The kyle vs. Hal thread

[Ultra-Herald9]

Alright men, break out your tea cause cause we are gonna debate this one once and for all like gentlemen. I have seen some split arguments in my time *cough* Metallica vs. Megadeth *cough* but this one seriously divides people. Hal fans never seem to like Kyle and vice versa. Im interested in hearing people compare some pros and cons and talk about what we like a dislike about the characters.

Me, myself, i'm a Hal guy. Always liked him and his attitude. to me, he is the Superman of the GLC which is why it never was bothered by his goldenchild treatment he's getting (or maybe i never really noticed. I always figured thats how he was supposed to be treated). Hal has a certain badassness to him......like that old type of film hero you just don't get anymore. Kyle although lovably modest is a little angsty for me. Not classic angsty like Spider-Man( or whining,whatever, either way its annoying) but a different kind. Anywho, those are some of my thoughts for now....

 

[SuperFerret]

Alright men, break out your tea cause cause we are gonna debate this one once and for all like gentlemen. I have seen some split arguments in my time *cough* Metallica vs. Megadeth *cough* but this one seriously divides people. Hal fans never seem to like Kyle and vice versa. Im interested in hearing people compare some pros and cons and talk about what we like a dislike about the characters.

Me, myself, i'm a Hal guy. Always liked him and his attitude. to me, he is the Superman of the GLC which is why it never was bothered by his goldenchild treatment he's getting (or maybe i never really noticed. I always figured thats how he was supposed to be treated). Hal has a certain badassness to him......like that old type of film hero you just don't get anymore. Kyle although lovably modest is a little angsty for me. Not classic angsty like Spider-Man( or whining,whatever, either way its annoying) but a different kind. Anywho, those are some of my thoughts for now....

I like both, for different reasons, and this won't be the "once and for all". This, like "Batman vs. Superman" and "Spider-Man vs. Wolverine" and "Marvel vs. DC", will never end. People love the "us vs. them" mentality too much.

 

[Aristotle]

Metallica are and always have been better songwriters, and James Hetfield is a better singer. However, anyone who thinks that anyone in Metallica can play as well as the Daves from Megadeth is sadly mistaken.

Marvel is a company founded on gimmickry, and their characters and stories have suffered from that for as long as their superhero universe has existed. However, it can't be denied that their marketing scheme is stunningly good, in an age when comics need marketing badly, and while some of their ******** undoubtedly harms and has harmed comics in the long run, they also provide a good level of visibility to a scene that desperately needs it. DC has consistently published artistically and literarily (using these words in their broader senses now, not just referring to pencillers and scripters) superior material to Marvel's output, since at least the mid-1970s. However, they must have ******s working in marketing, and they made a huge mess out of an almost perfect superhero universe that they're still fixing.

Superman could beat Batman if Batman didn't know he was coming. Batman could beat Superman if Batman did know he was coming. Batman is cooler than Superman, except when Batman is Jean-Paul Valley and Superman has a mullet. Mullet>Grim'n'gritty.

**** Spider-Man until he becomes multidimensional, which so far he hasn't, and **** Wolverine unless he's being written by someone with the ability to be original and actually tell a story.

Hal Jordan is boring. The only reason people like him is that he's "classic." I'd like to see these people come out in favor of bringing Cave Carson back to the forefront as the star of Justice Society of America or something, because as a character, he and Hal Jordan were basically the same guy doing different jobs for years. If you "love" the character of Hal Jordan, all you're saying is you love the run-of-the-mill white superhero guy from the Silver Age. It's nice that you enjoyed the Silver Age so much, but now our characters need to have distinct personalities, because discerning readers would rather not read about the same guy doing a billion different things in a billion different comics with a billion different names and a billion different costumes. We'd prefer a billion different characters. One of those characters is Kyle Rayner, who had more varied and interesting stories in his one decade than Hal Jordan had in three.

 

[Ultra-Herald9]

I like both, for different reasons, and this won't be the "once and for all". This, like "Batman vs. Superman" and "Spider-Man vs. Wolverine" and "Marvel vs. DC", will never end. People love the "us vs. them" mentality too much.

