The kyle vs. Hal thread

[LadyVader]

Too much negative energy perhaps.

No but really, I guess it can be kind of a drag if you like something and you wanna discuss it and be positive about it, but everybody in the thread is really negative. But really the solution is to stop going to that thread. You don't give up on the character/ comic book in discussion if you 'truly' enjoy it.

 

[Ultra-Herald9]

Not to mention that you shouldn't judge a character by his or her fans, nor should you let Corpulent's and BrianWilly's opinions have such an effect on you. I mean really... Nothing we say or do on the Hype has any weight in the world of actual comics and comic writing.

Absolute truth but its like everytime I see the character....I imagine their voices, "BOOOOOO, Kyle isn't kicking nearly enough ass in this panel!!!".

 

[LadyVader]

Well, sorry, but those are your problems, not the character's. You let them get inside your head...

How could you!?

 

[Aristotle]

First off its been ran into the ground how plausible the capturing of and conversion of Kyle was. Kyle fans just won't have it AT ALL. The great infallible KYLE WOULD NEVER FALL TO PARALLAX EVEN IN HIS UTMOST DARKEST HOUR!

Well, yeah, especially given that it was explicitly established that he was immune. And especially given that IT WASN'T HIS UTMOST DARKEST HOUR AT ALL. "Oh God, my mother died because of me! Oh, wait, I already did this once, my girlfriend died because of me, and when some supervillain tried to take my ring and my power away from me, I beat the ****ing **** out of him, and was all set to EXECUTE him, and that's when I had no experience with the ring! But no, you're right, this time around, when my mother dies because of me, and some supervillain tries to take my ring and my power away from me...yeah, **** it, I'll just become a supervillain myself. Gotta keep 'em guessin'! Real people don't act with 'consistency'!" It wasn't his darkest hour. Kyle has come through much worse than that unscathed.

not only did Kyle savagely beat Hal like he was a child during his tenure as parallax but he also hauled off and OWNED PARALLAX HIMSELF!! THE ****ING COSMIC IMBODIEMENT A ****ING FEAR ITSELF. Such ********, but it happened. PARALLAX RAN.....NOT KYLE. I REPEAT PARALLAX RAN NOT KYLE. Kyle got to walk off with a renewed sense of hope trying find a way to escape the clutches of ol' 'lax.

When the **** are you people gonna get it? It's not about winning fights! It's about symbolic events (of course, Keyser doesn't believe in basic, easy symbolism, so I can't convince him, but I'm assuming the rest of you do believe in the scientific fact of media analysis and literary symbolism.)

Not just that but KYLE NEARLY ESCAPED ON HIS OWN!! I have the issue in my hand RIGHT NOW!! Is mine a ****ing misprint???

It must be, because in my copy, Parallax says, "I have you now, Jordan." Almost as if the whole thing were a ploy?

When sucked inside HAL AND KYLE ESCAPED TOGETHER. look at page 21 panel 9 and 10!!!!!!! WTF is it??? THEM.ESCAPING TOGETHER!!!!

Exactly. A moment that should have been Kyle overcoming the fear demon (you know, the way Hal did) (the fear demon that Kyle was immune to in the first place), was changed into "The great Hal Jordan rescues the stupid Kyle Rayner, who ****ed up!"

To Kyle fans... Im sorry if your character has been micharacterized( sincerely and for real)...but I only see fairness...when i read Sinestro corp. I went in HAVING KYLE AS MY FAV GREEN LANTERN.

And now he isn't. Coincidence?

I went in having Geoff Johns as my favorite Green Lantern writer. You seem to think we all went in there planning to see Johns ****ing Kyle over. I, for one, did not. All the way through the event, I justified everything to the other guys. Brian and I in particular went at it. It took me all the way through the story before I finally realized what he was saying. And it wasn't because he convinced me; it was the end of the story, and it was me going back and re-thinking everything since Rebirth, and seeing all the patterns and all the symbolic events. I didn't want to think that Kyle was getting screwed, but he just plain was.

My point is even when I was a Kyle fan I SAW EVERYTHING AS COMPLETELY PLAUSIBLE. I SAW NO CHARACTER ASSASINATION. the thing i did see was kyle being shuffled out of the picture as the main character. BOO FREAKIN' HOO.

