Apocalypse The LUCAS TILL / ALEXANDER SUMMERS discussion thread - "We have to call him Havok"

[pavlov]

So Jamie, as in Multipleman, as in the 25 - 35 year old guy we saw in Last Stand. Which would make his date of birth somewhere between 1971 and 1981. So he'd be somewhere between 2 and 12 years old. Now if you try the 'Last Stand has been erased Last Stand and Multipleman could have been born earier in this new timeline' (which many of us have already explained doesn't hold water) he would still need to be born post 1973, so at best he'd be 9 or 10 years old.

In other words...

You can't use Multipleman, a character we've been introduced to, and the First Class Havok, unless you do it in say the 1990's or 2000's and make that Havok very, very old (as compared to the others)!

Sorry, the older brother of Cyclops idea just isn't a good way to go. Just one more way in which this X-movieverse's continuity has been seriously hurt!

You want Havok on X-Factor with Polaris and Jamie and Guido like I do, then you need to somehow have a new Havok character brought in that is the younger brother of Scott, so in say the 2000's a government team could be made that has all of these characters and fits this timeline!

By the way, for reference, if they were to create a younger brother to Scott,who is say a couple of years younger (and they could make 1962 Havok their Uncle) then this is how old each would be in say 2000:

Havok: 30-ish
Polaris: Hasn't been seen in the movies yet (unless she was Pietro's younger sister)
Multpleman: 20-something
Quicksilver: 40-ish
Strong Guy: Hasn't been seen in the movies yet.
Wolfsbane: Hasn't been seen in the movies yet.

If you wanted to use the First Class Havok in a time setting around 2000 then he would be approximately 60 years old or so, give or take a couple of years! That just doesn't work!

Let's just say that Multiple Man in TLS was the same age as Scott. He could still appear in XMA as a young man (around 18 years old). An older Havok on X-Factor makes sense as he is supposed to be a leader. And there isn't any need to recast since it seems that mutants age much slower than humans anyway (see OT cast in DOFP as reference).

Having an uncle Havok and a junior baby brother Havok seems a bit contrived for me. Good fan-servicing but not a mark of good writing.

 

[danoyse]

A lot of stupidity just got deleted from this thread, so let's just clarify a few things:

Someone expressing an opinion you don't agree with is not trolling. It is a difference of opinion. Deal with it.

Using said complaint as a free for all with obnoxious GIFs is also not acceptable.

If people can't follow those rules, more than a few people here will be taking time off so they can learn. So knock it off.

 

[MakeMinesMarvel]

Havok needs to cameo at the very least. He's a part of the FC continuity.

 

[Super Jim]

It wasn't a mark of good writing to put Havok, who is supposed to be Scott Summers' younger brother, in a movie set in 1962, when the Scot Summers character was shown in a story that supposedly took place around 2005!

I will give you that they could try to say that Multiple Man was the same age as Cyclops in Last Stand, which means he could be around 18 in 1983. At the same time Havok should be around 40 in this same movie.

IF (and that's a huge IF) they did an X-Factor movie and did it in the mid 1980's, then they could get away with it. Yes, having Mutliple Man more than half the age of Havok would be odd, but as you indicate, it wouldn't be terrible. If they brought in Polaris and made her say mid-30's, so Havok and she could have a relationship, along with Quicksilver, who would be mid-20's or so, and Strong Guy, who could be early 20's as well, then they would have an amazing cast.

Unfortunately, I believe they are going to instead go with the Multiple Man led Investigations TV show, which means it will likely take place in the "present", which means they will be very limited to what characters they can use.

It will likely be something like this:

Multiple Man = Leader
Strong Guy = The muscle
Wolfsbane = The tracker

And maybe characters such as Siryn (and they won't explain how that's possible, since her dad died back in 1964), Rictor, and maybe M.

As you can see, no Havok or Polaris would be possible!

Which means no Lucas Till as Havok, the leader of X-Factor!

 

[MakeMinesMarvel]

Havok as an older half brother solves the problem

 

[GuestStar2004]

Unfortunately, I believe they are going to instead go with the Multiple Man led Investigations TV show, which means it will likely take place in the "present", which means they will be very limited to what characters they can use.

