The kyle vs. Hal thread

[The Major]

Parallax is a GL thing so that is a bad argument dude. None of those people were exposed to Parallax, and in any writer's mind, they wouldn't. That would like me saying the Black Flash should come to claim Batman when he died. Oh, but wait...that is a Flash thing.

i must have missed something. Parallax should be able to infect non-GL's he just hasn't had the opportunity to while Black Flash's only can kill Flashes.

 

[Aristotle]

Yes, this was the culmination of a gradual process of breaking down Hal's will and defenses, but this moment of great heartbreak, guilt and fear was when Parallax really took a hold of him.

Not according to Rebirth. According to Rebirth, Parallax was fully into him a long time before that.

And remember this was a weakened Parallax controlling Hal from a distance, using Hal as a pawn to free him and restore him to full stength. When Hal DID destroy the Central Battery and free Parallax... Hal fell under the thrall of Parallax instantly.

Except for that time when he re-lit the sun, or when he stopped attacking Kyle, or served as The Spectre and completely redefined the Spirit of Vengeance into a Spirit of Mercy. Yeah, Hal was a real monster. Just like when Kyle was Parallax. They both got the same treatment, toooooootally.

Kyle was in a similar state of heartbreak, guilt and fear, when he was subjected to a fully-awoken, fully-powered Parallax. And so it overpowered him.

Really? I know moms are important, but after the life he led, all it took was the death of a family member? He's not Peter Parker, he doesn't sell his soul to demons to prolong the inevitable. He's not psychotically attached to his family the way Peter Parker is. It took the destruction of a city to send Hal (who hadn't dealt with **** in his entire adult life) over the brink, but it only took Kyle (who had dealt with a lot of **** in his adult life) the death of his mother to send him over the brink?

 

[Aristotle]

Parallax is a GL thing so that is a bad argument dude. None of those people were exposed to Parallax, and in any writer's mind, they wouldn't. That would like me saying the Black Flash should come to claim Batman when he died. Oh, but wait...that is a Flash thing.

Point is, all of those people almost did something extremely drastic or did do something extremely drastic at the loss of their family members. And every person copes with it different. You mention Superman almost killing Braniac, well Bruce became Batman because of that. Aquaman's marriage fell through becaue of how he couldn't cope with it. All are examples of how different people deal with similar, extreme losses.

But you know what none of them did? Kill Jack T. Chance, that's what none of them did.

 

[fifthfiend]

No thanks, I love Guy but he tends to do about 4x more **** talking before he actually gets the job done.

So in translation, what you're really saying is that Guy is 4x more awesome than Hal, as he goes around awesomely getting the job done.

Which I mean fair enough, some people aren't equipped to handle so much awesome. And for those people, there's Hal.

 

[Keyser Soze]

So in translation, what you're really saying is that Guy is 4x more awesome than Hal, as he goes around awesomely getting the job done.

Which I mean fair enough, some people aren't equipped to handle so much awesome. And for those people, there's Hal.

To be fair, I think Guy is surely the Green Lantern that EVERYONE likes.

 

[ironman29758]

Hal. Why do you think he's call te Greatest Green Lantern.

or John Stewart

 

[Darthphere]

Hal. Why do you think he's call te Greatest Green Lantern.

or John Stewart

No one thinks that.

 

[trustyside-kick]

i must have missed something. Parallax should be able to infect non-GL's he just hasn't had the opportunity to while Black Flash's only can kill Flashes.

It wasn't the best example, but what I was saying is that why would Parallax appear in a title outside a GL-related title? Yea there are times when villains and people from other mythos crossover to another (like when Black Manta battled Green Arrow), but Parallax of all the characters from the GL mythos suddenly appearing to Superman when his father died, or Aquaman when his son died would be odd. No writer would write that in consciously--unless someone from the GL mythos would appear because Parallax is a big-time GL threat--since that is outside that character's mythos. It doesn't come to mind easily.

 

[trustyside-kick]

Really? I know moms are important, but after the life he led, all it took was the death of a family member? He's not Peter Parker, he doesn't sell his soul to demons to prolong the inevitable. He's not psychotically attached to his family the way Peter Parker is. It took the destruction of a city to send Hal (who hadn't dealt with **** in his entire adult life) over the brink, but it only took Kyle (who had dealt with a lot of **** in his adult life) the death of his mother to send him over the brink?

I wasn't sure if you were being sarcastic with an earlier comment you made in reply to my first mentioning the relationship between a mother and her son--so I do not know but it sounds like you may not be super close to your mother--but I really think you are underestimating how much that can break a person. Again though, everyone deals with loss differently. Why is it hard for you to accept that it was put into print that that was just that hard for Kyle? He loved his mom. He even tried to reanimate her lifeless body with his Ion powers...he didn't wanna let her go.

 

[The Major]

It wasn't the best example, but what I was saying is that why would Parallax appear in a title outside a GL-related title? Yea there are times when villains and people from other mythos crossover to another (like when Black Manta battled Green Arrow), but Parallax of all the characters from the GL mythos suddenly appearing to Superman when his father died, or Aquaman when his son died would be odd. No writer would write that in consciously--unless someone from the GL mythos would appear because Parallax is a big-time GL threat--since that is outside that character's mythos. It doesn't come to mind easily.

Parallax would fit into JLA. Though it also depends on whether the editorial that has hold of the character wants to "loan" it out or whether the writer asking has enough power to over-power them if they were refused. That's why Parallax has stayed mostly in the GL universe IMO.