Well, honestly "us vs. them" can be a little fun as long as its kept within bounds. Its always fun having a little character rivarly. What i can't understand is them constant shenanigans of peolpe claiming that Kyle has been robbed of his honor and that Hal is annoyingly uber.

 

[The Major]

Well, honestly "us vs. them" can be a little fun as long as its kept within bounds. Its always fun having a little character rivarly. What i can't understand is them constant shenanigans of peolpe claiming that Kyle has been robbed of his honor and that Hal is annoyingly uber.

Kyle and Hal haven't been equals since Hal came back. That's what's rubbing the Kyle fans the wrong way. They can exist as equal in the GL franchise. There can be more then one GL at one time, unlike Batman.

Hal is incredibly uber compared to Kyle, especially if they're around each other. That's another source for conflict with the Kyle fans which needs to be addressed.

 

[Ultra-Herald9]

Metallica are and always have been better songwriters, and James Hetfield is a better singer. However, anyone who thinks that anyone in Metallica can play as well as the Daves from Megadeth is sadly mistaken.

*sigh* I'm gonna have to resist the urge to delve off topic here...

Marvel is a company founded on gimmickry, and their characters and stories have suffered from that for as long as their superhero universe has existed. However, it can't be denied that their marketing scheme is stunningly good, in an age when comics need marketing badly, and while some of their ******** undoubtedly harms and has harmed comics in the long run, they also provide a good level of visibility to a scene that desperately needs it. DC has consistently published artistically and literarily (using these words in their broader senses now, not just referring to pencillers and scripters) superior material to Marvel's output, since at least the mid-1970s. However, they must have ******s working in marketing, and they made a huge mess out of an almost perfect superhero universe that they're still fixing.

Superman could beat Batman if Batman didn't know he was coming. Batman could beat Superman if Batman did know he was coming. Batman is cooler than Superman, except when Batman is Jean-Paul Valley and Superman has a mullet. Mullet>Grim'n'gritty.

**** Spider-Man until he becomes multidimensional, which so far he hasn't, and **** Wolverine unless he's being written by someone with the ability to be original and actually tell a story.

Hal Jordan is boring. The only reason people like him is that he's "classic." I'd like to see these people come out in favor of bringing Cave Carson back to the forefront as the star of Justice Society of America or something, because as a character, he and Hal Jordan were basically the same guy doing different jobs for years. If you "love" the character of Hal Jordan, all you're saying is you love the run-of-the-mill white superhero guy from the Silver Age. It's nice that you enjoyed the Silver Age so much, but now our characters need to have distinct personalities, because discerning readers would rather not read about the same guy doing a billion different things in a billion different comics with a billion different names and a billion different costumes. We'd prefer a billion different characters. One of those characters is Kyle Rayner, who had more varied and interesting stories in his one decade than Hal Jordan had in three.

Dude, i get so tired of hearing that "Hal has no personality" trip. Anyone who says that hasn't been reading enough GL. The dudes a ****ing badass by nature. He's arrogant, oppionated, and passionate but he is loyal as **** and he's great with the ladies. Okay, so he's a womanizer. He's got serious issues with authority but they still manage to make him stay in line enough to prvenet him from becoming an annoying "**** the police" type. I nearly shat myself when i saw that pic of him kicking guardian ass in the latest GL, please let that actually happen! I hate the guardians.

 

[Ultra-Herald9]

Kyle and Hal haven't been equals since Hal came back. That's what's rubbing the Kyle fans the wrong way.

Hal is incredibly uber compared to Kyle, especially if they're around each other. That's another source for conflict with the Kyle fans which needs to be addressed.

Thats all i hear all the time. Am i missing something?? When has Hal been portrayed as better than Kyle. I seem to remeber Kyle laying the pimp hand down on Hal During Sinestro Corp. Besides in the very writer in the 90's went crazy with kyle fever and every five seconds had to remind everyone how much 'cooler' Kyle was than Hal. As far as i'm concerned Hal's finally getting some play.

