The Dark Knight Rises The Joker sized elephant in the room

[Roose Bolton]

This was the end of Batman's story. The Joker would have still killed people regardless, see my namesake if you want comic based proof.

 

[Shpati]

JOKER DOESN'T KNOW THE ORIGINAL BATMAN IS STILL ALIVE! I think you have a hard time understanding that. And if you've ever seen "Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker", Joker only caused problems because he knew Bruce was Batman thanks to Tim Drake and only caused trouble in the future because he knew Bruce was too old to stop him. It was torture

But Joker saw Batman "die", not retire, DIE, without knowing his identity. Joker wouldn't feel the same if a Batman Beyond Batman was saving Gotham. In Joker's eyes, it's another copycat. And Joker would kill Blake because Blake has no guidance from Bruce. He's all alone

Alright man, relax. I understand.

What I am saying is from this movie it seems as though the Joker was kept in a better and more secure prison where he could not be freed. He will be trapped for ever.

Now say if he was the one to kill Bane and save Batman... What now? Is he free, does he run off some where in Gotham? Or does he get captured again?

If he is free, he will start killing again. He has time to spare since the Batman is gone. So if he starts causing chaos in Gotham again, maybe a little more than John Blake (after all John Blake just started taking the cowl) and Jim Gordon can handle, does Bruce Wayne remain relaxed in Europe or does he return to Gotham again?

I guess the Joker would not do anything too extreme since he did see the Batman die. His actions in The Dark Knight were because of Batman.

 

[Mob1423]

I think that would be interesting if Bale's Batman entered the Justice League and every hero had trouble on their own homeland. It would be interesting to see Batman return to Gotham and find John Blake taking the role of Batman Beyond, unable to handle Joker and whoever else is involved.

And I apologize for snapping

 

[Shpati]

I think that would be interesting if Bale's Batman entered the Justice League and every hero had trouble on their own homeland. It would be interesting to see Batman return to Gotham and find John Blake taking the role of Batman Beyond, unable to handle Joker and whoever else is involved.

And I apologize for snapping

No worries at all man.

I just think it is complicated. If the Joker made anything of a cameo appearance in the conclusion, I do not think there is enough closure for Bruce Wayne to retire knowing Gotham is in good hands. Joker would probably give John Blake a hell of a hard time, as well as Gordon, and the city of Gotham.

Ra's is dead
Two-Face is dead.
Joker is still a prisoner.
Talia and Bane are dead.
The mafia has been severely weakened.

Surely, that is enough for Bruce to know that Blake and Gordon can handle.

The Justice League idea sounds pretty cool. But I cannot remember... I think Nolan or Bale said something about their Batman being different, as in not apart of the Justice League Universe.

It will get kind of annoying for Bruce Wayne to make another return as Batman. I guess it would pretty cool if he did not actually return to Gotham. He just helped other member's of the Justice League as Batman.

I am positive that the next Batman reboot will tie into the Justice League.

 

[Zatanna]

In a word, no.

 

[GrimmReaper7]

I think had Joker come back it would have been cool to have him as a secondary villain behind bars for a majority of the film. Bane knows he is too dangerous so he leaves him locked up. Would be cool to pan back to see Joker scheming inside his cell and eventually get out and kill Bane near the end cause Bane doesnt have the right to kill Batman "we are destined to do this forever." Then have a grand finale showdown between Bman and Joker after a epic showdown between Bane.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I'd rather that not happen. Bane and Talia were the villains for this film. Not Joker. Bane could have released Joker in in order to begin taking away hope in Gotham, only for him to be apprehended by Batman,before his showdown with Bane, happy in the knowledge he got to play with him one last time.

 

[The Joker]

If we're to say Joker could be the one to expose Dent, then how could that just be for a little ol' scene or what have you?

I'm not sure what you're asking? Obviously Joker's quest would be to expose the truth and the victory he was denied at the end of TDK because of the cover up.

Being Joker and being Ledger's performance, I would certainly think there would be something big for Joker in TDKR that could take away Bane's positioning in the threequel.

Why? What makes you so positive that Joker's role would be bigger than Bane's? Or are you saying Bane pales so much in comparison to Joker that even a handful of Joker scenes could completely steal Bane's thunder regardless of how larger a role he had in the story?

