Superman Returns The lifting of NK = Utterley Heroic?

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Ok, so i love all of the other action scene's in the movie, especially the plane scene which is one of the best action scene's in ANY CB movie IMO. But, if you look at it, Superman was never in danger himself in that scene. I know, i know Superman is always thinking of others, but there is no danger whatsoever to him in that scene and this is why the lifting of NK just 'gets' to me more on an emotional level. Had Superman failed to save the plane, yes thousands would have potentially died, but Superman would have still been there to prevent other disasters around the world. But in the lifting of NK scene, there is just so much more at stake.

If Superman fails in this scene, not only do "Billions" of people die, but so does Superman, and this is pretty certain considering he almost dies by simply succeeding to get it off of Earth. Not only would the Earth lose a country or two, but it would lose its great hero also. I know many of the haters didnt like this scene and found it boring or repetitive, but i find it to be one of THE most heroic acts in any Superhero movie, and that is something i expect of Superman in ANY medium, any one else agree?

 

[superbaby]

Ok, so i love all of the other action scene's in the movie, especially the plane scene which is one of the best action scene's in ANY CB movie IMO. But, if you look at it, Superman was never in danger himself in that scene. I know, i know Superman is always thinking of others, but there is no danger whatsoever to him in that scene and this is why the lifting of NK just 'gets' to me more on an emotional level. Had Superman failed to save the plane, yes thousands would have potentially died, but Superman would have still been there to prevent other disasters around the world. But in the lifting of NK scene, there is just so much more at stake.

If Superman fails in this scene, not only do "Billions" of people die, but so does Superman, and this is pretty certain considering he almost dies by simply succeeding to get it off of Earth. Not only would the Earth lose a country or two, but it would lose its great hero also. I know many of the haters didnt like this scene and found it boring or repetitive, but i find it to be one of THE most heroic acts in any Superhero movie, and that is something i expect of Superman in ANY medium, any one else agree?

you know... singer would cry if he heard this...

 

[afan]

I would agree, with this qualification, his action placed Luthor and his gang in mortal peril, which resulted in the death of three of Luthor's cohorts, and a narrow escape for Luthor and Kitty.

A truly Superman-like heroic effort would have included, at personal risk and peril, insuring the safety of the aforementioned, even tho they nearly beat him to death.

 

[buggs0268]

I have to agree. Superman goes out of his way to save even his worst enemies. the only time I know of Superman truly trying to kill someone is Doomsday. The only other time I know of him trying to really do harm to someone was the neighbor he had in Metropolis who was beating his wife. Clark could take no more of overhearing it and got Batman in his sorry butt. oh, there is also the time he wasnt going to stop until he was wiping darksied off of the bottom of his boot in JLA. Flew him up to a high altitude as Superman and threatened to drop him. Other than that, he goes after personal risk to save those whom would harm him.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

If Superman fails in this scene, not only do "Billions" of people die, but so does Superman, and this is pretty certain considering he almost dies by simply succeeding to get it off of Earth. Not only would the Earth lose a country or two, but it would lose its great hero also. I know many of the haters didnt like this scene and found it boring or repetitive, but i find it to be one of THE most heroic acts in any Superhero movie, and that is something i expect of Superman in ANY medium, any one else agree?

I dont think people dislike it because it was boring or repetitive, I think people dislike it because two scenes prior he could barely walk while standing on it and a small piece of it in his back rendered him almost dead, and then all of a sudden he can lift an entire continent of it into space with giant kryptonite shards right in his face. Thefilm was inconsistent within itself. Kryptonite physically effects him to the point that it will eventually kill him. He can't ignore the physical effects of it's radiation just by willing it. The scene wasn't "utterly heroic" it was utterly ridiculous.

 

[buggs0268]

I dont think people dislike it because it was boring or repetitive, I think people dislike it because two scenes prior he could barely walk while standing on it and a small piece of it in his back rendered him almost dead, and then all of a sudden he can lift an entire continent of it into space with giant kryptonite shards right in his face.

