The official SUPERMAN/BATMAN discussion thread

Discussion in 'DC Comics' started by Binker, Mar 6, 2006.

  1. Binker

    Binker Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    6,872
    Likes Received:
    87
    Just like the my JUSTICE (which no one has went to for a while!) I decided to do a review topic on Superman/Batman, another one of my favorite titles.

    To start off, I decided to review the first three arcs as a whole before going on its current arc; With a Vengeance. On that arc though, since its last issues for be released this month, I think I'll review that arc the same as the others.

    Arc 1: PUBLIC ENEMIES

    The World's Finest, we all that name. No, not the website. I'm talking about THE World's Finest: Superman and Batman. Before the new title, we saw either their team ups in either the Batman books, the Superman's, JLA, or etc (since theres alot). Now, the great Jeph Loeb gives us a title that has that team up in goo stories. Simply titled Superman/Batman.

    The first pages tell it all:

    "The dream always begins the same. My parents... Jor-El and Lara put me in the rocket as the planet Krypton breaks apart."

    "The nightmare always begins the same. My parents... Thomas and Martha Wayne take my hands as we leave the theatre."

    "I can only imagine how difficult it was for them sending their only son into outer space... as their world died around them."

    "I can only imagine the fear that gripped them when the gunman stepped out of the shadows... never knowing that these were their last moments alive."

    This explains how light Superman is and dark Batman is. By comparsion, I can't even think of them being friends Pre-Crisis 1986. It feels better here with them seeing the other as an ally and trust each other while not really agreeing with their actions.

    One of the good things about this book, if not the whole series, is that this doesn't focus just on Superman & Batman. Here, we're given the JLA, JSA, and Outsiders with Robin and Batgirl joining. And a new Toyman, ally mind you and his...well you would have to see it. If you never got JLA, like me, this is your replacemnt 'til Vol. 3 launches. And like HUSH, this is important since Luthor says "there will be....a CRISIS!"

    Now, the bad: theres good action moments but this leads to character development is at a minimum. If you haven't been getting Superman, you may be at a lost by the previous Supergirl. Since she's only featured here and never again. Your choice is either

    a ) Ignore it.

    b ) Get SUPERMAN: THE 10 CENT ADVENTURE #1, SUPERMAN VOL. 2 #190, & SUPERMAN VOL. 2 #200 to have the beginning and end to THAT Supergirl.

    c ) Or...since Power Girl doesn't appear once this Supergirl does. Put in you brain and pretend that THAT Supergirl is actually Power Girl with a costume change because she wanted to change.

    There are others but the main one: in the infinite expanses of space this asteroid just so happens to be on course to hit the earth? Drawn by Superman. Let me say this: this is better resolved in the nexr arc: Supergirl of Krypton. So you need both.

    Overall, this was a great read or readers who haven't gotten, at all or in the long time, or ones who have gotten in their lives: Superman and Batman.

    Rating: 8/10

    Arc 2: SUPERGIRL

    The previous arc on the asteriod continues and is resolved here with the appearence of Kara Zor-El, Supergirl. And a fight of sorts between Superman and Batman. Supes thinks she's the real deal, Bats however says she could be an impostor and they should be careful. And he's right, why did Superman let her in the Fortress when he waited a long time to do the same to Superboy.

    How Superman feels is directly due to the fact that in this book, he explains why he's alone. Once Supergirl appears, he goes out of his way to bring her in, literally. And he's not gonna let Krypto (the dog is here) keep on barking at her, Batman saying she may not who she is, Wonder Woman (yes, SHE's in here too) just kidnap her and take her to the amazons, and Darkseid lay a finger on her.

    Now thats cool.

    Since the reboot, the rule was Superman was the ONLY survivor of his planet. Superboy appeared but was a clone. Many Post-Crisis Supergirls appeared too each with differernt origins. And Krypto appeared in his 2000 appearecne created from a Krypton trap to lure SUperman, the sog followed him home after.

    With this Supergirl, I thought they were braking their own rules set in 1986. I guess her being the second and only second survivor was fine when she appeared. And she was cool so I had no beef as no one else did. (Her current Supergirl series does explain her more complete detailed origin but I'll review that as a special on a later date)

    Wonder Woman, Big Barda and the whole DC superheroes and teams appear in this arc as since this series gives us more characters than just the World's Finest. Wonder Woman and Big Barda are the important ones too as they are important to the plot of the story. At first, I thought WW was a little evil at the Supergirl kidnap, like Batman. I didn't like it at first, nor them. But when I realized that they were helping her since she was inexperienced I cleared that up.