We've all made it very clear that what we're talking about is NOT that Kyle isn't the main character. But tell me: how many issues of the Kyle GL series did you read? What is your basis for telling me I'm wrong about his mischaracterization?

 

[Aristotle]

Absolute truth but its like everytime I see the character....I imagine their voices, "BOOOOOO, Kyle isn't kicking nearly enough ass in this panel!!!".

If anyone had that attitude, it would be a little less creepy that you imagine that. Just a little, though, still pretty creepy and weird either way.

 

[Ultra-Herald9]

If anyone had that attitude, it would be a little less creepy that you imagine that. Just a little, though, still pretty creepy and weird either way.

aww c'mon, that one was totally tongue-in-cheek. I was just trying to lighten up after that ****splosion rant.

 

[Ultra-Herald9]

Well, yeah, especially given that it was explicitly established that he was immune. And especially given that IT WASN'T HIS UTMOST DARKEST HOUR AT ALL. "Oh God, my mother died because of me! Oh, wait, I already did this once, my girlfriend died because of me, and when some supervillain tried to take my ring and my power away from me, I beat the ****ing **** out of him, and was all set to EXECUTE him, and that's when I had no experience with the ring! But no, you're right, this time around, when my mother dies because of me, and some supervillain tries to take my ring and my power away from me...yeah, **** it, I'll just become a supervillain myself. Gotta keep 'em guessin'! Real people don't act with 'consistency'!" It wasn't his darkest hour. Kyle has come through much worse than that unscathed.


Way to not get my point. Back then it wasn't FEAR INCARNATE who has the ability to instantly possess anyone who feels any small fraction of fear. Their is a very clear difference between Major Force and Parallax! HUGE. Like the difference between The Riddler and Darkseid.

When the **** are you people gonna get it? It's not about winning fights! It's about symbolic events (of course, Keyser doesn't believe in basic, easy symbolism, so I can't convince him, but I'm assuming the rest of you do believe in the scientific fact of media analysis and literary symbolism.)

It must be, because in my copy, Parallax says, "I have you now, Jordan." Almost as if the whole thing were a ploy?

You're missing my point, Kyle still escaped him infinitely easier than Hal did.

Exactly. A moment that should have been Kyle overcoming the fear demon (you know, the way Hal did) (the fear demon that Kyle was immune to in the first place), was changed into "The great Hal Jordan rescues the stupid Kyle Rayner, who ****ed up!"

Its funny how no one ever notices that Hal himself was captured as well. Could it be that......*gasp* Hal was afraid??

And now he isn't. Coincidence?

I went in having Geoff Johns as my favorite Green Lantern writer. You seem to think we all went in there planning to see Johns ****ing Kyle over. I, for one, did not. All the way through the event, I justified everything to the other guys. Brian and I in particular went at it. It took me all the way through the story before I finally realized what he was saying. And it wasn't because he convinced me; it was the end of the story, and it was me going back and re-thinking everything since Rebirth, and seeing all the patterns and all the symbolic events. I didn't want to think that Kyle was getting screwed, but he just plain was.

We've all made it very clear that what we're talking about is NOT that Kyle isn't the main character. But tell me: how many issues of the Kyle GL series did you read? What is your basis for telling me I'm wrong about his mischaracterization?[/quote]


So what Kyle fans are mad about this whole time is that Kyle wasn't potrayed INFALLIBLE ENOUGH???? You're all just mad because he wasn't written to his full potential?? Wow, you guys obviously aren't big Superman fans. You'd have to deal with that **** CONSTANTLY...

 

[trustyside-kick]

Well, yeah, especially given that it was explicitly established that he was immune. And especially given that IT WASN'T HIS UTMOST DARKEST HOUR AT ALL. "Oh God, my mother died because of me! Oh, wait, I already did this once, my girlfriend died because of me, and when some supervillain tried to take my ring and my power away from me, I beat the ****ing **** out of him, and was all set to EXECUTE him, and that's when I had no experience with the ring! But no, you're right, this time around, when my mother dies because of me, and some supervillain tries to take my ring and my power away from me...yeah, **** it, I'll just become a supervillain myself. Gotta keep 'em guessin'! Real people don't act with 'consistency'!" It wasn't his darkest hour. Kyle has come through much worse than that unscathed.

