange to completely omit any reference to him, considering the Joker was the reason for Dent's fall, and Dent's fall seems to be a fairly prominent reference in TDKR.

 

[KalMart]

I just think, from a storytelling perspective I can't imagine Bane bringing up Dent's fall, or possible scenes with Bruce discussing Harvey without at least referencing the Joker. I'm not talking about an in-depth conversation. But something as simple as "After what that monster did to Dent..." etc.

It would seem very strange to completely omit any reference to him, considering the Joker was the reason for Dent's fall, and Dent's fall seems to be a fairly prominent reference in TDKR.

I'm sure that they have done it in a way that feels natural and compelling within the framework of what we'll be experiencing. If Joker isn't part of this story and not mentioned, don't take it so badly.

And it may be as simple as Bane saying..."...and is this what does it for you...a dead man..? Take control......" or the like. No biggie.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I'm sure that they have done it in a way that feels natural and compelling within the framework of what we'll be experiencing. If Joker isn't part of this story and not mentioned, don't take it so badly.

And it may be as simple as Bane saying..."...and is this what does it for you...a dead man..? Take control......" or the like. No biggie.

As long as it's written well I'll be fine with it. I was never expecting the Joker to be part of the third Batman film anyways. And it really does depend on how much they talk about Harvey. I would just expect a very brief reference to the Joker if they specifically address Harvey's fall from grace. But, like I said, if it's written well, I won't mind.

 

[KalMart]

As long as it's written well I'll be fine with it. I was never expecting the Joker to be part of the third Batman film anyways. And it really does depend on how much they talk about Harvey. I would just expect a very brief reference to the Joker if they specifically address Harvey's fall from grace. But, like I said, if it's written well, I won't mind.

Well...only Gordon and Batman know about his 'fall'....and that may never actually be revealed to the public or Bane (as far as they know, Batman killed him), even though Batman and Gordon still remember it. And even then, it may only be referenced to as a 'deal' or 'secret' they agreed to.....anyone who saw the last film will know what they're talking about.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Well...only Gordon and Batman know about his 'fall'....and that may never actually be revealed to the public, even though Batman and Gordon still remember it. And even then, it may only be referenced to as a 'deal' or 'secret' they agreed to.....anyone who saw the last film will know what they're talking about.

Yeah that's true. Of course, I was assuming that Bane would be revealing Dent's turn due to the released spy pics and all, but there's nothing that's confirmed that yet.

 

[KalMart]

Yeah that's true. Of course, I was assuming that Bane would be revealing Dent's turn due to the released spy pics and all, but there's nothing that's confirmed that yet.

I kinda' speculated that too, but now that Nolan says Joker won't be brought up, it's changed what I think it'll be. It'll probably be brief.

 

[BatmanIsMyHomey]

Keep in mind that there was never a mention of the Toxin attack on Gotham in TDK and that was a pretty major ordeal. I was waiting for them to drop some kind of nod to the narrows attack in TDK but that never happened... and it really didn't bother me at all.