    Oh, the art. This is Michael Turner. When he does women, you go geeky. K? k.

    Overall; while I did not explain any bad parts because...I couldn't find any, this gives you another good story and should be bought along with Public Enemies.

    RATING: 8.9/10

    Arc 3: ABSOLUTE POWER

    When you talk about Superman or Batman, or even both, you have to talk about their origins. They're widley known by all. This story firasts bring you that. We see the familar elements of the Kents seeing Kal-El and the murder of the Wayne parents. But then, something bad happens: the Kents get killed and so does the murderer of Bruce Wayne's parents. The people take the baby and 8-year old child to their care. Now, Superman/Batman are the world's mightiest rulers with an iron fist.

    This breaks away from the other two arcs as they are about the current continunity. This is parellel universes and what-ifs. And what I said, that ain't it. Theres more universes with differenr settings/actions, etc. It was cool and interesting on these what-ifs, even what would happen if Batman got the killer and save the parents of his.

    Uncle Sam, Wonder Woman once more, the resurrected JLA, and Selina Kyle (I like what she was wearing) appear in this. Including the return of Kingdom Come Superman after his apperence in Public Enemies. Including a cameo of the Legion of Superheroes and their villians.

    I don't wanna spoil but I have to say this: when Batman stopped the killer and saved his parents' lives which caused a great reaction (of course) and the world would end up being ruled by Ra's Al Ghul. When you think about it, and the great possibilites if Krypton never exploded. Are these tragidies really tragidies? I quote Batman in War on Crime "...my parents deaths were the best thing to ever happen to me..." BEST THING. With what these heroes face, and we face and the endless possibilites of both, are these bad stuff actually great?

    I don't know.

    Before I go, here's some bad points: the climax was fine by me and others see it as weak and not fully explained. Why were Batman and Superman bouncing around from alternative reality to alternative reality every time, and why were they being attacked by a bunch of DC's western hero's like Jonah Hex and Scalp Hunter in alternate Gotham? I'll leave that to you. Doesn't mean you can't get the book.

    Overall; this was another exciting arc of Superman/Batman.

    RATING: 8/10

    Coming soon: the regular issues and the entire fourth recent arc.
     
  2. Binker

    Binker Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    6,872
    Likes Received:
    87
    #7:

    Part of the good things from this series is that Superman/Batman isn't just about them. More DC characters come in and interact with them. They are important as the big two like the plots are.

    In the case of this issue, we have another World's Finest team but still from the Superman and Batman families: Superboy & Robin. As teenagers, and in their Teen Titans book, they have problems teens face. But because they are teenagers, they think and act in ways that adults like their mentors can't. Which makes them different. For instance; Superboy & Robin are best buddies. You know what I mean when you compare them to their mentors.

    In this story, Superboy & Robin are aksed by their mentors to see if the new, friendly, Toyman wants to be part of Batman's team. When it seems like Toyman's answer is a "no", they soon have to fight Metallo and his mecha stoled by the Toyman.

    Toyman was in the first arc "Public Enemies". This issue is sort of a sequel to Toyman's involvment in the first arc, not its main plot. Since Toyman is japanese, just like in the first arc, expect mechas like in animes in this.

    This issue is a quickie and its average. I would recommend it since theres nothing really wrong with it. Its just a good Superboy/Robin story. But it isn't REALLY needed in the case of Public Enemies nor the Supergirl arc which started after this. I'm not good in saying about art. Its fine, it looks like they're in a fog. I don't what I meant from that. So sorry.

    In case you ask; this isn't in the Public Enemies TPB or HC. You'll have to find the issue itself to read it.

    RATING: 7/10
     
  3. XwolverineX

    XwolverineX Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,143
    Likes Received:
    0
    Since th' Supergirl arc it sucked. I dropped it..
     
  4. Binker

    Binker Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    6,872
    Likes Received:
    87
    #19:

    After #7, we were given another World's Finest in Superboy & Robin. This second stand alone issue features on the return of a old character in a new fashion in post-Crisis and was introduced in this series: Supergirl.

    Story: Batman and Superman have been watching Supergirl, one still wondering about her and one isn't, but this isn't so undercover as they think as she already knows them spying on her. But she ain't pisted at them, she's pisted at the other person spying on her.

    #7 was a sequel to Public Enemies, this time #19 is a prequel of sorts (maybe just a prequel) to the new Supergirl series. The new series connects itself to this issue and the #0 issue of course. For art; it was pretty good. At tiems I thought it was by Lee but of course it wasn't. On the art based on Lee, maybe.