Oh man. I got to let you know you just opened up a can of worms. Let's get this straight. I totally AGREE WITH YOU (argued it for many a day), but you are now going to be subjected to the "tainted Kryptonite" defense. I understand what they are saying, but it still makes no sense, and is a cop out. But here we go again. Sitting back and cracking open a case of YooHoo.

 

[Super Kal]

it wasn't heroic to me

 

[Dr. Fate]

Oh man. I got to let you know you just opened up a can of worms. Let's get this straight. I totally AGREE WITH YOU (argued it for many a day), but you are now going to be subjected to the "tainted Kryptonite" defense. I understand what they are saying, but it still makes no sense, and is a cop out. But here we go again. Sitting back and cracking open a case of YooHoo.

It is a can of worms that must be open.

I also agree, from a logistical standpoint within the Superman mythos, Superman shouldn't have even been able to land on NK given that the whole island was a big friggin' chunk of Kryptonite. A small fragment of the stuff is enough to make Superman weak at the knees, an island sized rock of kryptonite would kill him before he even landed on it, thus making his so called "heroic" effort to hurl the thing into space seem ridiculous as Hulk said.

 

[true316]

Ok, so i love all of the other action scene's in the movie, especially the plane scene which is one of the best action scene's in ANY CB movie IMO. But, if you look at it, Superman was never in danger himself in that scene. I know, i know Superman is always thinking of others, but there is no danger whatsoever to him in that scene and this is why the lifting of NK just 'gets' to me more on an emotional level. Had Superman failed to save the plane, yes thousands would have potentially died, but Superman would have still been there to prevent other disasters around the world. But in the lifting of NK scene, there is just so much more at stake.

If Superman fails in this scene, not only do "Billions" of people die, but so does Superman, and this is pretty certain considering he almost dies by simply succeeding to get it off of Earth. Not only would the Earth lose a country or two, but it would lose its great hero also. I know many of the haters didnt like this scene and found it boring or repetitive, but i find it to be one of THE most heroic acts in any Superhero movie, and that is something i expect of Superman in ANY medium, any one else agree?

You've really touched on what I like about the scene. It is very heroic. I also like the scene in the plane leading to the lifting of NK. Superman has that look on his face like he knows he is going to die. This time when he leaves he says goodbye to Lois (unlike the last time he left not knowing whether he would return). It shows that he has developed as a character and that he has learned from past mistakes. Very rarely, do we see comic book film heroes march into situations where they know they are probably going to die. That makes the scene very powerful for me so yeah I agree with you.

 

[El Payaso]

I dont think people dislike it because it was boring or repetitive, I think people dislike it because two scenes prior he could barely walk while standing on it and a small piece of it in his back rendered him almost dead, and then all of a sudden he can lift an entire continent of it into space with giant kryptonite shards right in his face. Thefilm was inconsistent within itself. Kryptonite physically effects him to the point that it will eventually kill him. He can't ignore the physical effects of it's radiation just by willing it. The scene wasn't "utterly heroic" it was utterly ridiculous.

Yeah, audiences care for Kryptonite coherence too much nowadays.

 

[CGHulk]

So it's heroic, but Superman having a small piece of Kryptonite in his side and a whole island full of Kryptonite that he lifts is rediculous, he was weakened by just landing on it and he could get the crap beaten out of him for just standing on it. What's even more rediculous is that he didn't feel the effects of the Kryptonite, only after he got his ass handed to him by Lex knocking him down. When he was flying towards New Krypton he should of felt the effects of the radiation coming from the kryptonite in the island, a whole bloody island!! But don't get me wrong, lifting an island into outer space is heroic, but Superman carrying a whole island of Kryptonite is well, WRONG!!!. Singer should of done his homework, or should of used his brain!

 

[El Payaso]

Ok, so we'll keep ignoring NK was covered with a thick layer of regular land, that Lex explained the crystals merged with the material recovering them so it's not pure Kryptonite and that the sun re-charged Superman enough to make him able to drill around NK so he wouldn't have direct conntact with the Kryptonite core for a while, which is what happened since we didn't see the Kryptonite coming right away.