It will likely be something like this:

Multiple Man = Leader
Strong Guy = The muscle
Wolfsbane = The tracker

Wasn't there rumours of quicksilver being involved too though?

Film Divider also reports that the idea of using Jamie Madrox AKA Multiple Man (who was played by Eric Dane in X-Men: The Last Stand) has been “kicked around seriously” and “seems to be more than just a possibility.” That might sound vague, but if the series is going to be based on David’s run of the X-Factor series then both Multiple Man and Quicksilver would likely be part of the line-up, along with Polaris, Havok and several others.

Right now i don't think there is anything putting it in the present anyway, unless you are still hanging on to the idea they won't use any characters they already used a little bit in X3

 

[Super Jim]

I'd be very surprised if they came out with a tv show based on the X-Factor Investigations and didn't place it in the "present", or at least post-2000...

IMO, doing that would prevent the use of Havok (Lucas Till), due to age, which would defeat the purpose of using Polaris.

Doesn't mean they couldn't allude to the fact that some of them used to be on a government sponsored team from which they took their name, which would mean they would leave a possibility of some day having a period piece based on X-Factor, that would include Havok, Polaris, a younger Multiple Man, etc.

 

[GuestStar2004]

IMO, doing that would prevent the use of Havok (Lucas Till), due to age, which would defeat the purpose of using Polaris.

Thats possibly a reason they would make it a period piece, lucas till, Evan Peters ect

 

[Super Jim]

But if it was going to be a period piece, then why not just go with X-Factor and not X-Factor Investigations?

They could do an X-Factor film set in 1985 with Till, Peters, a new Polaris (30-something year old actress - like Alice Eve, Elisha Cuthbert or Michelle Monaghan), Strong Guy, Multiple Man and Wolfesbane; along with Val Cooper and maybe Forge!

But no, they will do this Investigations tv series, which means that Madrox is the leader, not Havok!

 

[GuestStar2004]

They could do an X-Factor film set in 1985 with Till, Peters, a new Polaris (30-something year old actress - like Alice Eve, Elisha Cuthbert or Michelle Monaghan), Strong Guy, Multiple Man and Wolfesbane; along with Val Cooper and maybe Forge!

But no, they will do this Investigations tv series, which means that Madrox is the leader, not Havok!

But who says havok can't be apart of it? plus i don't see them doing X-factor as a movie since the name alone doesn't quite have the X-Force ring to it and FOX have taken long enough to go ahead with even an X-Force movie let alone an X-Factor film with probably lesser big characters really

the rumour was that fox were thinking about including quicksilver after how well he was received in DOFP

 

[kasjan]

Multiple Man could take care team when Havok die.

 

[Super Jim]

My point is that if they are doing the Multiple Man led investigations, then likely it is in the "present", or at least years after 1983 (if it is a period piece - say in the 90's or something).

If that is the case then Havok is likely not part of it. They are not going to have this Investigations series set in the mid 80's with a 20-something kid (Multiple Man) as the leader along with a 40-something year old Havok as just a member of the team.

It would be like putting Skye as the leader of Agents of Shield with Coulson as just a member of the team.

Yes, they couldn't do X-Factor as a movie out of the gate, unless they named it X-Men: Team X-Factor, or something where they would get the "X-Men" tagline. Now "New Mutants" could work since it gets to use the crucial "mutant" nomenclature.

But, if they did create an X-Factor Investigations tv show, and it ended up being, at least somewhat popular, then they could do a kind of X-Factor Origins movie that would be a period piece and include younger versions of some of the Investigations team, and that could include Till as the original leader of the government sponsored team.

 

[kasjan]

If it's in present and it's tv show, Havok can be dead, and Multiple Man is leader, then bring back Eric Dane.

 

[GuestStar2004]

My point is that if they are doing the Multiple Man led investigations, then likely it is in the "present", or at least years after 1983 (if it is a period piece - say in the 90's or something).

If that is the case then Havok is likely not part of it. They are not going to have this Investigations series set in the mid 80's with a 20-something kid (Multiple Man) as the leader along with a 40-something year old Havok as just a member of the team.