 

[SuperFerret]

Metallica are and always have been better songwriters, and James Hetfield is a better singer. However, anyone who thinks that anyone in Metallica can play as well as the Daves from Megadeth is sadly mistaken.

Marvel is a company founded on gimmickry, and their characters and stories have suffered from that for as long as their superhero universe has existed. However, it can't be denied that their marketing scheme is stunningly good, in an age when comics need marketing badly, and while some of their ******** undoubtedly harms and has harmed comics in the long run, they also provide a good level of visibility to a scene that desperately needs it. DC has consistently published artistically and literarily (using these words in their broader senses now, not just referring to pencillers and scripters) superior material to Marvel's output, since at least the mid-1970s. However, they must have ******s working in marketing, and they made a huge mess out of an almost perfect superhero universe that they're still fixing.

Superman could beat Batman if Batman didn't know he was coming. Batman could beat Superman if Batman did know he was coming. Batman is cooler than Superman, except when Batman is Jean-Paul Valley and Superman has a mullet. Mullet>Grim'n'gritty.

**** Spider-Man until he becomes multidimensional, which so far he hasn't, and **** Wolverine unless he's being written by someone with the ability to be original and actually tell a story.

Hal Jordan is boring. The only reason people like him is that he's "classic." I'd like to see these people come out in favor of bringing Cave Carson back to the forefront as the star of Justice Society of America or something, because as a character, he and Hal Jordan were basically the same guy doing different jobs for years. If you "love" the character of Hal Jordan, all you're saying is you love the run-of-the-mill white superhero guy from the Silver Age. It's nice that you enjoyed the Silver Age so much, but now our characters need to have distinct personalities, because discerning readers would rather not read about the same guy doing a billion different things in a billion different comics with a billion different names and a billion different costumes. We'd prefer a billion different characters. One of those characters is Kyle Rayner, who had more varied and interesting stories in his one decade than Hal Jordan had in three.

 

[Aristotle]

Anyone who says that hasn't been reading enough GL.

Dude, I've read it all. And I mean, all of it. Everything. I don't really mention it a lot, because the nature of most Green Lantern related conversation here is Kyle vs. Hal, or "OMG BLACKEST NIGTHW ILL SUXXK BECAUSE I AUTOMATICALLY HATE ALL EVENT COMICS," but if it was a Green Lantern comic book, I've read it. Even those crappy old Golden Age Alan Scott ones. Or the Emerald Knights thing that nobody likes to talk about anymore. Or that Last Will and Testament thing that laid the entire groundwork for everything Johns has done with the franchise. I read Hard Travelin' Heroes. I read the first part of GL Vol. 3, when it was still a Hal book. I read those early Kyle issues, when the book sucked ass, and so did the character. I read that little spate of issues when he was with the Titans. I've read every Justice League comic book. I have read all of it.

Hal Jordan was a good superhero. Good, solid, stock superhero. But you know what he never was? Particularly unique. The best Hal stories were always about the world around Hal Jordan. Hal was a vehicle for telling stories about everything else, and that was great, that was fine. But don't act as if he's got some innate interesting quality to him. Geoff Johns has done some nice revamping work with him, but make no mistake: you like Geoff Johns' Hal Jordan, not the inherency of Hal Jordan.

The dudes a ****ing badass by nature.

No, he's a sucker-puncher by nature. Batman is a badass. Wolverine is a badass. Deathstroke is a badass. Hal Jordan is an irritating jock with an attitude problem.

He's arrogant, oppionated, and passionate but he is loyal as ****

Because most other superheroes in the DCU aren't? I hate to always use these guys the way I do, but Mas y ****ing Menos are loyal as hell too. You have to try hard to find DC characters that aren't opinionated and passionate and loyal.

and he's great with the ladies. Okay, so he's a womanizer.