The pages could've also been handwritten and still not explain every single death during Dent's killing spree. Nothing is for sure that Gordon did mention them, so I can't assume of it.

Handwritten or typed, Gordon's speech was clearly several pages long. He said he had written a speech telling the truth about Harvey Dent. There was more truth about what Dent did besides trying to kill Gordon's son. That's obviously what was written in that big speech.

Bane did not and could not possibly have read all of those pages in the few lines he read out. He just selected the worst part, where Dent tried to kill a child and it was covered up.

His first scene could've been in the mob meeting, but since we did see Chechen in that scene, it did help, and also showing the Batman wannabes that use guns which is not what Batman wanted to inspire. It was a great opening scene for many elements.

Yeah, it was good for Batman and the copycats, which could have been done with ANY criminals attacked by the Copycats, but it did nothing for the Chechen or Crane in the main plot of TDK. The Chechen's drug dealing with Crane was not mentioned again. It wasn't relevant.

]I would like to find the article still, as it didn't seem like a bs one or anything. It seemed like a real deal.

Best of luck finding it

 

[The Guard]

The idea of Bane utilizing an element of chaos like The Joker...that's intriguing. I could see something more along the lines of KNIGHTFALL, where Bane uses Joker to run Batman ragged until he breaks him, and then Batman "consults" The Joker in Arkham Asylum after he's incarcerated about capturing/defeating/understanding Bane...something along those lines.

 

[BlackFox]

The idea of Bane utilizing an element of chaos like The Joker...that's intriguing. I could see something more along the lines of KNIGHTFALL, where Bane uses Joker to run Batman ragged until he breaks him, and then Batman "consults" The Joker in Arkham Asylum after he's incarcerated about capturing/defeating/understanding Bane...something along those lines.

Thats probably the best idea Ive heard yet for using the Joker

Bane almost using the Joker as a decoy to soften him up.

 

[Deserana]

If Heath was to infact to be in another film would people have been happier if he was the one to off Bane? So Bane would release him from the prison and believes through his arrogance that he could utilise Joker for his own means. Then exactly like in the film when Bane is about to shoot him with the shotgun The Joker attacks him A) as a way for Bane's plan to use Joker to backfire against him and B) as "the only person who's gonna kill you is me" kind of act fro The Joker.

Do you feel IF that happened people would prefer Bane's death over the Catwoman one we got?

 

[The Guard]

Well, that definitely would have been better in a sense.

Depends on how it was executed.

I'm chuckling at the thought of Joker on the Batpod.

 

[BlackFox]

Well, that definitely would have been better in a sense.

Depends on how it was executed.

I'm chuckling at the thought of Joker on the Batpod.

Like an Ewok on a speederbike.

 

[Deserana]

Well, that definitely would have been better in a sense.

Depends on how it was executed.

I'm chuckling at the thought of Joker on the Batpod.

Obviously he wouldn't be on the batpod

 

[BatLobster]

If Joker was involved, I think he could be have been used as a means for Bane/LOS to discover the truth about Dent. I imagine Joker would have been eager to spill the beans about how he was able to screw with Dent's head. He may not have had any concrete proof of his killing spree, but he could have certainly got Bane and co. on the right track to discovering the truth. Maybe kidnapping Gordon and then torturing the truth out of him. That would have been an entirely different movie though.

So yeah, there are many compelling things you could have done with Joker in the film, but I'm still glad it's Bane's movie.

 

[KalMart]

If Joker was involved, I think he could be have been used as a means for Bane/LOS to discover the truth about Dent. I imagine Joker would have been eager to spill the beans about how he was able to screw with Dent's head. He may not have had any concrete proof of his killing spree, but he could have certainly got Bane and co. on the right track to discovering the truth. Maybe kidnapping Gordon and then torturing the truth out of him. That would have been an entirely different movie though.

So yeah, there are many compelling things you could have done with Joker in the film, but I'm still glad it's Bane's movie.

That's why it's a bit odd to see people surmising how Joker would fit into TDKR...as the story came about knowing that they wouldn't have Joker/Ledger, whereas if he lived it probably would have been a very different story altogether.

 

[The Guard]

Obviously he wouldn't be on the batpod

I'm pretttttty sure he would have been.