It could be easily argued that the loss of a mother is far worse than a girlfriend. Especially since she was just that: a girlfriend. Not like she was a wife he was married to for several long years. Then again, even if she was his wife, it still wouldn't matter: we're talking about the bond between a mother and her son. Think about it. It just plain makes sense that this made him a whole lot more vulnerable to what he previously, under different circumstances since it was Major Force and not Parallax, had dealt with: feeling what it is like to truly know fear.

Exactly. A moment that should have been Kyle overcoming the fear demon (you know, the way Hal did) (the fear demon that Kyle was immune to in the first place), was changed into "The great Hal Jordan rescues the stupid Kyle Rayner, who ****ed up!"

Aren't you forgetting something Ultra-Herald9 mentioned? He made a valid point when Hal needed the grand help of the Spectre whereas Kyle just needed help from a GLC friend; more specifically one who has dealt with Parallax before. You are looking at it like Johns is attacking Kyle fans. It was just a friend being that little nudge he needed. Of all the other "A-list GLs" who would you expect to be there for Kyle like that? Again, the key thing here is that Hal has dealt with Parallax before. It makes so much sense, IMO.

 

[fifthfiend]

Dude, i get so tired of hearing that "Hal has no personality" trip. Anyone who says that hasn't been reading enough GL. The dudes a ****ing badass by nature. He's arrogant, oppionated, and passionate but he is loyal as **** and he's great with the ladies.

So Hal's great because... he's a poor man's Guy Gardner?

Yeah sure that's great, or you could go read something with, y'know, Guy Gardner.

 

[fifthfiend]

Mas Y Menos are awesome. I'm going to pitch a mini with them. With all the crap DC puts out, why not?

It should be written completely in Mexican.

And then do the pages backwards, to fool kids into thinking it's the Manga.

 

[Ultra-Herald9]

So Hal's great because... he's a poor man's Guy Gardner?

Yeah sure that's great, or you could go read something with, y'know, Guy Gardner.

No thanks, I love Guy but he tends to do about 4x more **** talking before he actually gets the job done.

 

[Keyser Soze]

It could be easily argued that the loss of a mother is far worse than a girlfriend. Especially since she was just that: a girlfriend. Not like she was a wife he was married to for several long years. Then again, even if she was his wife, it still wouldn't matter: we're talking about the bond between a mother and her son. Think about it. It just plain makes sense that this made him a whole lot more vulnerable to what he previously, under different circumstances since it was Major Force and not Parallax, had dealt with: feeling what it is like to truly know fear.

Aren't you forgetting something Ultra-Herald9 mentioned? He made a valid point when Hal needed the grand help of the Spectre whereas Kyle just needed help from a GLC friend; more specifically one who has dealt with Parallax before. You are looking at it like Johns is attacking Kyle fans. It was just a friend being that little nudge he needed. Of all the other "A-list GLs" who would you expect to be there for Kyle like that? Again, the key thing here is that Hal has dealt with Parallax before. It makes so much sense, IMO.

Leave this place, trusty. Your logic and objectivity are not welcome here.

 

[Aristotle]

It could be easily argued that the loss of a mother is far worse than a girlfriend.

[bad 80s standup comedian]Clearly, you haven't met my mother! Am I right, folks![/bad 80s standup comedian]

You are looking at it like Johns is attacking Kyle fans.

The thing is, I don't think that at all.

 

[Aristotle]

Leave this place, trusty. Your logic and objectivity are not welcome here.

OK, kids, what is Keyser saying here? Here's a helpful guide:

You agree with me, therefore you are logical and objective and correct. Not like those other people who are illogical, incorrect, and ******ed. Because they don't agree with me.

Now hop in my time machine, kiddies, as we leap INTO THE FUTURE!

I just can't understand why Aristotle and BrianWilly are being such *******s. Why can't they be civil and decent like I'm being? I haven't said anything unkind about or to anyone. I am a paragon of virtue, surrounded by angry sacks of hate.

 

[Keyser Soze]

OK, kids, what is Keyser saying here? Here's a helpful guide: Now hop in my time machine, kiddies, as we leap INTO THE FUTURE!

Actually, trusty said earlier in this thread he's a Kyle fan over a Hal fan. So if anything, he'd be on "your" side. So by saying he was "objective", I was noting that, even though he prefers Kyle over Hal, he has the mental faculties to set his personal bias aside and look at the bigger picture, rather than scribbling out his own.