    In case you ask; similar to #7 not in the Public Enemies TPB or HC, this issue isn't on the TPB/HC on the Supergirl arc. And it won't be in the Supergirl TPB in June. You'll have to find the issue itself to read it.

    RATING: 7.5/10
     
  5. BlackOpsTengu

    BlackOpsTengu Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2004
    Messages:
    366
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'll be honest, Public Enemies and the Supergirl arcs of Superman/Batman got me back into reading comics.:up:
     
  6. Binker

    Binker Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    6,872
    Likes Received:
    87
    Thats good. Hey, whats better than two iconic superheroes in one book?

    Once its done, I will review the "With the Vengenace" as a whole.
     
  7. Calendar Man

    Calendar Man Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    2,000
    Likes Received:
    0
    SPOILER ALERT for #24:

    The Joker kills Batzarro!
     
  8. Purple Man

    Purple Man Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,780
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just a few notes.

    Superman/Batman #19 is the same comic as Supergirl #0

    Jonah Hex and the rest of the Western characters were killing Superman and Batman because the president (Lex Luthor) wanted them dead.

    Superman and Batman were bouncing around realities because of the human bombs explosion near the time (and likely reality hopping) machine.

    The Legion of Adult Heroes were gathered infront of their Pre-Crisis headquarters.

    Uncle Sam gets a Green Lantern ring.

    Lightning Lord, Saturn Queen and Cosmic King are old Superboy (Clark Kent when he was a kid pre-crisis) villains.

    Metallo may be the person who killed the Waynes. Batman stops his parents killer in Absolute Power, he should know who it was since he remembers just about everything that happend in these alternate realities.

    In the latest story arc we get to see DCs version of the Ultimates (along with Wolverine and Spider-Man knockoffs)

    Superman from Red Son and Batman from Batman Beyond are shown with Batzarro and Bizarro respectively.

    'Batzarro: Worlds Worst Detective' Gotta love that.

    Batwoman and Superwoman in issue 24. Also every Supergirl ever.

    My favorite book on the stands.
     
  9. Mogwai

    Mogwai Fanboy

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2005
    Messages:
    3,998
    Likes Received:
    0
    I always look forward to this book. Good stuff.
     
  10. Ultimate_Superman

    Ultimate_Superman Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Messages:
    11,999
    Likes Received:
    0
    I just wish this book wasn't so late I mean this issue is almost 3 months or more late.
     
  11. Green Lantern

    Green Lantern Brightest Day

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2004
    Messages:
    7,187
    Likes Received:
    0
    See how well you can hold a deadline when your son dies. At least Loeb has an excuse unlike say... Hitch or Wheden
     
  12. hippie_hunter

    hippie_hunter The King is Back!

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2003
    Messages:
    53,331
    Likes Received:
    0
    The first arc of Superman/Batman was great. And set off some important things to occur in the DC Universe, particularly the fall of Lex Luthor. Though I wonder why writers are ignoring the fact that Bruce Wayne is now the owner of LexCorp.

    The second arc with Supergirl started off great but then some really stupid moments occured such as Batman being able to to defeat not only one Doomsday but numerous Doomsdays, Batman being able to survive an encounter of fighting Darkseid, and Superman being able to defeat Darkseid. Also Binker, Turner sucks drawing women. His art isn't as bad as people say, but his women are just horrible.

    Superman/Batman started to really suck afterwards to the point where the was no reason to pick it up. The writing was bad, especially Absolute Power. There was no superstar artist to back him up like Jim Lee does for Frank Miller in the craptastic All-Star Batman and Robin: The Boy Wonder. Superman/Batman was once one of the most important books in the DC Universe but because of severe delays and crappy writing it was eventually ignored.

    Also for a book called Superman/Batman, is there really a need to put in so many heroes, such as Wonder Woman, Green Arrow, the Freedom Fighters, and others, in the book. When I read a book called Superman/Batman, I want to read about Superman and Batman. Not Superman and Batman interacting with the Harbinger, Artemis, and Big Barda. I'll go and read John's Teen Titans, Winnick's Outsiders, Levitz's JSA, and Meltzer's Justice League of America, when I want read a book staring a large amount of heroes. All-Star Batman and Robin: The Boy Wonder suffers from this same problem.

    In my opinion, Superman/Batman should get canceled for the new Brave and the Bold book that Mark Waid is doing with George Perez or simply change it into a Trinity book and include Wonder Woman in the adventures of Batman and Superman.
     