 

[Green Lantern]

It wasn't the best example, but what I was saying is that why would Parallax appear in a title outside a GL-related title? Yea there are times when villains and people from other mythos crossover to another (like when Black Manta battled Green Arrow), but Parallax of all the characters from the GL mythos suddenly appearing to Superman when his father died, or Aquaman when his son died would be odd. No writer would write that in consciously--unless someone from the GL mythos would appear because Parallax is a big-time GL threat--since that is outside that character's mythos. It doesn't come to mind easily.

PRIME example. For DECADES Mongul was a Superman villain ONLY. Then in a Superman story, he destroyed Coast City. He has gone on to become second in the Green Lantern Rogue Gallery only to Sinestro. Just because a villain started as one hero's enemy doesn't mean it stays that way forever.

 

[trustyside-kick]

Good point, GL. But as we all know, that is not a common thing.

Which is why I would've preferred The Major didn't ignore the important part of the same post he replied to . I was replying to Aristotle's comments about all of those times the big 7 suffered great losses. How would've Parallax coming into their lives at that moment made sense? At least with Mongul becoming a GL villain as well, they used Superman's story to bridge him over. But if Parallax randomly came to Aquaman when his kid died? Frankly I'd be like "wtf?".

 

[Hush]

It's not that it doesnt make sense its just that maybe it should happen.

 

[The Major]

Good point, GL. But as we all know, that is not a common thing.

Which is why I would've preferred The Major didn't ignore the important part of the same post he replied to . I was replying to Aristotle's comments about all of those times the big 7 suffered great losses. How would've Parallax coming into their lives at that moment made sense? At least with Mongul becoming a GL villain as well, they used Superman's story to bridge him over. But if Parallax randomly came to Aquaman when his kid died? Frankly I'd be like "wtf?".

Actually it would make perfect sense for Parallax to attack allies of Kyle or Hal in the Justice League. Some are incredibly weak compared to the GL's so they'd make easy targets. The Big Seven would excellent candidates to hit and if it succeeded it could either gain a new host or kill someone they care about while the GL's elsewhere. Nothing random about that.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Didn't Parallax already try to take over Batman?

 

[trustyside-kick]

Doesn't change the fact that just because Parallax didn't come for the big 7 doesn't mean he shouldn't be able to take advantage of Kyle when he was vulnerable like that. Had Parallax come to the big 7 when those events occurred, who knows what would happen.

And Corp, I'm not sure what you mean about him trying to take over Bats. In what title/issue/story?

EDIT: All I could find thus far was in his wiki article under his abilities section and it mentions how people like Kyle Rayner and Batman who have faced inner fears pose as a problem for Parallax to take over or whatever. But even so, I'd say it depends on what they have faced thus far. Kyle's had his girlfriends and other close people hurt and killed, but again I really do think that the death of a mother is so much more potent when it is not a natural death.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

No, in GL: Rebirth, I think. Didn't Parallax take Batman over?

 

[Darthphere]

I think so, or it maybe have been the yellow ring in the lead up to the SCW.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, something like that. Batman's a creature of fear, so he's susceptible to the fear demon. Makes sense to me.

 

[BrianWilly]

Shouldn't that mean that he can control fear better, since he knows it so intimately? Like if Kyle is 75% insusceptible to Parallax because he knows fear, Batman's insusceptibleness should be OVER NINE THOUSAHGNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGHHHH

Spoiler

Anyway, I believe what you're thinking of is when Hal said that Batman and all the others were being controlled by Parallax during Rebirth #6. *shrug* Hey maybe he just used that excuse so he could one-punch him. But Parallax was in Ganthet at that point and had all of his power, so who knows, the rule could have been different then.

 

[Aristotle]

I wasn't sure if you were being sarcastic with an earlier comment you made in reply to my first mentioning the relationship between a mother and her son--so I do not know but it sounds like you may not be super close to your mother--but I really think you are underestimating how much that can break a person. Again though, everyone deals with loss differently. Why is it hard for you to accept that it was put into print that that was just that hard for Kyle? He loved his mom. He even tried to reanimate her lifeless body with his Ion powers...he didn't wanna let her go.

I'm quite close to my mother. And if I thought she died because of me, it would be terrible. But having dealt with the deaths of people I'm very close to before, I can't say it would be the thing that would break me in two. I'd give in to Parallax much sooner than that. Like, if I almost got hit by a car.

 

[fifthfiend]

Shouldn't that mean that he can control fear better, since he knows it so intimately? Like if Kyle is 75% insusceptible to Parallax because he knows fear, Batman's insusceptibleness should be OVER NINE THOUSAHGNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGHHHH

Spoiler

Nah. Think of fear as like a swimming pool full of ****. The rest of the Green Lanterns have no defense because they're all illiterate, so none of them can read the big-ass sign saying "Warning: Swimming Pool Full of ****. "Kyle's the only one who knows how to read, so he's the only one with a better than average chance of, like, not ending up covered in ****.

Batman can read, but then he's like "But I MUST jump into this pool full of ****, in order to terrorize the Gotham underworld with my ****-covered stank!" So he's the most ****-covered of everyone.

 

[BrianWilly]

Um. Hmm.

 

[Aristotle]

I thought I got it, but then maybe I didn't get it.

 

[fifthfiend]

You can tell a good analogy by the way it makes even less sense than whatever thing you were comparing it to in the first place.