EDIT: And I'd rather come across as overly nicey-nice - as you seem keen to parody - than as a grumpy old fishwife, like you do.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

It could be easily argued that the loss of a mother is far worse than a girlfriend. Especially since she was just that: a girlfriend. Not like she was a wife he was married to for several long years. Then again, even if she was his wife, it still wouldn't matter: we're talking about the bond between a mother and her son. Think about it. It just plain makes sense that this made him a whole lot more vulnerable to what he previously, under different circumstances since it was Major Force and not Parallax, had dealt with: feeling what it is like to truly know fear.

I would think that'd make him truly know anger or hatred more than fear, really. His mother's already dead; what does he have to fear knowing that Parallax indirectly killed her? Nothing. He does, however, have cause to want some serious revenge. If this were the Red Lanterns' funky space animal, I could buy it. As presented with Parallax, it just didn't work for me.

 

[trustyside-kick]

I would think that'd make him truly know anger or hatred more than fear, really. His mother's already dead; what does he have to fear knowing that Parallax indirectly killed her? Nothing. He does, however, have cause to want some serious revenge. If this were the Red Lanterns' funky space animal, I could buy it. As presented with Parallax, it just didn't work for me.

Well, what about the fear of having so much power and wielding the most awesome weapon in the entire universe, and you cannot even protect the ones you care about? Fear of being useless when you're needed most. Yea, I know that is something each superhero pretty much goes through at one time or another, but how many of those same heroes lost their mother in this "superheroic war of good vs evil"?

The way I see it, you gotta look at it like that; a separate kinda situation which makes it more potent. In superhero comics you often see the villain slay the love interests and girlfriends. But when you are talking about the hero's mother or even their child? It's a whole other ballpark IMO.

 

[Darthphere]

It should be written completely in Mexican.

And then do the pages backwards, to fool kids into thinking it's the Manga.

What language is Mexican?

 

[Aristotle]

Yea, I know that is something each superhero pretty much goes through at one time or another, but how many of those same heroes lost their mother in this "superheroic war of good vs evil"?

Batman: not Parallax yet. Superman lost his father to Brainiac: not Parallax yet. Aquaman lost his kid to whichever guy that was: not Parallax yet. Flash lost his kids (and then got them back, but still) to Zoom: not Parallax yet. Wonder Woman lost her mother: not Parallax yet. Martian Manhunter: lost his entire ****ing planet: not Parallax yet. Yep, there we have it. The entire rest of the Big Seven have lost a parent or a child to the neverending battle, and they're still not Parallax. Not even a little bit. They didn't even ponder going evil over it. Superman kinda thought about beating Brainiac to a pulp, but never came close to going evil. Certainly was never in a position to succumb to a yellow fear demon. Sooooo...why's Kyle so bad at this game, exactly? Especially given that he's dealt with loss before?

By the way, one thing that often goes unremarked upon when people say, "But Hal got teh Parallaxed 2!" is that Parallax just snuck into his ring and took over his mind. In Sin Corps War, Parallax just ate Kyle's mind, basically. It was a full-frontal assault. OK, I take that back. Parallax didn't eat Kyle's mind, but Parallax was clearly present and obvious, and Kyle voluntarily became Parallax.

 

[Green Lantern]

In my opinion the problem is that Kyle fans were kinda...spoiled. They literally had only child syndrome. Back when kyle was the only green lantern from the get go he already started off being immune to the basic weaknesses that lanterns like jordan struggled with their whole career and his ring gave him massive perks beyond those before him.

No, not all of us had one child syndrome. I (like Aristotle) went back and read anything I could get my hands on. I read Hal Jordan issues. I read John Stewart issues. I read Guy Gardner issues. I read Alan Scott archives. In fact one of my favorite Green Lantern comics of all time is volume 3, issue 25. The one where Hal and Guy get into a fight over who deserves to be Green Lantern of 2814 more. It starts with great ringslinging, and ends with Hal throwing down the gauntlet (and the ring in this case) and challenging Guy to just backyard brawl for the title. It ends with Hal (much like Batman did a couple years before) one punching Guy in the face.