No. He's not. Where did this reputation come from? Ollie Queen is a womanizer. Hal Jordan just has commitment issues. Like, y'know, Dick Grayson, Bruce Wayne, Tim Drake, early Wally West, and a host of other superheroes. Where's the uniqueness? Where's the personality? ****, I have commitment issues, and my girlfriend does too. Does that mean you want us to be Green Lanterns?

I nearly shat myself when i saw that pic of him kicking guardian ass in the latest GL, please let that actually happen! I hate the guardians.

Myself, I'm a bit tired of this trend in comics. When will the Guardians and Professor Xavier be allowed to not **** something up? It's like that ******ed trend in the mid- to late-1990s (which still hasn't entirely gone away) where Batman would show up in every new character's book so the new character could prove that they were either more badass than Batman, or a more decent person than Batman.

When has Hal been portrayed as better than Kyle.

Maybe it was the way Hal escaped Parallax of his own volition, just kind decided to, whereas Kyle needed Hal's help. And that's just one example.

I seem to remeber Kyle laying the pimp hand down on Hal During Sinestro Corp.

You remember wrong.

Besides in the very writer in the 90's went crazy with kyle fever and every five seconds had to remind everyone how much 'cooler' Kyle was than Hal.

Except for all the times they would do that dumb plot device where Kyle somehow meets up with Hal via time travel or dream sleeping or whatever, and Hal would impart some valuable wisdom from across the ages. They did the same ****in' thing in Wally's book every once in awhile. We really should have seen this hijacking coming.

As far as i'm concerned Hal's finally getting some play.

OK, so we're at least abandoning the pretense that you don't realize how much better Hal is being portrayed than Kyle?

 

[Flyclops]

Hal is a pedo: FACT

Hal is crappy lantern: FACT

Kyle has hot rhymes: FACT

The choice is simple. Case closed, locked thread, end of discussion. Kyle is superior in every aspect.

 

[The Major]

Thats all i hear all the time. Am i missing something?? When has Hal been portrayed as better than Kyle.

Hal rescued Kyle for Parallax, for one. That's covered thoroughly in the official GL thread recently. As Ion he got taken down casually by Sinestro, as well.

I seem to remeber Kyle laying the pimp hand down on Hal During Sinestro Corp.

What issue was this?

Besides in the very writer in the 90's went crazy with kyle fever and every five seconds had to remind everyone how much 'cooler' Kyle was than Hal.

What comics did you read? The comics I've seen Kyle in he practically worshiped Hal, even when he fought him as Parallax, and didn't do any feats that put down Hal at all. The only scene I can think of that might describe this was Daniel telling Kyle he was the greatest GL since he knew fear in JLA. That's it.

As far as i'm concerned Hal's finally getting some play.

How does equality between Kyle and Hal stop this?

 

[Keyser Soze]

Yeah, I'm sick of Kyle constantly being undermined so Hal can look stronger. What's next? Maybe Geoff Johns will do something really dumb to cement Hal's superiority, like... I dunno, having Kyle go crazy, wipe out the Guardians and the Corps, dismantle the whole mythos, so that Hal is the only Green Lanten left, then spend years having everyone tell him he's the last surviving remnant of the Green Lanterns, a single ray of hope for the universe, etc etc. Then kill off Kyle too for good measure.

Yeah, Hal is constantly undermining the rest of the GL mythos to give him a stronger niche. We never got anything like that with Kyle.


EDIT: I should add that I don't have anything against Kyle Rayner, and like him just fine as a character. I only bring up this issue to show how, while certain people cry foul about inequality, they don't hold Hal and Kyle to the same standards. And there seems to be a lot of inequality in regards to how the characters and their respective fans are treated on here. Liking Kyle is simply taken for granted and accepted, but anybody who dares like Hal is forced to constantly explain their reasons and defend their preference. The whole... "Explain, in detail, your exact reasons for liking Hal" - they list their reasons - "This is not a valid reason for liking Hal, this is not a valid reason for liking Hal, this is not a valid reason for liking Hal, therefore you don't actually like Hal"... thing, you don't see the Kyle fans being put through that. They're allowed to simply have a personal preference of Green Lantern, a luxury not granted to the Hal fans. And the constant "us VS them" mentality means that you might go into a thread as a fan of both characters, only to find yourself pushed over to one side of the fence by all the hostility.

