The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

Discussion in 'Iron Man 3' started by Thread Manager, May 6, 2013.

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  1. spider-neil

    spider-neil spins a web any size!

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    The Iron Man film makers don't get a pass for screwing up a b-lister villain because Iron Man himself was a b-lister before he was handled with care and maturity.

    Someone said (can't remember who) 'there are no bad characters, just bad writers. If Marvel were worried about the asian stereotypes then they should have dropped the asian stereotypes.

    I think what the film makers did with Manadrin was inexcuseable, and then attempting to redeem the situation with the secondary villain (because that what he was) TELLING me (literally ha ha!) he is the main villain. Oh DEAR.
    Staggering, disrespectful and worst of all, LAZY.
     
    #26
  2. S. Grundy

    S. Grundy Well-Known Member

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    But they did drop the Asian stereotypes. The Mandarin is still the Mandarin in the comic, if they want to do something different with the movies, I say let them. It's their character to do with how ever they see fit.
     
    #27
  3. spider-neil

    spider-neil spins a web any size!

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    True, but they have now lost the potential to use the character again because if they use Mandarin again in a future movie in the context he was presented in this movie then I think I would skip that movie.
     
    #28
  4. JJJ's Ulcer

    JJJ's Ulcer Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. And did I miss a part in the movie where it showed the executed Roxxon worker to also be an actor?

    I know they were trying to be clever, but it really was a misfire and that's what makes it so frustrating. They had all the elements in place for something awesome. All they had to do was follow through with the Mandarin as we thought he'd be during the first half. Instead they made him into a debauched, drunken buffoon who made jokes about stinking up bathrooms and yelled at soccer games. If they never introduced the Mandarin and just played it as Tony VS Killian for the first half of the movie I wouldn't have cared as much, but why give us such an awesome presence only to take it away? It's like Thundercrack said, if Joker was revealed to be an internet meme or if Bane was some clueless bodybuilder from Venice Beach. Would it have been a huge twist? Yeah. But that doesn't make it good.

    And people are still confusing love of Mandarin from the trailers with love of Mandarin in comics. I think many more people were let down because the badass Mandarin from those great trailers basically didn't exist, not because he wasn't the walking, talking Fu Manchu stereotype from the comics.
     
    #29
  5. spider-neil

    spider-neil spins a web any size!

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    I didn't see a single trailer, I was bitterly disappoint that the Mandarin presented in act 1 wasn't the Mandarin in act 3.
     
    #30
  6. Norek

    Norek Yvonne Strahotski <3

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    And I would say, with the first half of IM3 too.
     
    #31
  7. S. Grundy

    S. Grundy Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes one and done is good enough. The Marvel universe is big and rich enough that they can do that.
     
    #32
    Last edited: May 7, 2013
  8. JJJ's Ulcer

    JJJ's Ulcer Well-Known Member

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    In modern superhero movies, there are very few films in which the villains return. I can think of Magneto and his Brotherhood, Loki and Scarecrow.
     
    #33
  9. Casius--J

    Casius--J Web Master

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    Very disappointed with the treatment of the Mandarin in this film. When I saw the trailers and Kingsleys portrayal of him I thought wow they've gone down the right route and he's going to be awesome. Then the first half or so of the movie he had such a great presence I couldnt wait for them to face off and then that bloomin twist comes along.....sigh

    I would have been fine with it if they just went ahead and NOT called him the Mandarin but rather just some terrorist leader but now with this it looks like we're never going to get a real Mandarin. Although I do get some of the comments you guys have made of what made Killian the real Mandarin but I would have preferred the Mandarin we got in the trailers.
     
    #34
  10. spider-neil

    spider-neil spins a web any size!

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    Do you guys think that is a good thing (to have one and done villians)? We're not talking Spider-Man or Batman's rogues to choose from where you have a myriad of villains all as diverse and different as each other, we're talking about Iron Man's rogues and if I really rake my brain I can think of 5, 2 of whom have been used already (Whiplash and Manadrin).
     
    #35
  11. jmc

    jmc away for a while

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    Perhaps it's time Marvel started inventing some rogues for Iron Man then.
     
    #36
  12. Smashlilman

    Smashlilman Ouch!!!!

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    I'm not saying don't do the characters or turn white characters black. That's what other people where saying. What I'm saying is that those characters can be done tastefully and still be true to there original concepts with out diving into or relying on stereotypes.


    For instance if you wanted to do the Wakandans on film you should turn away from the stereotypical tribal depiction of them. You should go out as a film maker observe actually tribal cultures instead of relying on what the preconceived perception of what tribal Africans are. When forming the idea of who the Wakandans are.

    Even the some like the Mandarin could have been done properly with out going into the preset Fu-manchu stereo type. Like i said before they could have gone the route of making the Premandarin character obsessed with the Three kingdoms period. The movie could have explored the rich Chinese history though the Premandarin character. He could even claim ancestry to any of the Six Dynasties that ruled during that period.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Kingdoms

    Later in the movie the premandarin character could have come into contact with the alien objects that he eventually wears as rings. Because of the power he acquires, He becomes power mad and delusional.

