The Last Defenders

[PhotoJones]

For rizzeal. Guys like Gaiman wouldn't be caught dead with a Rob Liefeld creation. Moore just wants to tell good stories.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

He somehow finds a way to tell really good stories that make sense in the context and gel with the established characters too, no matter what the property. Wildcats was so god-awful before Moore, but then he came along and simply shifted the focus to some different elements that were already there, threw in a compelling racial and moral conflict, and the series got a thousand times better.

 

[Dread]

Yeah, Moore is good.

Anyway, has there been any other angle to the Defenders thing we haven't picked to death yet?

 

[PhotoJones]

He somehow finds a way to tell really good stories that make sense in the context and gel with the established characters too, no matter what the property. Wildcats was so god-awful before Moore, but then he came along and simply shifted the focus to some different elements that were already there, threw in a compelling racial and moral conflict, and the series got a thousand times better.

I need to go back and read his Wildcats run. I've been reading his Tom Strong series for the last couple of weeks. I ****ing love that book.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

His ABC series are all on my "must read... one day" list.

 

[PhotoJones]

They're all excellent, but I think Tom Strong is probably my favorite. Moore wasn't trying to be cerebral with it. It's just good, old fashioned fun storytelling.

 

[Roughneck]

I want Angel to be on this team......Because I loved when Casey was writing Angel in UXM..........

 

[Dread]

I want Angel to be on this team......Because I loved when Casey was writing Angel in UXM..........

Considering Angel was in prior incarnations of the Defenders, funding the team and such, it wouldn't be completely inane. Granted, between the Regenades and Messiah Complex, he is busy, too. Plus, they probably want to leave Nighthawk alone as the "rich flying guy who tries to fund & lead the team".

I'd prefer Iceman or Beast, actually. We're getting Colossus, who Casey missed out on writing since he was dead at the time, so we'll see how that goes.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Actually, scratch the Renegades off that list. He's not on the Renegades anymore because there is no Renegades anymore. They were a WWH-only team, it seems. Now it's just Herc and Cho hanging out. Sad, since there seemed to be a romance blossoming between Herc and Namora, which has lots of interesting potential, but it frees Angel up to be on any team he wants.

Iceman needs to stick with the X-Men, in my opinion. Carey's finally allowing him to mature into real leadership material, which is a godsend since he's basically been the goofy screw-up of the original five for about forever. I want Iceman and Cannonball to stick together, too.

Beast, on the other hand, would be great, especially if being on the Defenders allowed him to rediscover his sense of humor. Since he went catty, he's been really, really boring and serious, in spite of the fact that he and Bobby were the X-Men's class clowns for a lot of years prior.

 

[Roughneck]

Considering Angel was in prior incarnations of the Defenders, funding the team and such, it wouldn't be completely inane. Granted, between the Regenades and Messiah Complex, he is busy, too. Plus, they probably want to leave Nighthawk alone as the "rich flying guy who tries to fund & lead the team".

I'd prefer Iceman or Beast, actually. We're getting Colossus, who Casey missed out on writing since he was dead at the time, so we'll see how that goes.

Yeah I kinda typed my brain words out wrong...what I kind meant basically was I want Carey to Write Angel again....but I don't want him in this team, for the Nighthawk reason you said as well as for Colossus's sake....I don't want any more X-men on this team, Just Colossus. Otherwize people might lump it in as an X-book or something, I want Colossus to shine as a member of this team....not one of the X-men on it....y'know?

though I do kind of find both he and She Hulk on the same team a little Redundant.....Speaking of she Hulk quickly and breifly I am glad that Slott found a way to clear up the Juggernaut sex thing...just never said that on the boards, it was great and made sense and stuff..

Anyway, I do want Carey to get back to writing Angel because I was really liking the forming story of Warren Worthington III For President.....Maybe in this new Less Mutant Populated, registered heroes fifty state initiative America a Mutant could become President.

Actually I think this story should be picked up......with all the X-men goign thier own ways I could see it happening, Angel would go into politics (a La beast of X3) and his Secret Service could be some Mutant buddies....then of course his opponents would dig up some dirt on him (Dating Underage Girls and Known Prostitutes for Example) the Freinds of Humanity could rear their heads..........it could be cool...

Going off on a whole new tangent, I think after Messiah the X-men will be all different, i think they will accept that the Mutant Race is ending, and they will deicde they no longer need to Police the mutant population, they will just be Super Heroes and Super Villains now....Cyke will keep a team and they will just fight crime, some will go to other teams (Wolverine, Colossus) and I think that some will retire (those being the ones that really only fought for mutant rights, they will see no need in it now) Magneto (if repowered) might even become a Champion of Justice since he has no more cause for fighting.....prolly not though.




And another point back on Subject, in an Interview with Mark Millar he stated that in his second arc for Fantastic Four he's created a new group of Defenders that will kidnap Dr Doom......Anyone else read that and wonder?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Like many things Millar says, it made me wonder why he's still allowed to write superhero comics.

 

[Anubis]

It'd be like Scuicide Kings with Super Powers!

On a related note, Christopher Walken should totally play Doom in the next Movie.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'd support that.