 

[Hush]

We just want to know why you do like Hal and if so how can you? Kyle clearly is the better GL and Character seeing as he isn't a one trick pony. Like Aristotle said Hal is a card-board shelf character. He bores Kyle fans and DC knows that Kyle fans love the character and still **** all over him. They take ION away and give it to a guy who gets his ass handed with it! WHAT WAS THE POINT OF THAT? Just stupid **** like that gets people very very very annoyed.

 

[WompuM]

First, Stotle, why do you have to talk **** on Mas y Menos? What have they done to you, besides maybe stealing your hubcaps?

This debate is tiresome. No one side will ever be happy or win because, as we know, it's not about what the fans think-- it's about what the editorial people decide. 10 years ago, Hal was getting the shaft and Kyle was on the up&up. Today, it is reversed because DC has decided that the silver age is the direction they are interested in taking their company. Now, seeing the massive veiny erection DC has for Grant Morrision right now, I would not be surprised within a few years, that his classic JLA line-up will be back and Kyle will be front and center once again. The 90's will return gentlemen, and on that day you will hear the silver-age fans *****ing just as much as we do today.

Comics has it's ups and downs. We get epic stories like sinestro war and blackest night (which I'm assuming will be good but what do I know), and for it we have Kyle starring, well no, featured in an ensemble book rather than his own title. If Kyle was never seen, I could see people's total frustration, but as of now, we have Johns writing a good Hal book, and Tosami wiritng a better Kyle and company book.

Now, I still do have grievances. This whole Ion business is a damn shame, and having Kyle in Countdown was a slap in the face to his character. If I never see him on the same panel as Jason Todd again, it will be too soon. Countdown put both Jason and Kyle's potential back about 5 years.

 

[Keyser Soze]

We just want to know why you do like Hal and if so how can you? Kyle clearly is the better GL and Character seeing as he isn't a one trick pony.

Okay, I'll bite. Why I like Hal Jordan:

What I like about Hal Jordan is that, to me, he's the very definition of the willpower of the Green Lantern Corps. It's the story of the powerful man laid low, who through sheer will fought his way back to the top. It's a classic "rise and fall....and rise" arc. Would I like to have seen some more exploration of how that fall has effected him personally? Yes, perhaps that could be fodder for a future arc.

Yet though he might have got a "get-out-of-jail-free" in regards to Parallax, he's hardly perfect or flawless. That willpower, while a strength, has also worked against him. His stubborn determination to do what he thinks is right, or simply to do things his way, sometimes borders on the obtuse, and has often cost both him and people he cares about dearly. Think of him and his friends being tortured in a POW camp for a year because Hal refuses to wear his ring while flying. Or, intriguingly, the idea being currently played with that Sinestro might have been right handling Korugar the way he did, and Hal was wrong to "betray" him. If he hadn't been so single-mindedly stubborn on that occasion, a whole lot of bloodshed brought from the wake of Sinestro's fall might have been averted. And then there's the classic disrespect of the Guardians and their authority.

A character I frequently say Hal Jordan reminds me of is Jimmy McNulty from The Wire, with a righteousness bordering on the SELF-righteous, and one itchy trigger finger always seeming to be hovering over the self-destruct button.

I also like the fact that Hal is older, that he's lived. His chemistry with Ollie is appealing in this regard, one of the reasons why I look forward to the new Justice League. The other key relationship that I think really enhances Hal's character is the aformentioned rivalry with Sinestro. Surely one of the best rivalries in comics today.

And what I like about Kyle Rayner:

As a character, Kyle Rayner is the everyman. Hal Jordan is a larger-than-life action hero, he's Jack Bauer, and that kind of hero has plenty of strengths. But Kyle is the underdog, the Peter Parker type figure who the audience can relate to. I like the fact that we've seen him grow up, and grow into his role. He's a person who's been put through the wringer, who's lost so much, yet still he remains loyal to this cause that was thrust upon him.

