Age of Ultron The Joss Whedon thread

[Typhoon22]

Some of you fanboys who are so defensive over these things really need to be a bit more open minded.

I've never been a fan of Whedon. He seems like a very nice guy. And he's done some great work which I appreciated and even enjoyed. But even Avengers 1 I had issues with. AOU proved to me that I'd prefer someone else. I'm also not sure about the Russos. But Whedon got his shot. Now the Russos will. I will go in with an open mind just like with AOU and decide it for myself.

 

[Lilbaz]

Why should there be any loyalty?

Whedon/Nolan etc... Are making a product that you are paying for. If it is good, happy days. If not then complain. each film should be based on it's own merits. But you can determine if a director/writer is to your tastes. I was not a fan of any of whedon's tv shows. Serenity I quite liked. Avengers was good for what it was but could have been better.

So far I've liked one film by the Russos. I might hate civil war. We'll see.

 

[titansupes]

I haven't seen any MCU fans "turn on" Whedon. People just want a fresh direction and there's nothing wrong with that. Nobody is hating or criticizing him...he's had several great years with Marvel and now both sides are ready for a new direction. Calling it "turning on" Whedon is such an immature fanboy sentiment. I love Nolan too, but I wouldn't want him to make every Batman movie til the end of time.

Wanting something new is one thing. I'm looking forward to that, too. It's when, in spite of how much the movies were loved by the fans or how much success they had for the genre, fans still start pulling the "Such and such never got such and such a character! Oh my god finally we have THIS new toy!" bull that it really, really grates on my nerves. Happened with Burton when Nolan came, happening to Nolan now that Snyder (of all people...) has come, and now it feels like it might happen with Whedon and the Russo's.

 

[hafizbat]

Wanting something new is one thing. I'm looking forward to that, too. It's when, in spite of how much the movies were loved by the fans or how much success they had for the genre, fans still start pulling the "Such and such never got such and such a character! Oh my god finally we have THIS new toy!" bull that it really, really grates on my nerves. Happened with Burton when Nolan came, happening to Nolan now that Snyder (of all people...) has come, and now it feels like it might happen with Whedon and the Russo's.

Yeah, screw people who think that way. All I know is that I myself am very grateful that the MCU had Joss Whedon. He's a great talent and he has left his mark.

 

[Adversary]

I was never a big fan of Whedon's TV shows, but I did enjoy his X-men comic book line. When it comes to character interactions and witty dialogue he is great, but outside of that he doesn't really impress me that much.

I respect what Whedon did for the Avenger films, but it's time we got a new take on the franchise that focuses more on plot rather than just spectacle & one-liners. Based on TWS I am convinced Marvel made the right choice in picking the Russo bros for that. (I do hope Whedon will stay as a creative consultant/script doctor though.)

 

[Silvermoth]

I kind of agree. I think maybe he got a bit worn out with this although it was a lot of fun

 

[eddy]

I haven't seen any MCU fans "turn on" Whedon. People just want a fresh direction and there's nothing wrong with that. Nobody is hating or criticizing him...he's had several great years with Marvel and now both sides are ready for a new direction. Calling it "turning on" Whedon is such an immature fanboy sentiment. I love Nolan too, but I wouldn't want him to make every Batman movie til the end of time.

His comments about Coulson pissed off the dozens of AOS fans.

He already had his detractors before the first film so they've just come back out to s*** on him on his way out as the Russos take over. But I won't be surprised when people turn on the Russos. As the other poster said, it happens with all fanboy directors/writers. I think Damon Lindelof has had it the worst though. Everything he works on has that Lost cloud hanging over it.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I see people are already talking about it, but after browsing the boards tonight, I was gonna come on here to comment on how sick I am of people suddenly tripping up over themselves to take a dump on Whedon with the "I'm glad he's leaving! The Russos are much better!" comments.

It's sad how it always seems to happen. People talk about how it happens with actors, and it does, but it happens with directors of franchise movies like this too. When the director is making the films, they're worshiped like they're the savior of cinema, hyperbole of their genius is heaped on their head, even the slightest criticism is slammed down with fury. But the second they announce they're moving on, it's not enough to still like and respect them and also like and respect their replacement. Nope, for a certain subset of the fanbase, it seems once a director is gone, all of a sudden they suck, and you're glad they're going. And in fact, they always sucked and you never liked them anyway, and (Insert Name of New Director) is in fact the real genius who you've always liked better. And anyone who still likes them is a loser fanboy zealot.

It happened with Christopher Nolan, to the point where I read someone saying on the boards the other day that they wish The Dark Knight Trilogy had been directed by Zack Snyder because then it would have been done right - truly, a head-desk moment. It happened with Edgar Wright, where he went from a huge boon for Marvel's directing roster to a talentless hack who Marvel should be glad to be rid of. And now, sadly, it seems to be happening to Joss Whedon. However, I was a fan of his before he stepped into the MCU, and I'll keep on being a fan of his after.