  13. Ultimate_Superman

    Ultimate_Superman Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Messages:
    11,999
    Likes Received:
    0
    I do agree that it would be a better book if it was just and Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman and thats it.
     
  14. Purple Man

    Purple Man Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,780
    Likes Received:
    0
    Let me shoot a few holes through your argument.

    Batman being able to take out a Doomsday clone?

    Two things: It was an animate made by Dr.Bedlam so it wasn't an exact clone. And, Paradise Island axe, probably enchanted.

    Carlos Pacheo may not be a "superstar" artist, but he can draw a hell of a comic. He did a great job on Green Lantern as well.

    As I said before.

    Great book.
     
  15. El Bastardo

    El Bastardo Literary elitist

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Messages:
    6,045
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'd say Hitch's excuse is the final product. That said, I'm not trying to downplay Loeb's loss. I'm just saying.
     
  16. El Bastardo

    El Bastardo Literary elitist

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Messages:
    6,045
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's your choice and viewpoint, sure. But isn't saying that a book titled Superman/Batman shouldn't guest-star or use outside characters the same as saying that heroes should not have any contact with those not in the title of the book? Therefore, the Batman title should be retitled Batman & Robin if we want to have Robin in it.
    And if the comic is titled The Outsiders, why should it star any character but those in The Outsiders? Heh.

    The book is titled Superman/Batman. It is about and stars centrally Superman and Batman. Other characters just wind up along for the ride. It's become a fun book of adventures, probably DC's version of Marvel's Cable&Deadpool.
     
  17. hippie_hunter

    hippie_hunter The King is Back!

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2003
    Messages:
    53,331
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm not saying that they shouldn't have had guest stars, I'm saying that Superman/Batman went overboard with the guest stars. WAY OVERBOARD. That was about half the books focus, on guest stars.
     
  18. hippie_hunter

    hippie_hunter The King is Back!

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2003
    Messages:
    53,331
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's still f**king Doomsday, Batman should never be able to land any attack on Doomsday, with an enchated axe or not, even on a clone of Doomday.

    I'm not saying the art sucked. Pacheo is a good artist. In my opinion the book needed a superstar artist to make up for the delays, to make up for the crappy story telling, and it fell into obscurity in the continuity of the DC Universe.
     
  19. BlackOpsTengu

    BlackOpsTengu Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2004
    Messages:
    366
    Likes Received:
    0
    "Batman should never be able to land any attack on Doomsday"

    That's the stupidest most biased anti-Batman crap I've ever heard. BOOSTER GOLD was able to land hits on the REAL Doomsday, as were the SCU with firearms, CADMUS with their shock cannons and even Apache helicopter pilots with their missiles, and Batman can't on a Doomsday clone? Please, take the "BATMAN SHOLD NOT BE A SI A GOD!1!" stuff elsewhere.
     
  20. hippie_hunter

    hippie_hunter The King is Back!

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2003
    Messages:
    53,331
    Likes Received:
    0
    And those attacks did nothing. There's a difference between a failed attack and a successful attack.
     
  21. BlackOpsTengu

    BlackOpsTengu Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2004
    Messages:
    366
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, you said Batman should never be able to LAND a hit on Doomsday. Accuracy is different from effectiveness.

    And Magic Uber +20% when HP ^50% Axe of Undead Doomsday Slaying > ******ed Doomsday Clone. The Amazonians had the weapons to take down the Clones, but not the skills without taking massive casualties. That's why Batman showing them how its done was so cool.
     
  22. Purple Man

    Purple Man Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,780
    Likes Received:
    0
    Batman with an axe was an amazing sight.

    Those Doomsdays didn't have close the power or the mental prowess of the original.

    Cloning Doomsday would probably be much harder than cloning a Kryptonian. And if you do manage to clone something similar, it would most likely be a watered down freak.

    I can't wait until the Powergirl/Huntress issue.
     
  23. Sky Captain

    Sky Captain Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    0
    This came out today, right? I really, really wanted to get it...but I'm falt broke (unless I can get it for 75 cents) and if anybody did get it, HOW IS IT??? :supes: :batman:
     
  24. El Bastardo

    El Bastardo Literary elitist

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Messages:
    6,045
    Likes Received:
    0
    It came out today? >.>

    My store didn't have it, then.
     
  25. Mogwai

    Mogwai Fanboy

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2005
    Messages:
    3,998
    Likes Received:
    0
    issue 25 comes out may 3rd, and 26 comes out may 24.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"