Just to be aware.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Oh man. I got to let you know you just opened up a can of worms. Let's get this straight. I totally AGREE WITH YOU (argued it for many a day), but you are now going to be subjected to the "tainted Kryptonite" defense. I understand what they are saying, but it still makes no sense, and is a cop out. But here we go again. Sitting back and cracking open a case of YooHoo.

Its a valid argument though Buggs, Lex said it himself "They inherit the traits of the minerals around them...." meaning they inherited the traits of both earth AND Kryptonite. If it had JUST been Kryptonite, then it would have inherited the traits of pure K, but the crystal inherited earth as well, meaning the Kryptonit must not have been pure. I dont see how that doesnt make sense.

You've really touched on what I like about the scene. It is very heroic. I also like the scene in the plane leading to the lifting of NK. Superman has that look on his face like he knows he is going to die. This time when he leaves he says goodbye to Lois (unlike the last time he left not knowing whether he would return). It shows that he has developed as a character and that he has learned from past mistakes. Very rarely, do we see comic book film heroes march into situations where they know they are probably going to die. That makes the scene very powerful for me so yeah I agree with you.

EXACTLY, you can see from his face he expects to die from this, yet still goes willingly to do his duty. Dont see that often in a CB movie.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I have to agree. Superman goes out of his way to save even his worst enemies. the only time I know of Superman truly trying to kill someone is Doomsday. The only other time I know of him trying to really do harm to someone was the neighbor he had in Metropolis who was beating his wife. Clark could take no more of overhearing it and got Batman in his sorry butt. oh, there is also the time he wasnt going to stop until he was wiping darksied off of the bottom of his boot in JLA. Flew him up to a high altitude as Superman and threatened to drop him. Other than that, he goes after personal risk to save those whom would harm him.

Well i think that is silly because if Superman can survive a fall from the edge of space back down to earth, so could Darkseid.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Yeah, audiences care for Kryptonite coherence too much nowadays.

how about general plot coherence?

That being said, I didnt realize I was speaking for "audiences," I thought I was giving my opinion on the situation?

Ok, so we'll keep ignoring NK was covered with a thick layer of regular land, that Lex explained the crystals merged with the material recovering them so it's not pure Kryptonite and that the sun re-charged Superman enough to make him able to drill around NK so he wouldn't have direct conntact with the Kryptonite core for a while, which is what happened since we didn't see the Kryptonite coming right away.

Just to be aware.

regardless of what NK was covered with or merged with, it still affected him in completely different ways in different scenes. If you want to take the "unpure Kryptonite" stance fine, but that still doesnt explain why it bothered him so much the first time then when he was just standing on the layer of "thick land" as you say...

And regardless of how much sun he soaks up the stuff is going to weaken him and then kill him, and when he's lifting NK up in the air, it's right in his damn face.

 

[mego joe]

I would agree, with this qualification, his action placed Luthor and his gang in mortal peril, which resulted in the death of three of Luthor's cohorts, and a narrow escape for Luthor and Kitty.

A truly Superman-like heroic effort would have included, at personal risk and peril, insuring the safety of the aforementioned, even tho they nearly beat him to death.

Ditto.

 

[buggs0268]

how about general plot coherence?

That being said, I didnt realize I was speaking for "audiences," I thought I was giving my opinion on the situation?




regardless of what NK was covered with or merged with, it still affected him in completely different ways in different scenes. If you want to take the "unpure Kryptonite" stance fine, but that still doesnt explain why it bothered him so much the first time then when he was just standing on the layer of "thick land" as you say...

And regardless of how much sun he soaks up the stuff is going to weaken him and then kill him, and when he's lifting NK up in the air, it's right in his damn face.

Exactly. And that stuff is pure. It is pure Kryptonian crystals and pure Kryptonite. So it is pure stuff from Krypton. And trust me I have argued that plot hole to ad-nauseum with these guys and still..well you will see. Give it a few more pages to this thread.

 

[El Payaso]

how about general plot coherence?

No problem there so nothing about it.

That being said, I didnt realize I was speaking for "audiences," I thought I was giving my opinion on the situation?

Let's see...