 

[Dread]

Actually, scratch the Renegades off that list. He's not on the Renegades anymore because there is no Renegades anymore. They were a WWH-only team, it seems. Now it's just Herc and Cho hanging out. Sad, since there seemed to be a romance blossoming between Herc and Namora, which has lots of interesting potential, but it frees Angel up to be on any team he wants.

Iceman needs to stick with the X-Men, in my opinion. Carey's finally allowing him to mature into real leadership material, which is a godsend since he's basically been the goofy screw-up of the original five for about forever. I want Iceman and Cannonball to stick together, too.

Beast, on the other hand, would be great, especially if being on the Defenders allowed him to rediscover his sense of humor. Since he went catty, he's been really, really boring and serious, in spite of the fact that he and Bobby were the X-Men's class clowns for a lot of years prior.

So the Renegades are finished, eh? Least that will free up Namora for the Agents of Atlas if they ever show up again, which would require Parker on a 616 book or another writer, perhaps Slott or Kirkman, to utilize them. It might be interesting if Angel tagged along.

Sticking with the X-Men has rarely helped Iceman, and as I wasn't reading Carey's stuff I have no idea what he is doing with him.

Beast has been "non-silly" since before he went all kitty during Morrison's run. I recall WIZARD moaning about that during the late 90's, when Beast was essentially in X-Limbo and Busiek & Perez were still on Avengers and probably would have loved to have made Beast a regular. Until Morrison's run he spent months/years in the background "working on a Legacy Virus cure". So the issues with Beast being "serious" started before Joe Q's tenure.

Apparently there is a sense that the audience prefers it, Beast being the X-Men's resident genius with a quip or too, rather than yucking up with Wonder Man. As you have noted, Cecila Reyes is "MIA", literally, from the X-verse and the X-verse seems to either kill or "vanish" new characters within a year or less, and then wonder why they stay so stagnant, so Beast has the overall doctor role to fill. Still, Beast led the Defenders on occasion and even reorganized the team.

If you want "funny Beast", you have to stick with X-MEN: FIRST CLASS.

Yeah I kinda typed my brain words out wrong...what I kind meant basically was I want Carey to Write Angel again....but I don't want him in this team, for the Nighthawk reason you said as well as for Colossus's sake....I don't want any more X-men on this team, Just Colossus. Otherwize people might lump it in as an X-book or something, I want Colossus to shine as a member of this team....not one of the X-men on it....y'know?

though I do kind of find both he and She Hulk on the same team a little Redundant.....Speaking of she Hulk quickly and breifly I am glad that Slott found a way to clear up the Juggernaut sex thing...just never said that on the boards, it was great and made sense and stuff..

No, I understand your desires about Colossus. Some people have been turned off to the fact that the new NEW WARRIORS is populated by 95% former X-characters, led by Night-Thrasher II. While that has worked over there, I can understand the desire to not see other teams aflush of X-refugees.

I agree about the fear of Colossus and She-Hulk being on the same team with compariable powers, especially since on paper She-Hulk is superior because she is stronger, regenerates, and is probably at least as durable if not tougher. The few details that Colossus has over She-Hulk that are of any use in combat (potential resistance to some magic, sword-skills learned from Nightcrawler during his Excaliber days) are rarely mentioned too often, aside for his not needing to breathe (and to be fair, She-Hulk has been TKO'd with gas rather often). But we'll have to see how Carey manages it.

How's Slott clear the Juggernaut thing?

Anyway, I do want Carey to get back to writing Angel because I was really liking the forming story of Warren Worthington III For President.....Maybe in this new Less Mutant Populated, registered heroes fifty state initiative America a Mutant could become President.

Actually I think this story should be picked up......with all the X-men goign thier own ways I could see it happening, Angel would go into politics (a La beast of X3) and his Secret Service could be some Mutant buddies....then of course his opponents would dig up some dirt on him (Dating Underage Girls and Known Prostitutes for Example) the Freinds of Humanity could rear their heads..........it could be cool...

Going off on a whole new tangent, I think after Messiah the X-men will be all different, i think they will accept that the Mutant Race is ending, and they will deicde they no longer need to Police the mutant population, they will just be Super Heroes and Super Villains now....Cyke will keep a team and they will just fight crime, some will go to other teams (Wolverine, Colossus) and I think that some will retire (those being the ones that really only fought for mutant rights, they will see no need in it now) Magneto (if repowered) might even become a Champion of Justice since he has no more cause for fighting.....prolly not though.

Those are some interesting ideas. I am not sure many will happen, but they are interesting. Although the "Magneto as a hero" angle has been done before and never works or lasts. Hell, the last some someone had Magneto actually do something nasty, like blow up NYC, it was retconned via Xorn.

And another point back on Subject, in an Interview with Mark Millar he stated that in his second arc for Fantastic Four he's created a new group of Defenders that will kidnap Dr Doom......Anyone else read that and wonder?