 

[Deserana]

I'm pretttttty sure he would have been.

A scene with Batman where he gives The Joker the Batpod

 

[Ryan]

Ha, the joker pretty well screws everyone he comes into contact with. (I'm joking of course) but wouldn't that have been great if he blasted Bane to save Batman, but then shoved a knife in Bats side

 

[honsq90]

"A scar for a scar, right Bats?"

 

[Anno_Domini]

I'm not sure what you're asking? Obviously Joker's quest would be to expose the truth and the victory he was denied at the end of TDK because of the cover up.

Why? What makes you so positive that Joker's role would be bigger than Bane's? Or are you saying Bane pales so much in comparison to Joker that even a handful of Joker scenes could completely steal Bane's thunder regardless of how larger a role he had in the story?

Well, for one, Joker would need something more than to just show up and expose a lie; that's not something Joker, or at least Nolan's Joker, would do. He would play mind games even before he exposes those lies.

And also, yah...I believe Joker would outshine Bane as well.

 

[herolee10]

If the joker were in this film, then not only would it have been a completely different film as others have mentioned, but it's possible that the Joker may have even been killed off to ensure that he wouldn't be a future threat for Gotham since the Joker being alive and free would have meant that Bruce wouldn't be able to leave Gotham until the Joker was dealt with.

 

[Ryan]

Probably doesn't bring us any closer to an answer but there are some interesting quotes from Nolan and Goyer in the photo section. Basically Nolan says there were no definate plans for a trilogy like Lord of the Rings. However during the whole process they would have discussions about possible sequels and where they might go with them.

 

[Devil-In]

Probably doesn't bring us any closer to an answer but there are some interesting quotes from Nolan and Goyer in the photo section. Basically Nolan says there were no definite plans for a trilogy like Lord of the Rings. However during the whole process they would have discussions about possible sequels and where they might go with them.

Which, despite how brilliantly he did this, is the one thing I hated about this set of films.

I remember people around here (been register before and lurking for a LONG time) saying how Joker could NEVER be in this film because the story doesn't allow for it. Horse****. That is backwards. If Nolan and Co. wanted, really wanted to bring Joker back, regardless of Heath Ledger's death, they could've. Instead, they ignored the subject deliberately. (probably both out of respect and because having a major baddie like Joker appear in two films back-to-back is a dumb idea, cinema-graphically)

When you envision something (like a trilogy of Batman films) it's a good idea to have at least a vague clue about what/ you want in each film, instead of having to work around already established continuity and limiting yourself on what you can do with each film.

Joker could've easily been brought to play in a two-part version of TDKR. Part one has Bane coming to Gotham and attacking Bruce's finances and Dent's reputation, and forces Batman to come out of hiding (similar to how it was done already) Half-way through the film, we have Bane cripple Gotham and release the inmates from Arkham and Blackgate. Here is where we are treated to Batman having to run down Zsasz, Crane, and all of Dent's thugs (wasn't the big black guy supposed to be Amygdala?). HAving already been established that Bruce can't phyiscally be Batman anymore, this runs him ragged. Bane then breaks into Wayne Manor and the Cave with knowledge of who is Batman, and breaks him and concludes part 1. Part 2 is Joker setting up shop in the now chaos-ridden No Man's Land type Gotham, Dent being revealed to be alive and in Arkham and sets up at the Docks or an old Courthouse, where Bane, he, and Crane hold the sentencing for the rich and powerful of Gotham. Everything else plays out pretty much the same with Catwoman, Batman healing is given greater time. Joker's chaos is actually the thing that starts and finally finishes Bane's "liberation" of Gotham because he cannot be controlled. The ending here has greater emphasis being put on the fact Bruce cannot keep being Batman (phyisically, mentally, emotionally), and JGL is instead revealed to be "Officer McGinnis" taking up the mantle of the Bat knowing that Gotham will always need a Batman.


Wow...that's more of a "how would I bring Two-Face back instead of Joker, but I think my point is made. If they really wanted to do it, they could've.

 

[KalMart]

The question remains...did the Nolan's not want to bring Joker back regardless of whether Ledger died or not, or because he did die and they didn't want recast/work around his dying? I tend to think it was more the latter that came in even before they started conceiving the story for the third film.