It would be like putting Skye as the leader of Agents of Shield with Coulson as just a member of the team.

They put a late teens Havok in a team in the 60s with a late 20s charles before presumably scott was even born, why does it matter what they do that's different with the characters now? It's the ball game with this film series, expect things to be different

Why would it have to be years after the 80? They are telling the apocalypse story in the 80s, why is there a resctrition now?

 

[Super Jim]

You're not getting what I'm saying.

The restriction is due to their use of Havok as an ~18 year old in the 1962 set First Class.

My points are as follows:

1. IF they end up doing the X-Factor Investigations it's most likely going to be Jamie Madrox, Multiple Man, as the leader. This goes along with canon and the rumor. Jamie, at best, could be say 18 years old or so during the 1983 Apocalypse movie (not saying he'll be in it - just aging him for reference). IF they decided to make this Investigations tv series a period piece it's more likely that they would want a slightly older Multiple Man as the leader, which means doing it in either the "present" or at least years after this Apocalypse movie, meaning at least the 1990's or so (so he would at least be mid-twenties).

2. Would they really want to make this tv series a period piece? Yes, there was some success with Agent Carter, which was a period piece, but that was based on an established character as kind of a prelude origin story for another "sucessful" tv series, Agents of Shield. This would be very different than an out of the blue X-Factor Investigations tv series.

3. IF they put this in the past, say in the 1990's, and wanted to use Havok (Till), they would need to stay (or at least should) consistent with the character that they first introduced in the 1962 set First Class. In the mid-90's that Havok would be like 50 years old or something. And it's hard to buy the idea of a 50 something year old Havok (Lucas Till) as just a member of the Investigations team led by an twenty something Madrox!

4. IF they instead decide to make this Investigations series in the present, which seems more likely, then they would likely make Madrox somewhere around 50 years old. That's stretching things, but it's in the realm of possible. Even if they made the series set in say the mid 2000's (which is unlikely cause if you're going to go with the 2000's, then why not just go with the present) then he would be around 40 years old. The point is that it makes more sense for the leader of this Investigations team to be elder, as compared to some of the other characters. The present or at least the 2000's makes the most sense for Madrox as the leader. Also, for age reference, if Madrox was say mid-20's in Last Stand (even though that story may now have never happened) then in the "present" he would be mid to late 30's, which is perfect for a leader.

5. If Madrox is the leader then Havok will almost 100% not be included. If it's set, as discussed above, in the present, making Madrox an age that making him the leader is believable, then Havok would be in his mid-70's!!!!! That's extremely unlikely to be used!

6. Also, one of the main reasons to use Havok is for the relationship with Polaris, and nobody wants to see a 70 something Havok hooking up with Polaris! The other reason for wanting Havok would be him being the brother of Scott, but they kind of ruined that in this movie-verse!

7. If they go forward with this Madrox led Investigations tv series, which matches the rumors, and it's set in the present (or at least the 2000's), then the likely characters will be Madrox, Strong Guy, Wolfsbane, and a few others. This is a pretty good line-up, and as you can see does not include Havok or Polaris. They would not be needed to make this series good!

8. If they went forward with this, and made Madrox and some of the others 30-40 years old, along with some other younger characters (to cater to youth - like Agents does), the older characters can discuss how they used to be on a government sponsored team called X-Factor. And this can end up leading to an origin movie that could include Lucas Till's Havok and Polaris, along with younger versions of Madrox, Strong Guy and Wolfsbane; along with Peter's Quicksilver! They could even have a picture on the wall as a nod.

 

[psylockolussus]

If it's in present and it's tv show, Havok can be dead, and Multiple Man is leader, then bring back Eric Dane.

I'd rather see Multiple Man lead the TV show and I think Havok should stay in the movies.

 

[Super Jim]

^ So we're in agreement!

 

[GuestStar2004]

You're not getting what I'm saying.

The restriction is due to their use of Havok as an ~18 year old in the 1962 set First Class.