Millar is Marvel's A-List, so firstly, if Millar makes a team that contradicts Carey's TLD, Marvel will allow him, because he is Millar. Secondly, the odds of Hitch releasing more than 2 issues on time are rather high, even if he had 100 years, a pocket reality and an army of assistants. Thirdly, it is been proven that Millar is a hardcore alcoholic, and they're not always responsible for what they say or write. Even if they get paid for it.

And lastly, Millar is all about the Cool Moment. Whether any of his story makes sense in building that up and resolving it afterwards is always a hit or miss affair. But at least he will have a lot of sarcastic bickering and a lot of action sequences.

 

[Roughneck]

Okay, So During Austen's Run on Uncanny, Juggernaut was in Canada where he beat up Rhino (Who was tested on and mutated by the Canadian Government.....that story didn't really pan out) and then Juggs was confronted By Alpha Flight, he gave up willingly because he was reformed blah blah blah.....Xavier called in She Hulk as a Lawyer for the case and eventually she had some bed shattering Sex with him.

Then occasionally throughout Slott's She Hulk Run folks would mention her sleeping with Juggernaut, most memorably when she propositioned wolverine and he said he didn't want juggernaut's Sloppy Seconds. She always protested saying that she didn't sleep with Juggernaut.

Then in Slott's last arc there was this thing where folks could vacation from another universe, like if say Hank McCoy is a normal Human in that world, he would take this vacation and when here (There....616) he would be the Beast, powers and all. So Anyway turns out that a Jen Walters from there came over and was running around as She Hulk, Our She Hulk confronted her and asked if she slept with juggernaut, she admited that it was her.

Therefore 616 She Hulk didn't do the Nasty with Cain...even though I was cool with it.

 

[Dread]

Okay, So During Austen's Run on Uncanny, Juggernaut was in Canada where he beat up Rhino (Who was tested on and mutated by the Canadian Government.....that story didn't really pan out) and then Juggs was confronted By Alpha Flight, he gave up willingly because he was reformed blah blah blah.....Xavier called in She Hulk as a Lawyer for the case and eventually she had some bed shattering Sex with him.

Then occasionally throughout Slott's She Hulk Run folks would mention her sleeping with Juggernaut, most memorably when she propositioned wolverine and he said he didn't want juggernaut's Sloppy Seconds. She always protested saying that she didn't sleep with Juggernaut.

Then in Slott's last arc there was this thing where folks could vacation from another universe, like if say Hank McCoy is a normal Human in that world, he would take this vacation and when here (There....616) he would be the Beast, powers and all. So Anyway turns out that a Jen Walters from there came over and was running around as She Hulk, Our She Hulk confronted her and asked if she slept with juggernaut, she admited that it was her.

Therefore 616 She Hulk didn't do the Nasty with Cain...even though I was cool with it.

I see. Yeah, that was the arc where Slott claimed he would "clean up" continuity errors, like some of the Young Avengers joining the Initiative.

It sounds...well, conveluted to me. I am not sure I like it. I doubt it will be used again, though.

So, basically, alternate reality versions of 616 characters vacation on 616 and can muck up their histories. Gotcha.

Wolverine, of ALL people, has NO right to criticize the sexual habits of others. He's slept with practically all of Asia and Madripoor. He merrily made out with Jean while she was married to Cyclops. He happily had sex with Mystique in disguise knowing full well who she was, just 'cause. In about a generation or two, half of all kids in Madipoor will have Logan's bizarre hairdo genetically.

Thanks for the rundown.

If Colossus IS split up with Kitty after MESSIAH COMPLEX (thus making Whedon's scenes with them useless in AXM), then coming aboard a team with a single and jaded She-Hulk will be, um, interesting.

 

[PhotoJones]

Joe Casey talked with CBR today about The Last Defenders and displayed some inked preview art (which looks very nice). He knows what he's talking about:

I bug Wacker all the time about how this should be a monthly series. I have no idea what the rationale of the higher-ups could possibly be to saddle this with miniseries status, since books like these almost always do better when they're brought out as a continuing, monthly series. Fans want to really invest themselves in team books; they like the ongoing engagement with the characters when the book's done well, and I think this book is some of the best work I've ever done on a mainstream title so naturally I'd love for it to go on and on. I just hope, if the readers respond and the sales are there, that Marvel doesn't waste any time putting this series on the monthly treadmill. But that could be the hallucinogenics talking. Right now we're just concentrating on knocking these six issues out of the ****in' park.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=12742

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I like the art, but everyone looks a bit too beefy. Like, seriously, check out those necks. Ah well, it still looks good and is really dynamic.

I like that Kyle's still hanging out with Gargoyle in the preview. But, like Casey, I wish this were an ongoing too. Casey and the cast are enough to instantly hook me for the long-term.

 

[PhotoJones]

Hopefully it'll do well and Marvel will screw the pooch ending with Casey's disinterest and Muniz' defection to DC.

Oh, wait.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

 

[PhotoJones]

Muniz draws a hell of a Gargoyle, though.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I keep thinking Malcolm from Malcolm in the Middle is drawing this comic.

 

[PhotoJones]

I thought he was a drug addicted former kid star now.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

He could still draw comics.

 

[PhotoJones]

He wouldn't have the time. He's busy wrecking his car and trying to convince chicks he's "old enough."