I dont think people dislike it because it was boring or repetitive, I think people dislike it because two scenes prior he could...

care to read your own posts before replying. Thanks.

regardless of what NK was covered with or merged with, it still affected him in completely different ways in different scenes. If you want to take the "unpure Kryptonite" stance fine, but that still doesnt explain why it bothered him so much the first time then when he was just standing on the layer of "thick land" as you say...

In fact it took a long time while before he started just to feel a little sweaty.

After he re-charged himself with the sun I guess he had some minutes before feeling the effects again.

And regardless of how much sun he soaks up the stuff is going to weaken him and then kill him, and when he's lifting NK up in the air, it's right in his damn face.

And after a few moments - just as you said - it starts to weaken him and then kill him.

 

[El Payaso]

Exactly. And that stuff is pure. It is pure Kryptonian crystals and pure Kryptonite. So it is pure stuff from Krypton.

Inside a rock. Once the crystals of kryptonite are there, so are the effects.

And trust me I have argued that plot hole to ad-nauseum with these guys and still..well you will see. Give it a few more pages to this thread.

Sounds like you've been unconvincing?

 

[\S/JcDc\S/]

If you want to take the "unpure Kryptonite" stance fine, but that still doesnt explain why it bothered him so much the first time then when he was just standing on the layer of "thick land" as you say...

And regardless of how much sun he soaks up the stuff is going to weaken him and then kill him, and when he's lifting NK up in the air, it's right in his damn face.

It bothered him the first time because he was as you said STANDING on the land. It surrounded him completely. When he went to lift NK he burrowed underwater and lifted up the land before any kryptonite reached him. He started to sweat only when the kryptonite started growing closer to him giving the same effect it had as it is now closer to the proximity it was when he was actually standing on it.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

care to read your own posts before replying. Thanks.

care to read that I was replying to the question asked by rephrasing it. Thanks.

In fact it took a long time while before he started just to feel a little sweaty.

After he re-charged himself with the sun I guess he had some minutes before feeling the effects again.

well that's an assumption on your part.

And after a few moments - just as you said - it starts to weaken him and then kill him.

weakening him to the point of doing something simple like being able to stand is one thing, but weaken him while he's lifting up a billion pound continent of it is another.

 

[\S/JcDc\S/]

Hulk what did you think of my explanation? Hope it made sense.

 

[matthooper]

The thing is, no one outside of these boards cares one bit. The people here either think it's utterly rediculous, or heroic. But no one else cares and that's the problem. No one else came out of that theater saying, wow, wasn't that was a great scene when he lifted that giant rock...and that was supposed to be the most powerful scene. Heroic? Possibly, but who besides us cares?

Singer took liberties, that's a fact. Defenders make their own excuses as to why it made sense, and haters sometimes can find more fault than there really is. Singer doesn't understand the character or the characters world. Which is funny since he based it on Donner's world where one rock around his neck made him drown in a swimming pool. To me that fact is by the NK lifting, I just didn't care anymore, so dissecting it is useless. Singer didn't care about the character, and I didn't care either. It's Superman in name only. The fact that he let the bad guys die is just one more rediculous flaw in Singerman.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

Jeez, how many times to we have to go through this

1) New Krypton was not pure Kryptonite. Lex explains that the crystal creates a structure using the minerals surrounding it, that is why the fortress is white and made from ice. Meaning that new krypton is created with minerals from kryptonite, water and the sea bed.

2) It takes him a long time to feel the effects of New Krypton when he first lands, therefore it is consistent that it should take a while for him to feel the effects when he is lifting it

3) There is a large portion of land separating Superman from the Kryptonite when he is lifting NK, the kryptonite does not start breaking through the land until he is about to through it

4) The sun does recharge him to the point the where he can resist this new kryptonite for longer periods. Is that an assumption on my part? Absolutely not, it is clearly shown.

 

[buggs0268]

All I know is, no matter how you guys try ot explain it, both times I came out of the theater after atching it people didn't understand why he could stna on it andbe de-powered, and yet he could lift it minutes later. And Kryptonite is still kryptonite. Singer just got lax. And the whole secen just came off as a "been there, seen that". AS one reporter for Entertainment Weekly put it: "I fell asleep, and when I woke up again, Superman was doing battle with a rock."