My points are as follows:

1. IF they end up doing the X-Factor Investigations it's most likely going to be Jamie Madrox, Multiple Man, as the leader. This goes along with canon and the rumor. Jamie, at best, could be say 18 years old or so during the 1983 Apocalypse movie (not saying he'll be in it - just aging him for reference). IF they decided to make this Investigations tv series a period piece it's more likely that they would want a slightly older Multiple Man as the leader, which means doing it in either the "present" or at least years after this Apocalypse movie, meaning at least the 1990's or so (so he would at least be mid-twenties).

2. Would they really want to make this tv series a period piece? Yes, there was some success with Agent Carter, which was a period piece, but that was based on an established character as kind of a prelude origin story for another "sucessful" tv series, Agents of Shield. This would be very different than an out of the blue X-Factor Investigations tv series.

3. IF they put this in the past, say in the 1990's, and wanted to use Havok (Till), they would need to stay (or at least should) consistent with the character that they first introduced in the 1962 set First Class. In the mid-90's that Havok would be like 50 years old or something. And it's hard to buy the idea of a 50 something year old Havok (Lucas Till) as just a member of the Investigations team led by an twenty something Madrox!

4. IF they instead decide to make this Investigations series in the present, which seems more likely, then they would likely make Madrox somewhere around 50 years old. That's stretching things, but it's in the realm of possible. Even if they made the series set in say the mid 2000's (which is unlikely cause if you're going to go with the 2000's, then why not just go with the present) then he would be around 40 years old. The point is that it makes more sense for the leader of this Investigations team to be elder, as compared to some of the other characters. The present or at least the 2000's makes the most sense for Madrox as the leader. Also, for age reference, if Madrox was say mid-20's in Last Stand (even though that story may now have never happened) then in the "present" he would be mid to late 30's, which is perfect for a leader.

5. If Madrox is the leader then Havok will almost 100% not be included. If it's set, as discussed above, in the present, making Madrox an age that making him the leader is believable, then Havok would be in his mid-70's!!!!! That's extremely unlikely to be used!

6. Also, one of the main reasons to use Havok is for the relationship with Polaris, and nobody wants to see a 70 something Havok hooking up with Polaris! The other reason for wanting Havok would be him being the brother of Scott, but they kind of ruined that in this movie-verse!

7. If they go forward with this Madrox led Investigations tv series, which matches the rumors, and it's set in the present (or at least the 2000's), then the likely characters will be Madrox, Strong Guy, Wolfsbane, and a few others. This is a pretty good line-up, and as you can see does not include Havok or Polaris. They would not be needed to make this series good!

8. If they went forward with this, and made Madrox and some of the others 30-40 years old, along with some other younger characters (to cater to youth - like Agents does), the older characters can discuss how they used to be on a government sponsored team called X-Factor. And this can end up leading to an origin movie that could include Lucas Till's Havok and Polaris, along with younger versions of Madrox, Strong Guy and Wolfsbane; along with Peter's Quicksilver! They could even have a picture on the wall as a nod.

No I still don't get it, seems like you are just using the comics to validate it when this film series hasn't really done that, hey you could use multiple man to a period piece and set it in past so you could evan peters in the role to grab the audience since he was popular, and even lucas till as Havok To guessed in a few episodes if you wanted, in the end there is no restriction there

All I can see is you really do not want them to attept anything that feels like a reckon and yo are expecting everything to be like the comics or not at all, but like apocalypse there is gonna be a few surprises that ain't like the comics, just wait and see, not sure how you will deal with those at his rate

 

[pavlov]

Lucas and Evan have TV stars written all over their faces. I wanna see X-Factor as a government-run covert operative investigating mysterious mutant murders. In my ideal roster, I wanna have the ff:

Havok - seasoned 36 y.o. Leader
QS - rebellious 29 y.o. second in command
Polaris - 27 y.o. younger sister of QS and Havok's love interest
Guido - 30+ team's muscle
Rhane - 23 y.o. Reclusive new recruit
Multiple - 18 y.o. Youngest team member
Forge - 30+ the brains

 

[Super Jim]

So you would change it up and make the X-Factor Investigations led by Till's Havok.

Although I could see that, all of the rumors indicate that they want to go with the Multiple Man led group, so although I love your X-Factor line-up, it's very unlikely that this will be a period piece and will include Havok and Polaris!