 

[Serpico Jones]

My issue with Whedon has always been his non-stop use of sarcastic remarks and the fact that his blocking and cinematography is often dull. His films look like tv episodes.

 

[AgentGojiraRgr]

My issue with Whedon has always been his non-stop use of sarcastic remarks and the fact that his blocking and cinematography is often dull. His films look like tv episodes.

Yup yup yup!!!

 

[Tacit Ronin]

It happened with Christopher Nolan, to the point where I read someone saying on the boards the other day that they wish The Dark Knight Trilogy had been directed by Zack Snyder because then it would have been done right

That was hilarious. I also read a post that said if Snyder directed BB instead of Nolan, it would've been better. Because as we've seen, Snyder directing a Goyer script by his lonesome turned out so good.

 

[kaijunexus]

I'm happy to let Joss go. He's done an amazing job, and helmed two massive movies. But he's tired, and it apparently shows in his latest effort. Let the man rest. We have plenty of talented shoulders to rest the MCU on now.

 

[dsfjr1190]

After seeing AoU, I'm ready for someone else to helm the Avengers movies. Especially the directors and writers of TWS.

I liked AoU (I'd give it a 7.5 out of 10), but his style is just too predictable to me now.

Add to that the fact that he seems to be physically and mentally drained from his time in the MCU, him taking a break from the MCU is probably for the best.

 

[venom892]

If Whedon is drained after two of these, how likely will it be for the Russos to burn out before Infinity War 2? I haven't seen AOU, but I do find it grating that now Joss is being crucified and the Russos are being put on pedestal. I love them both and both should be praised for their efforts. A1 wasn't perfect but Joss saved us from a travesty from Zak Penn. This recent development is also hilarious considering how many people hated the Russos as the choice for Winter Solider since they were "just comedy directors."

 

[Saitou Hajime]

If Whedon is drained after two of these, how likely will it be for the Russos to burn out before Infinity War 2?

Whedon did it all himself. IW's creative team is a four man team.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I love Whedon. AOU fixed and improved upon basically every problem I had with Avengers 1. I'm glad he has left for his own sanity's sake, but I still think he is incredibly talented and I don't quite get why people feel disenfranchised with him after AOU of all things.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

I think people are also forgetting that besides writing and directing AoU, he was also consulting on all the other Phase 2 films and shaping them so they'd fit in with AoU. All those responsibilities would tax just about anyone so I can see how he has Marvel fatigue right now.

 

[DACrowe]

Joss Whedon is one of the great creative minds in pop culture at the moment. Better still, something his newly sprung detractors ought to remember, he is an unabashed geek himself. Christopher Nolan or Bryan Singer might be better filmmakers, but Joss Whedon is a solid director and a great writer who LOVES geek culture, comic book and all.

I personally think Avengers: Age of Ultron could have been a much better movie than what it turned out to be. Maybe Whedon is burned out. But to me this reeks all too much of Jon Favreau who also turned in a great first entry and then a mediocre sequel that was compromised too disappointing degrees by studio logic and "world building" necessities, wasting a talented actor (Rourke, Spader) in an underdeveloped villain role and leaving the main cast members to sleepwalk through the film.

Favreau and Whedon are not lazy filmmakers. My worry is that Ultron's mediocrity is a sign of things to come. If Marvel could not handle this many characters while micromanaging a self-contained film like this, it does give me pause about Civil War and beyond, especially when they are having two-parters.

Another way to say this is that Marvel has yet to have two consecutive films in the same series (i.e. Iron Man, Thor, Avengers) of equal quality. The one exception is Cap 2 is much better than Cap 1. Then again, I don't think Cap 1 was very good.

To quote another Disney property, as of now I have a bad feeling about this.

 

[hafizbat]

I see people are already talking about it, but after browsing the boards tonight, I was gonna come on here to comment on how sick I am of people suddenly tripping up over themselves to take a dump on Whedon with the "I'm glad he's leaving! The Russos are much better!" comments.

It's sad how it always seems to happen. People talk about how it happens with actors, and it does, but it happens with directors of franchise movies like this too. When the director is making the films, they're worshiped like they're the savior of cinema, hyperbole of their genius is heaped on their head, even the slightest criticism is slammed down with fury. But the second they announce they're moving on, it's not enough to still like and respect them and also like and respect their replacement. Nope, for a certain subset of the fanbase, it seems once a director is gone, all of a sudden they suck, and you're glad they're going. And in fact, they always sucked and you never liked them anyway, and (Insert Name of New Director) is in fact the real genius who you've always liked better. And anyone who still likes them is a loser fanboy zealot.

It happened with Christopher Nolan, to the point where I read someone saying on the boards the other day that they wish The Dark Knight Trilogy had been directed by Zack Snyder because then it would have been done right - truly, a head-desk moment. It happened with Edgar Wright, where he went from a huge boon for Marvel's directing roster to a talentless hack who Marvel should be glad to be rid of. And now, sadly, it seems to be happening to Joss Whedon. However, I was a fan of his before he stepped into the MCU, and I'll keep on being a fan of his after.