In terms of what he brings to the Corps in the world of the comics, I see him as being the GL whose status as an artist lets him create more intricate, crazy, out-there constructs than anyone else, which can make for a whole lot of cool moments. I like to think of him as being arguably the best ring-slinger in the Corps, when it comes down to pure technical skill, and the constructs he can summon up.

Both have plenty about them to like, IMO. But please, give us your in-depth, detailed explanation about how exactly Kyle is superior to Hal, the ways he is versatile where Kyle is a one-trick pony.

Like Aristotle said Hal is a card-board shelf character. He bores Kyle fans and DC knows that Kyle fans love the character and still **** all over him.

Hal might bore Kyle fans (or some of them). But he doesn't bore Hal fans. And if the sales of Green Lantern are anything to go by, they outnumber the Kyle fans right now. Whether or not you believe DC are crapping on Kyle, they're not doing whatever they're doing out of spite, or to stick it to Kyle's fans. If sales had slumped after Hal took over the Green Lantern title from Kyle, I doubt he'd have been secondary to Hal for long. But they didn't. Since Hal's rebirth, Green Lantern has consistently been one of DC's best-selling titles. Fans spoke with their wallets, the one way a comics company will truly listen to. DC is a business. If it was better for business to push Kyle to the foreground ahead of Hal, they'd do it. They're sticking with Hal Jordan as their flagship Green Lantern because he is making more money for them than Kyle was. That's about as far as the "agenda" reaches.

They take ION away and give it to a guy who gets his ass handed with it! WHAT WAS THE POINT OF THAT? Just stupid **** like that gets people very very very annoyed.

I actually agree this was a very dumb move. I think giving Kyle the Ion power made for a fair compromise, and made the bitter pill of Kyle losing the Green Lantern title easier to swallow for his fans. It seems a waste to lump Ion onto Sodam Yat, who we barely even see these days. Though, of course, that might change in the coming months with the next GLC arc/Legion of Three Worlds finally being released.

 

[trustyside-kick]

We just want to know why you do like Hal and if so how can you? Kyle clearly is the better GL and Character seeing as he isn't a one trick pony. Like Aristotle said Hal is a card-board shelf character. He bores Kyle fans and DC knows that Kyle fans love the character and still **** all over him. They take ION away and give it to a guy who gets his ass handed with it! WHAT WAS THE POINT OF THAT? Just stupid **** like that gets people very very very annoyed.

Aquanewb is called Aquanewb for a reason: he pales in comparison to the real Aquaman. Just like you Kyle fans hate Hal only on the fact that "Kyle is so much cooler/better". However that doesn't stop me from liking Aquanewb and it doesn't stop me from being fine if they coincide in the same title or universe. Frankly, I think the bickering between Hal and Kyle fans is one of the most childish of feuds in comics.

Also, what you guys view as "cookie cutter" may not be the same for others. Besides...Hal being a cocky, arrogant, loose cannon may not be "so original"...but what personality is?

Keep in mind, I bear no alliegence to either characters. Although I do like Kyle more for his awesome creativity in constructs. But Hal is great too.

 

[chamber-music]

I'm gonna say neither, I prefer John Stewart
*awaits inevitable hatestorm*

 

[Keyser Soze]

I'm gonna say neither, I prefer John Stewart
*awaits inevitable hatestorm*

Pffffffft.... racist.....

 

[Franklin Richards]

 

[hippie_hunter]

Kyle and Hal haven't been equals since Hal came back. That's what's rubbing the Kyle fans the wrong way. They can exist as equal in the GL franchise. There can be more then one GL at one time, unlike Batman.

Hal is incredibly uber compared to Kyle, especially if they're around each other. That's another source for conflict with the Kyle fans which needs to be addressed.

Kyle fans have got it good compared to the crap Hal fans were put through during the 90's. Even though he's no longer the main Green Lantern, he's still very well written in Green Lantern Corps. Hal on the other hand not only lost the position of main Green Lantern, but was turned into a villain and killed in a act of redemption, not heroics like Barry or Ollie.