That said, Kyle Rayner is my favorite character in the history of comics for a variety of reasons. He was DC's answer in the '90s to what Peter Parker had been for Marvel in the '60s. He was that random guy on the street who had the most powerful weapon in the universe thrown into his lap. Guy walks out of a bar, is greeted by a blue midget who says nothing more than "You'll have to do," hands him a green ring, tells him he'll do what he must with it and vanishes. Kyle could have been anyone; you, me, Joe the Plumber. He wasn't a fearless fighter pilot. He wasn't a fearless former football player turned social worker. He wasn't hand selected by several Guardians. He was just in the right place at the right time. He had to prove himself over and over again. Fans may have liked him almost immediately, but even the one person in his world who SHOULD relate to him, gave him hell for the early parts of his career. It was only when Kyle saved the universe a few times with the JLA did everyone stop preaching about how much better Hal had been before he went nuts. Then what happens? Kyle goes back in time accidentally, and again accidentally, brings a young inexperienced Hal back with him. What happens (note again: This is YOUNG Hal, a Hal that has LESS experience than this Kyle)? The JLA welcome him with open arms, shunting Kyle off for the duration of that six issues, until Hal goes back where he belongs. The man became as powerful as a god, and used that power to selflessly bring back the Guardians. The man had the most powerful weapon in the universe, and still had to deal with human issues. Being out of work. Getting dumped. Having a good friend get the hell beaten out of him for being who he was. On top of all that he's got the kiss of death. His first girlfriend gets cut up and shoved in a refridgerator by a supervillain. His next girlfriend gets blown in two by a Superman robot. His next girlfriend (after cheating on him in his own apartment) gets killed in a Crisis. Thats gotta hinder a man's play...

I also prefer Kyle for his creativity. He's an artist, and for an aspiring artist who reads comics, that made him fun. He didn't rely on the all purpose transport bubble. He doesn't rely on summoning giant boxing gloves. No, a giant transformersesque anime inspired robot is more his style. Or midgets with bows and arrows playing cupid. Or, well you get the point. Those are my reasons for liking Kyle. And contrary to popular belief I don't HATE Hal as much as I may seem to. He is my third favorite of the Lanterns (Behind Kyle and Alan). I DO like that Johns has given him personality, which he had been lacking. I don't like that he took the limelight from Kyle, just as I won't like it when it happens to Wally with Barry. But I'm okay with it, as long as I get good Kyle stories in GLC I'm fine. Was I disgusted by the Kyleax thing? Yes. Sick to my stomach disgusted, but its over and done, and I'm not going to rant about it.

Bottom line to me, Kyle fans don't want to play fair. NOTHING has been said OR DONE that has put Hal strictly over Kyle. NOTHING. So why all the Hal hate over his supposed unjust "glorification"?? For Kyle fans, their main gripe always goes back to Sinestro Corp. with Parallax taking over kyle.....

Really my main gripe doesn't. It goes back to the fact that Hal Jordan killed millions of people, and gets off scot free because it was an alien fear bug. Thats like saying, "Well yeah, I shot 8 people. But I was drunk, it didn't count." A LOT more could have been done if it would have truly been told as a redemption story, but instead they retcon it into "Not my fault, so its okay."

Kyle fans....not only did Kyle savagely beat Hal like he was a child during his tenure as parallax but he also hauled off and OWNED PARALLAX HIMSELF!! THE ****ING COSMIC IMBODIEMENT A ****ING FEAR ITSELF. Such ********, but it happened. PARALLAX RAN.....NOT KYLE. I REPEAT PARALLAX RAN NOT KYLE. Kyle got to walk off with a renewed sense of hope trying find a way to escape the clutches of ol' 'lax.

Kyle beat Hal savagely when Hal was Parallax? When was this? Because every time the two met when Hal was Parallax that I have read (and I've read them all) Kyle was beaten quickly. Hell, in one of the times, Kyle was beaten nearly on the verge of death, and Hal was stopped from taking his ring by Ganthet with reinforcements (Wally, Carter, Ollie, Aquaman, J'onn and Superman) and Hal quickly took care of all but Superman who he took down with a supernuke. AND THEN took the ring off of Kyle's unconscious finger. It was only when Kyle woke up and refused to stop fighting (hitting Hal with a lead pipe) that Hal saw he was wrong to want the ring from Kyle.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Batman: not Parallax yet. Superman lost his father to Brainiac: not Parallax yet. Aquaman lost his kid to whichever guy that was: not Parallax yet. Flash lost his kids (and then got them back, but still) to Zoom: not Parallax yet. Wonder Woman lost her mother: not Parallax yet. Martian Manhunter: lost his entire ****ing planet: not Parallax yet. Yep, there we have it. The entire rest of the Big Seven have lost a parent or a child to the neverending battle, and they're still not Parallax. Not even a little bit. They didn't even ponder going evil over it. Superman kinda thought about beating Brainiac to a pulp, but never came close to going evil. Certainly was never in a position to succumb to a yellow fear demon. Sooooo...why's Kyle so bad at this game, exactly? Especially given that he's dealt with loss before?

