The Dark Knight Rises The Joker sized elephant in the room

[BestGirl]

A good point. I do find it strange, however, that Batman has become the bête noire of Gothamites. It's as if they have forgotten all about the insane clown that did all that murdering and terrorism.

Well, the Joker is locked up and Batman is free, so it's only natural that Gotham's focused on the still immediate threat.

Am I the only one that doesn't think Joker would have fit in a third plot?

Let's pretend, for a second, that Ledger didn't deliver this amazing performance. And let's pretend Joker isn't Batman's #1 enemy. The character stood for chaos and making Gotham turn on itself.

We saw that arc completed in TDK. Just like with Harvey Dent. If the Joker reappeared as a main villain, it would have been repetitive. And if he wasn't the main villain...well he wouldn't have been a good inclusion anyway. Joker doesn't work for anyone else and should always be the biggest threat in the room.

I've thought this for some time. If Bane had released the Joker from Arkham, he wouldn't've been able to resist throwing a wrench into Bane's plans, so Bane would've had to take him out, but the Joker is sufficiently canny to avoid going down without a fight...eventually the focus would've drifted away from Bruce.

 

[RIPCOVictims]

Even if he was, The Joker shouldn't be limited to just one story arc. He's got a lot more potential than that. If Scarecrow had cameos in every single film, I bet Joker wouldve gotten one or have been some side role

I wasn't arguing that the Joker wouldn't/shouldn't have been in the third movie - in fact I feel exactly the opposite. I don't have many posts to my name so you can quickly look over them to get my perspective on the whole Joker/third movie angle if you wish, but in short I agree with you that bringing him back wouldn't have been a problem and in fact I think would have resulted in a tighter plot/script in the third movie. I was simply making the point that Two-Face's death in TDK had nothing to do with Ledger's passing.

 

[Mob1423]

I wasn't arguing that the Joker wouldn't/shouldn't have been in the third movie - in fact I feel exactly the opposite. I don't have many posts to my name so you can quickly look over them to get my perspective on the whole Joker/third movie angle if you wish, but in short I agree with you that bringing him back wouldn't have been a problem and in fact I think would have resulted in a tighter plot/script in the third movie. I was simply making the point that Two-Face's death in TDK had nothing to do with Ledger's passing.

Ah. Ok, you make a good point. I apologize for the misunderstanding

 

[weezerspider]

I think we would have gotten a vastly different film had Heath been alive. Whether that is a good thing or not, (for TDKR's sake, of course it would have been great if Heath were alive), we will never know. I very much like TDKR, but I can't help but wonder if Nolan's alternate film with Joker and possibly Bane(possibly a different villain) would have been better.

Also, it takes place 8 years later, is it that farfetched to assume Joker was executed/died in prison between the films?

 

[The Guard]

Oh come now, that stands for real life as well. Do you really think these civilized people really know what's going on in the world?

I think in the real world, people have all KINDS of paranoid conspiracy theories, some of which have elements of truth. I think in the real world there's no way all of Gotham would buy that Batman killed a bunch of cops and then Harvey Dent, just because they were told that.

 

[Ryan]

I doubt he'd ever do it, but if Nolan had ideas on doing a third movie with the joker, it would be cool to see him do it in comic book form. I think I read somewhere that Richard Donner worked on a few Superman comics a couple of years ago. The artist even had Supes looking like Reeve. I wouldn't think there'd be a total embargo against Heath's Joker, as they did ask his parents for permission to continue the viral campaign after his death.
It didn't bother me that they didn't mention the joker in tdkr, but nolan's reasoning is that they didn't want to try to make sense of a real world tragedy and explain it in the film. That kind of suggest that they didn't want to explain where the joker was....fair enough. But they could have just said things like..."wow,,,gordon hasn't been the same as the joker'...that's kinda lame...but you get my idea

 

[The Joker]

Well, Joker "created" Two-face, so all of the consequences of his existence (mob killing spree, Dent's Act, Batman being an outlaw) are Joker's responsability, so in TDKR even if not mentioned his presence is clearly there.

Not to mention the death of Rachel was Joker's doing, too. When you look at it Joker really did a number on Batman. It sent him into 8 years of depression and being a recluse.

 

[BlackFox]

Not to mention the death of Rachel was Joker's doing, too. When you look at it Joker really did a number on Batman. It sent him into 8 years of depression and being a recluse.

Thats what makes him THE best comic book villain ever created, he's a reflection of the good guy, but twisted in the direction of evil instead of good. He effects the Batman like no other bad guy has had an effect on any other super hero, he literally ****'s with his mind.

 

[Mob1423]

Thats what makes him THE best comic book villain ever created, he's a reflection of the good guy, but twisted in the direction of evil instead of good. He effects the Batman like no other bad guy has had an effect on any other super hero, he literally ****'s with his mind.

I think the only line from The Joker that REALLY sent Batman over the edge was in "Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker" when Joker revealed Tim Drake had told him all of Batman's secrets and mocked him:

"Behind all the stern and batarangs, you're just a little boy in a play suit crying for mommy and daddy. It'd be funny if it weren't so pathetic...OH WHAT THE HECK, I'll laugh anyway."