 

[GuestStar2004]

i don't get why you believe its either black or white, its either lucas till leading it in the past or multiple man leading it in the future and no way to just ignore parts of the comics and throw them together, and yes if fox and Co haven't proven the comics can be ignored then i dunno what will

truth is mutiple man could be retconned to the 80s if you wanted, hey you could set it in the 90s and have him in his 20s since the X-Men would be in their 20s too and by X3 they could all be around the same age anyway and they looked like a fine age

there isn't really anything that says well its multiple man so obviously = future

but then again... the X3 version wasn't all that great anyway

 

[Super Jim]

All I'm saying is that if they go with Havok as the leader it would pretty much have to be in the past, likely in the 80's or so, due to his age. First Class Havok's age is pretty finite. If he was say 18 in First Class (1962) then he would be 39 in Apocalypse (1983).

A 39 year old Lusa Till Havok would make sense as a leader of a group like this.

Now Multiple Man was likely around mid-20's in Last Stand (2006). If they decided to use him in the mid-80's his age would likely be too young, but they could change it up slightly and try to make him of a similar age to say Last Stand's Cyclops, which would make him around 18-20 in the mid-80's. It's hard to believe that an 18 year old kid would be the leader (we're not talking field leader like Scott) of the X-Factor Investigations. And it's even more difficult to believe that an almost 40 year old Havok would play second fiddle to some 18 year old kid.

Now, as others have indicated, IF they go with it being an 80's period piece series, with Havok as the leader, that could very easily work.

But my argument is that most of the rumors indicate that Multiple Man would be the leader. SO it's hard for me to see some 18 year old kid as the leader, and a 40 year old seasoned Havok playing back-up. That's why I lean towards this one ending up being in the "present".

If it is the present, with Multiple Man as the leader (which matches rumor and canon) then it's highly unlikely Havok and Polaris make the team.

Can you at least agree to that point? Do you agree that IF they make this tv series in the present (say 2015) that Lucas Till's Havok (who would be around 70 years old) would likely NOT be on the team?????

 

[GuestStar2004]

Can you at least agree to that point? Do you agree that IF they make this tv series in the present (say 2015) that Lucas Till's Havok (who would be around 70 years old) would likely NOT be on the team?????

you keep pointing out how old havok would be in the present but that wouldn't be the case if it was the past, does he have to be the leader? from the sounds of it havok isn't the fixed leader for X-Factor and not alot of this series has followed the comics all that well anyway

i think what it is you are looking at it the same way they are doing X-Men, young recruits then future versions of them in 2023, but there is absolutely nothing that says X-Factor investigations or whatever has to done in the same way or be acknowledged in the future to show what has become of them, the point of a tv series is to tell the story of these characters for however many seasons

 

[pavlov]

i think the franchise should stick in the past for the meantime.

 

[Super Jim]

you keep pointing out how old havok would be in the present but that wouldn't be the case if it was the past, does he have to be the leader? from the sounds of it havok isn't the fixed leader for X-Factor and not alot of this series has followed the comics all that well anyway

i think what it is you are looking at it the same way they are doing X-Men, young recruits then future versions of them in 2023, but there is absolutely nothing that says X-Factor investigations or whatever has to done in the same way or be acknowledged in the future to show what has become of them, the point of a tv series is to tell the story of these characters for however many seasons

You skirted my "backed you into a corner" question.

I simply asked you "IF it was set in the present" would you agre that a 70 year old Havok ould likely not be in it.

Yes, I agree with you, IF they set it in the past they could make Havok the leader, but I also argued how the rumor is that it will be a Multiple Man led group.

IMO, those two things are conflicting. Does Havok have to be the leader of X-Factor? No, though pr canon that was the case, for at least one point in the series, but my main point is simple...

IF it's in the past then Multiple Man islikely too young to lead and Lucas Till's Havok is too much of a veteran to take second fiddle to some teenaged Madrox. If it's in the present then Havok is too old to be on the team.

That's really my whole point. It's not that I want strictly and solely what was in the comics (though that would be nice for a change), but moreso that the rumors say Madrox, and I can't see Madrox as a leader in the past. So if itis Madrox, it's likely set in the present (which is much easier as far as production), which means likely no Havok.