By the way, one thing that often goes unremarked upon when people say, "But Hal got teh Parallaxed 2!" is that Parallax just snuck into his ring and took over his mind. In Sin Corps War, Parallax just ate Kyle's mind, basically. It was a full-frontal assault. OK, I take that back. Parallax didn't eat Kyle's mind, but Parallax was clearly present and obvious, and Kyle voluntarily became Parallax.

None of the characters you mentioned were subjected to Parallax when their loss was so fresh and raw in their minds. And you neglect to mention that Hal Jordan DID give in to Parallax in HIS great moment of loss and weakness.

Yes, this was the culmination of a gradual process of breaking down Hal's will and defenses, but this moment of great heartbreak, guilt and fear was when Parallax really took a hold of him. And remember this was a weakened Parallax controlling Hal from a distance, using Hal as a pawn to free him and restore him to full stength. When Hal DID destroy the Central Battery and free Parallax... Hal fell under the thrall of Parallax instantly.

Kyle was in a similar state of heartbreak, guilt and fear, when he was subjected to a fully-awoken, fully-powered Parallax. And so it overpowered him. It wasn't "voluntarily" like you suggest. Kyle didn't bend over and say "Take me, Parallax".

 

[Keyser Soze]

No, not all of us had one child syndrome. I (like Aristotle) went back and read anything I could get my hands on. I read Hal Jordan issues. I read John Stewart issues. I read Guy Gardner issues. I read Alan Scott archives. In fact one of my favorite Green Lantern comics of all time is volume 3, issue 25. The one where Hal and Guy get into a fight over who deserves to be Green Lantern of 2814 more. It starts with great ringslinging, and ends with Hal throwing down the gauntlet (and the ring in this case) and challenging Guy to just backyard brawl for the title. It ends with Hal (much like Batman did a couple years before) one punching Guy in the face.

That said, Kyle Rayner is my favorite character in the history of comics for a variety of reasons. He was DC's answer in the '90s to what Peter Parker had been for Marvel in the '60s. He was that random guy on the street who had the most powerful weapon in the universe thrown into his lap. Guy walks out of a bar, is greeted by a blue midget who says nothing more than "You'll have to do," hands him a green ring, tells him he'll do what he must with it and vanishes. Kyle could have been anyone; you, me, Joe the Plumber. He wasn't a fearless fighter pilot. He wasn't a fearless former football player turned social worker. He wasn't hand selected by several Guardians. He was just in the right place at the right time. He had to prove himself over and over again. Fans may have liked him almost immediately, but even the one person in his world who SHOULD relate to him, gave him hell for the early parts of his career. It was only when Kyle saved the universe a few times with the JLA did everyone stop preaching about how much better Hal had been before he went nuts. Then what happens? Kyle goes back in time accidentally, and again accidentally, brings a young inexperienced Hal back with him. What happens (note again: This is YOUNG Hal, a Hal that has LESS experience than this Kyle)? The JLA welcome him with open arms, shunting Kyle off for the duration of that six issues, until Hal goes back where he belongs. The man became as powerful as a god, and used that power to selflessly bring back the Guardians. The man had the most powerful weapon in the universe, and still had to deal with human issues. Being out of work. Getting dumped. Having a good friend get the hell beaten out of him for being who he was. On top of all that he's got the kiss of death. His first girlfriend gets cut up and shoved in a refridgerator by a supervillain. His next girlfriend gets blown in two by a Superman robot. His next girlfriend (after cheating on him in his own apartment) gets killed in a Crisis. Thats gotta hinder a man's play...