 

[ShadowBoxer]

I think the only line from The Joker that REALLY sent Batman over the edge was in "Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker" when Joker revealed Tim Drake had told him all of Batman's secrets and mocked him:

"Behind all the stern and batarangs, you're just a little boy in a play suit crying for mommy and daddy. It'd be funny if it weren't so pathetic...OH WHAT THE HECK, I'll laugh anyway."

Yea that line was awesome and it really did send Bat's over the edge.

 

[Deserana]

Is that line in one of the Arkham games?

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

It's mentioned in the actual post. It's from Batman Beyond: Return of The Joker.

 

[Mob1423]

Is that line in one of the Arkham games?

Unfortunately no. "Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker" was a direct to video animated Batman Beyond film released in 2000. It involved the Terry McGinnis Batman trying to solve the mystery on how the real Joker survived all these years after Bruce Wayne Batman watched him die.

It's very well written, I do highly recommend it

 

[Deserana]

It's mentioned in the actual post. It's from Batman Beyond: Return of The Joker.

I know but I'm sure as hell it is used in one of the Arkham games.

 

[Mob1423]

I know but I'm sure as hell it is used in one of the Arkham games.

Trust me, I played both Arkham Asylum and Arkham City. It's not in it, but I wish it was.

You MIGHT be thinking of a video where Batman visits Crime Alley and different lines, including that one, were edited in.

It's a beautiful video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1UtPwUmiYk&list=FLRQj29-dTFLxV-xUtkTfwKA&index=43&feature=plpp_video

 

[Rogue Kira]

So how there HAS to be some talk mention or screen time for him in this final film right? They can't destroy Gotham, connect everything to the other films...and totally leave him out.

How do you think it will be handled ( if at all )

and yet it felt like they did totally out.

 

[Deserana]

Trust me, I played both Arkham Asylum and Arkham City. It's not in it, but I wish it was.

You MIGHT be thinking of a video where Batman visits Crime Alley and different lines, including that one, were edited in.

It's a beautiful video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1UtPwUmiYk&list=FLRQj29-dTFLxV-xUtkTfwKA&index=43&feature=plpp_video

That is a great video but oh well genuinely thought it was in one of them obviously the first bit is slightly changed but I can remember "Ohhh heck I'll laugh anyway!" clear as day for some reason but I'm obviously going insane

 

[Mob1423]

That is a great video but oh well genuinely thought it was in one of them obviously the first bit is slightly changed but I can remember "Ohhh heck I'll laugh anyway!" clear as day for some reason but I'm obviously going insane

Hahaha I know what you mean. I did really wish that line ended up in either of the games. But we still got great dialogue in the end

I just really love how the guy who made that video added that dialogue from one of Batman's nightmares in Arkham Asylum where he relived his parent's murder. That was hard to watch the first time I played that game

 

[BestGirl]

I think in the real world, people have all KINDS of paranoid conspiracy theories, some of which have elements of truth. I think in the real world there's no way all of Gotham would buy that Batman killed a bunch of cops and then Harvey Dent, just because they were told that.

In the real world, someone would've made the connection that Bruce Wayne was Batman. Clearly Gothamites aren't the questioning sort.

 

[BlackFox]

Trust me, I played both Arkham Asylum and Arkham City. It's not in it, but I wish it was.

You MIGHT be thinking of a video where Batman visits Crime Alley and different lines, including that one, were edited in.

It's a beautiful video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1UtPwUmiYk&list=FLRQj29-dTFLxV-xUtkTfwKA&index=43&feature=plpp_video

Great moment in that game, really fitting.

 

[Devil-In]

I think in the real world, people have all KINDS of paranoid conspiracy theories, some of which have elements of truth. I think in the real world there's no way all of Gotham would buy that Batman killed a bunch of cops and then Harvey Dent, just because they were told that.

The Media is a powerful and cruel temptress. Just look at FAUX news

In the real world, someone would've made the connection that Bruce Wayne was Batman. Clearly Gothamites aren't the questioning sort.

Bull.

Lets pretend, for a moment, Batman really does exist. Would you ever believe that he is Donald Trump?

 

[regwec]

Since Trump is a fat 66, no.

 

[ej_monk84]

I don't know if this has been posted before in this thread or in an another discussion, but I just saw it in again imax and noticed that in this scene:

In the movie, there is a subway entrance to the right of everything in this picture that has the graffiti tag "KAO$" on it.
I think it's the movie's only subtle hint at the Joker being loose in the city.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Bull.

Lets pretend, for a moment, Batman really does exist. Would you ever believe that he is Donald Trump?

Bruce Wayne disappears for 7 years, comes back. Batman appears.

Bruce Wayne disappears for 8 years, comes back. Batman appears.

"Hey where's that big tank/military aircraft driving too? I don't know, but thanks to our handy, modern GPs systems we can just watch. Oh, Wayne Manor? Makes sense".

Policeman: Hey Batman, I need you to interrogate someone... Uh, it's Joker But they demanded no weapons.... Or he'll, uhhhh.... blow up a hospital again.

Batman: RAWRAWRARRARA!!!!

*slams door locked behind him*

Policeman: um.... thanks?

Policeman: You're a criminal, how did you not see this sort of thing coming?!

 

[Roose Bolton]

Batman's response would have been in Mandarin "I'm not a criminal."