Kyle's no longer the main Green Lantern, boo-freaking hoo. You guys act as if you got it so bad. I understand the annoyance, but Kyle fans take it way too far by acting as if Hal sucks and his fans are stupid while Kyle's character is getting raped Hal Jordan style.

They're both great characters. Kyle deserves his own book again and Hal deserves the book he has now. There's really no need for this lame argument.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Aquanewb is called Aquanewb for a reason: he pales in comparison to the real Aquaman. Just like you Kyle fans hate Hal only on the fact that "Kyle is so much cooler/better". However that doesn't stop me from liking Aquanewb and it doesn't stop me from being fine if they coincide in the same title or universe. Frankly, I think the bickering between Hal and Kyle fans is one of the most childish of feuds in comics.

Also, what you guys view as "cookie cutter" may not be the same for others. Besides...Hal being a cocky, arrogant, loose cannon may not be "so original"...but what personality is?

Keep in mind, I bear no alliegence to either characters. Although I do like Kyle more for his awesome creativity in constructs. But Hal is great too.

I think we have a winner here.

 

[Aristotle]

Kyle's no longer the main Green Lantern, boo-freaking hoo.

Why does everyone think this is our problem?

 

[Aristotle]

Also, what you guys view as "cookie cutter" may not be the same for others.

Well, they're wrong. I hate to be like that, but they're wrong. Because you can go back and look at those Silver Age comics, and you'll see that I'm correct.

Besides...Hal being a cocky, arrogant, loose cannon may not be "so original"...but what personality is?

Some personalities are more original. Like, for example, Kyle's.

 

[Aristotle]

Comics has it's ups and downs. We get epic stories like sinestro war and blackest night (which I'm assuming will be good but what do I know), and for it we have Kyle starring, well no, featured in an ensemble book rather than his own title. If Kyle was never seen, I could see people's total frustration, but as of now, we have Johns writing a good Hal book, and Tosami wiritng a better Kyle and company book.

Honestly, I would prefer to have Kyle mysteriously absent from Johns' events, rather than see him get hatcheted over and over again as a way of building up Hal. I really would.

 

[Aristotle]

Yeah, I'm sick of Kyle constantly being undermined so Hal can look stronger. What's next? Maybe Geoff Johns will do something really dumb to cement Hal's superiority, like... I dunno, having Kyle go crazy, wipe out the Guardians and the Corps, dismantle the whole mythos, so that Hal is the only Green Lanten left, then spend years having everyone tell him he's the last surviving remnant of the Green Lanterns, a single ray of hope for the universe, etc etc. Then kill off Kyle too for good measure.

Yeah, Hal is constantly undermining the rest of the GL mythos to give him a stronger niche. We never got anything like that with Kyle.

The difference (which I know is obvious to you) is that none of this was done for Kyle, because Kyle didn't exist yet. Hal wasn't shoved out of the way to make room for Ron Marz's favorite Green Lantern, he just got hatcheted. That's different. It sucks for Hal fans, but it's different.

If sales had slumped after Hal took over the Green Lantern title from Kyle, I doubt he'd have been secondary to Hal for long. But they didn't. Since Hal's rebirth, Green Lantern has consistently been one of DC's best-selling titles. Fans spoke with their wallets, the one way a comics company will truly listen to. DC is a business. If it was better for business to push Kyle to the foreground ahead of Hal, they'd do it. They're sticking with Hal Jordan as their flagship Green Lantern because he is making more money for them than Kyle was. That's about as far as the "agenda" reaches.

See, I really don't think you understand what the problem for Kyle fans is. It's not that Kyle isn't the star of the book. (It is a problem, but that's not what gets us in a rage.) The problem is that Kyle is repeatedly, over and over again, brutalized as a character, for the purpose of building up Hal. Kyle is barely recognizable, after all of the sycophantic, weak-willed, lame re-characterization that Johns has put him through.