Well said.

That was hilarious. I also read a post that said if Snyder directed BB instead of Nolan, it would've been better. Because as we've seen, Snyder directing a Goyer script by his lonesome turned out so good.

Yeah, that was a facepalm moment. Snyder isn't even close to being on Nolan's level, and I say that as someone who likes Snyder.

If Whedon is drained after two of these, how likely will it be for the Russos to burn out before Infinity War 2?

This is a very valid question. I do however get the sense that the Russo bros are much more into collaboration and teamwork than Whedon, who seemed to always put it all on his own plate. I remember reading about how the Russos even took advice from SLJ and incorporated it into the movie. They seem to be very open to advice and outside opinions, which hopefully is a good sign.

Joss Whedon is one of the great creative minds in pop culture at the moment. Better still, something his newly sprung detractors ought to remember, he is an unabashed geek himself. Christopher Nolan or Bryan Singer might be better filmmakers, but Joss Whedon is a solid director and a great writer who LOVES geek culture, comic book and all.

I personally think Avengers: Age of Ultron could have been a much better movie than what it turned out to be. Maybe Whedon is burned out. But to me this reeks all too much of Jon Favreau who also turned in a great first entry and then a mediocre sequel that was compromised too disappointing degrees by studio logic and "world building" necessities, wasting a talented actor (Rourke, Spader) in an underdeveloped villain role and leaving the main cast members to sleepwalk through the film.

Favreau and Whedon are not lazy filmmakers. My worry is that Ultron's mediocrity is a sign of things to come. If Marvel could not handle this many characters while micromanaging a self-contained film like this, it does give me pause about Civil War and beyond, especially when they are having two-parters.

Another way to say this is that Marvel has yet to have two consecutive films in the same series (i.e. Iron Man, Thor, Avengers) of equal quality. The one exception is Cap 2 is much better than Cap 1. Then again, I don't think Cap 1 was very good.

To quote another Disney property, as of now I have a bad feeling about this.

Eh, I'd like to say you're blowing things out of proportion because the MCU is in better shape than ever, but I'd be lying if I said your concern isn't valid. Still, Marvel has put out much, much more good than bad so I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt for now. Civil War will teach us much about the state of the MCU.

 

[flickchick85]

I see people are already talking about it, but after browsing the boards tonight, I was gonna come on here to comment on how sick I am of people suddenly tripping up over themselves to take a dump on Whedon with the "I'm glad he's leaving! The Russos are much better!" comments.

It's sad how it always seems to happen. People talk about how it happens with actors, and it does, but it happens with directors of franchise movies like this too. When the director is making the films, they're worshiped like they're the savior of cinema, hyperbole of their genius is heaped on their head, even the slightest criticism is slammed down with fury. But the second they announce they're moving on, it's not enough to still like and respect them and also like and respect their replacement. Nope, for a certain subset of the fanbase, it seems once a director is gone, all of a sudden they suck, and you're glad they're going. And in fact, they always sucked and you never liked them anyway, and (Insert Name of New Director) is in fact the real genius who you've always liked better. And anyone who still likes them is a loser fanboy zealot.

It happened with Christopher Nolan, to the point where I read someone saying on the boards the other day that they wish The Dark Knight Trilogy had been directed by Zack Snyder because then it would have been done right - truly, a head-desk moment. It happened with Edgar Wright, where he went from a huge boon for Marvel's directing roster to a talentless hack who Marvel should be glad to be rid of. And now, sadly, it seems to be happening to Joss Whedon. However, I was a fan of his before he stepped into the MCU, and I'll keep on being a fan of his after.

Agreed.

 

[Sharkboy]

Joss is the man, he was the man before he ever touched the MCU, he was the man during the MCU and he's still the man post AoU.

 

[Saitou Hajime]

This is a very valid question. I do however get the sense that the Russo bros are much more into collaboration and teamwork than Whedon, who seemed to always put it all on his own plate. I remember reading about how the Russos even took advice from SLJ and incorporated it into the movie. They seem to be very open to advice and outside opinions, which hopefully is a good sign.

Like I said, Whedon directed AND wrote AoU by himself, of course he's going to run himself to the ground. In contrast the writing and directing duties for both CW and IW are split between two duos.

 

[flickchick85]

The way the tide's turning against him, you'd think he'd delivered another SM3 or something, lol.

 

[Mr.T]

Whedon left his mark and helped take Marvel movies to the next level. AoU, although not critically liked as much as Avengers, is still a good movie. It's an amazing feet, considering the scope of the entire Avengers universe, to be at the helm of two of the most successful and anticipated movies in history.
With that said, I don't think it's a bad thing to want to see a new vision & style with a different director.

 

[titansupes]

Agreed.

So glad more and more people are recognising all this.