    See Chronicale clip below for an exampled of this.
    [YT]4oXDZMsjvUM[/YT]

    In his Delusional state he falls back on his Six Dynasties fascination and starts to dress that way.

    He just became a power mad nut that dresses like he's in 220&#8211;280 AD China during the Three kingdoms period instead of a western Fu-manchu stereotype.
     
    #37
    Last edited: May 7, 2013
  13. Project862006

    Project862006 Well-Known Member

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    yet it was ok to make a stereotypical middle eastern stereotype

    shane black makes no sense
     
    #38
  14. samsnee

    samsnee Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this. They can't sell new toys if they keep using the same villains over and over. Only Loki and Magneto come to mind as villains that have had significant roles in the sequels. (That was not Dr Doom but an impostor).

    Let's say they Mandarin was Mandarin all along. I don't see how they could have used him for future unless they went with the "teamup with the hero" route which has been done already.
     
    #39
  15. spider-neil

    spider-neil spins a web any size!

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    You could have had the supervillain team up.
    Loki - Thor
    Red Skull - Cap
    Mandarin Iron Monger Whiplash - Iron Man
     
    #40
  16. lukebrodyg

    lukebrodyg Well-Known Member

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    I'm divided.

    I'll admit I had to do my research on Mandarin before seeing this film. He seemed interesting to me and I was intrigued at seeing BK's portrayal and Shane's spin. When I saw the movie I wasn't upset but I was let down because I thought Sir Ben was doing a great job (and he still did with the Trevor character).

    I'm divided I guess in that knowing what I know about the comic Mandarin and how it could have been and knowing what they did is that it worked in the film but it was a waste of potential at the same time.

    (Ultimately I was more upset that we didn't get a definitive "Iron Man moment" like so many that were in IM and IM2)
     
    #41
  17. Mjölnir

    Mjölnir Guest

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    I'd say that being a Muslim is pretty front and center of the aspects of making the Middle Eastern stereotype. He basically just had the beard.
     
    #42
    Last edited: May 7, 2013
  18. Smashlilman

    Smashlilman Ouch!!!!

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    Corrected :oldrazz:

    [​IMG]
     
    #43
  19. spider-neil

    spider-neil spins a web any size!

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    Tony - 'Afengerss...Ashemble...'
     
    #44
  20. C. Lee

    C. Lee I'm not old...I'm ancient

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    I still have no problem with the movie. The fact that the suspected terrorist was actually a front for the real bad guy not only doesn't bother me, but I think it's a nice twist.
     
    #45
  21. TheMark

    TheMark Member

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    As much as I love all the Marvel films, this is the first one that actually has something important to say.
     
    #46
  22. Adamantium Man

    Adamantium Man Just Another Metal Person

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    Seen it four times, and I still love, love, love the twist. It's daring, innovative, unexpected, and best of all, it does create a whole new enemy for IM, namely Killian (who I'm not convinced is dead). They took a stereotype and unmasked him to replace him with a nearly unkillable, firebreathing, smokin'-hot badass. What's not to like?

    Seriously, Iron Monger was adapted. Whiplash was an amalgamation of two characters. The Mandarin we got was an amalgamation of the Mandarin and Mallen (with shades of Fin Fang Foom). If the first two were okay, where the hell is the problem now?
     
    #47
  23. spider-neil

    spider-neil spins a web any size!

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    So were you invested in the personality of Mandarin as presented in act 1 or didn't you care?
     
    #48
  24. C. Lee

    C. Lee I'm not old...I'm ancient

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    In the first act...Ben Kingsley (the Mandarin) was presented as a ruthless, narcissistic, uncaring, full of himself, murderous terrorist. You only see him in television spots he has shot and presents to the world. At that point, there is no other way to take him. There is no contradictory info on his character given or even hinted at. So....you either take his character as that or you don't do it for reasons that you would have to explain, because all that is shown and spoke of him is that of being a murderous terrorist.

    I'm not sure if that is what you mean by "invested" in the personality, but that is my take on the subject.
     
    #49
  25. Grommers

    Grommers Well-Known Member

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    I agree with C.Lee with a difference. I am upset that Ben Kingsley didn't get to be his take on the mandarin from the first act. Only because it looked like it was going to be an epic performance. It didn't hurt the movie I felt, as the movie was still good with him being Trevor. the movie was still great, and the twist was still a good one, it's just kingsley initial performance made me wanting more from it. I would equate my look on it as Kobe or Lebron, Ovechkin or Crosby, Messi or Ronaldo. Both are exceptionally good stories (BK as Mandarin or as the fall guy), and two different stories possible, but both are exceptional.


    I think that's the easiest metaphor I could use.

    The only other impact I didn't like was..I didn't feel that the "mandarin" had a big enough impact on Tony Stark, for his arch nemesis it felt flat, but not because of the twist.
     
    #50
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