I also prefer Kyle for his creativity. He's an artist, and for an aspiring artist who reads comics, that made him fun. He didn't rely on the all purpose transport bubble. He doesn't rely on summoning giant boxing gloves. No, a giant transformersesque anime inspired robot is more his style. Or midgets with bows and arrows playing cupid. Or, well you get the point. Those are my reasons for liking Kyle. And contrary to popular belief I don't HATE Hal as much as I may seem to. He is my third favorite of the Lanterns (Behind Kyle and Alan). I DO like that Johns has given him personality, which he had been lacking. I don't like that he took the limelight from Kyle, just as I won't like it when it happens to Wally with Barry. But I'm okay with it, as long as I get good Kyle stories in GLC I'm fine. Was I disgusted by the Kyleax thing? Yes. Sick to my stomach disgusted, but its over and done, and I'm not going to rant about it.
Really my main gripe doesn't. It goes back to the fact that Hal Jordan killed millions of people, and gets off scot free because it was an alien fear bug. Thats like saying, "Well yeah, I shot 8 people. But I was drunk, it didn't count." A LOT more could have been done if it would have truly been told as a redemption story, but instead they retcon it into "Not my fault, so its okay."

Kyle beat Hal savagely when Hal was Parallax? When was this? Because every time the two met when Hal was Parallax that I have read (and I've read them all) Kyle was beaten quickly. Hell, in one of the times, Kyle was beaten nearly on the verge of death, and Hal was stopped from taking his ring by Ganthet with reinforcements (Wally, Carter, Ollie, Aquaman, J'onn and Superman) and Hal quickly took care of all but Superman who he took down with a supernuke. AND THEN took the ring off of Kyle's unconscious finger. It was only when Kyle woke up and refused to stop fighting (hitting Hal with a lead pipe) that Hal saw he was wrong to want the ring from Kyle.

Really good, articulate post, and probably the best pro-Kyle argument of the entire thread so far.

 

[LadyVader]

Brilliantly said Green Lantern! I agree with you whole heartedly. Though I would add that it's amazing to see the kind of growth Kyle has had in the 15 or so years he's been around. He's evolved and he's also a versatile character. 14 years ago we couldn't possibly imagine Kyle as a leader of a brand new GL corps and yet here he is. A role model for the rest of the GL corps to look up, much more than they look up to Hal because Kyle is more approachable and he's also there by their side.

 

[trustyside-kick]

Batman: not Parallax yet. Superman lost his father to Brainiac: not Parallax yet. Aquaman lost his kid to whichever guy that was: not Parallax yet. Flash lost his kids (and then got them back, but still) to Zoom: not Parallax yet. Wonder Woman lost her mother: not Parallax yet. Martian Manhunter: lost his entire ****ing planet: not Parallax yet. Yep, there we have it. The entire rest of the Big Seven have lost a parent or a child to the neverending battle, and they're still not Parallax. Not even a little bit. They didn't even ponder going evil over it. Superman kinda thought about beating Brainiac to a pulp, but never came close to going evil. Certainly was never in a position to succumb to a yellow fear demon. Sooooo...why's Kyle so bad at this game, exactly? Especially given that he's dealt with loss before?

Parallax is a GL thing so that is a bad argument dude. None of those people were exposed to Parallax, and in any writer's mind, they wouldn't. That would like me saying the Black Flash should come to claim Batman when he died. Oh, but wait...that is a Flash thing.

Point is, all of those people almost did something extremely drastic or did do something extremely drastic at the loss of their family members. And every person copes with it different. You mention Superman almost killing Braniac, well Bruce became Batman because of that. Aquaman's marriage fell through becaue of how he couldn't cope with it. All are examples of how different people deal with similar, extreme losses.

 

[Hush]

Green Lantern made a great post, i think he said what me and Aristotle have been saying but in a more formal way. Though I do get colorful with my use of language, the SCW issue just really has been something that has kept me from reading GL and really I can't stand what i see as Hal praising in every issue. Just recently Hal is made out to be the one to LEAD the blue corps and seen as Ganthets main man. Why would'nt it be Kyle i mean he was the Torchbearer, that is a symbol of hope! That sounds really stinking dumb but i mean come on how in anyway does Hal express hope? Really? Im being honest should something that is so clearly a characteristic of Kyle really be given to Hal so lightly? Not being an ass, just really need to know.