The McCain Thread

[StorminNorman]

Karl Rove went from being a brilliant strategist to a miserable failure in a two-year time period. We saw how irrelevant Rove was during the 2006 elections, and how Americans are not buying into the Christofascist, faux-conservatism he perpetuated years ago. Making Rove one of McCain's strategist would be a disaster in that respect. It would also hurt McCain's image in the eyes of the independent voters, who see Rove as a symbol of the Bush administration. For a candidate who already gets enough criticism for associating with Bush, making Rove your campaign strategist would be an absolute disaster.

Rove's 2006 and Special Election strategies consisted of phone banks and door to door victory squads - dinosaurs in political strategy.

Rove's success come from being hitched on a successful horse - not the other way around as many would assume. Rove is not the GOP's elite strategist, he was the GOP's most recognizable one. They see success for the Republican Party and credit the figurehead rather than the true brain trust.

 

[Matt]

Karl Rove went from being a brilliant strategist to a miserable failure in a two-year time period. We saw how irrelevant Rove was during the 2006 elections, and how Americans are not buying into the Christofascist, faux-conservatism he perpetuated years ago. Making Rove one of McCain's strategist would be a disaster in that respect. It would also hurt McCain's image in the eyes of the independent voters, who see Rove as a symbol of the Bush administration. For a candidate who already gets enough criticism for associating with Bush, making Rove your campaign strategist would be an absolute disaster.

That wasn't so much Rove's fault as it was the fault of massive corruption, scandal, and bad policy overtaking the GOP. They got arrogant and took the hit for it.

 

[Kelly]

I don't think Karl Rove is the answer at this point, but McCain needs to do something quick.

As far as the cameras following Obama. No, they would not have followed him into the hospital. If the people in charge said no to cameras, I can assure you there would be no cameras.

What I'm not understanding in this situation is, SO WHAT? Why couldn't Obama walk into that hospital (without cameras) visit those soldiers, sit down with them for a moment, talk with them, and walk out. (and simply say to the cameras, I had a really good visit with them) and leave it at that. McCain's camp could not have gotten anything from that. Obama quietly visited another military hospital not long ago, McCain didn't say anything about that. That was just a VERY STUPID decision by Obama, EXTREMELY STUPID.

BTW, McCain needs to now shut the hell up about it. It's done, people have made their mind up on the situation, and he needs to shut up.

 

[The Overlord]

1) There are ways to keep cameras out of buildings. Shutting the door for one..

The fact the media would report it at all would make conservatives pissed off, its a no win sit for Obama.

2) As if his entire European tour wasn't? Everything Obama does is political, same with McCain. Obama knew he would've recieved a less than stellar greeting from the troops so he opted out. I'm not going to cast judgement on that one way or the other, but if Lazur is trying to swift boat him, than you are trying to build up some false, saintly image of him as if he did not visit because he was concerned of their welfare and what the commotion of a visit from him would do to them...

So what? I would rather have someone who is actually like Obama, then some wimp like Kerry, who let himself hget swift boated and lost a campaign he should of won because of his ineffectiveness. Obama has to be somewhat political agressive, though not mean spirited, if he wants to beat the GOP attack machine. If he didn't do things like this trip, the GOP would treat him like another wimp they can walk all over.

Never the less, in this particular case, he is right.

About Rove? Considering what failure Rove was in 2006 eelction, I highly disagree, people aren't stupid enough to fall for this family values BS this time.

 

[Superman]

(not to mention those people Obama was playing basketball with, where servicemen)

I just caught that today.

This moron put a clip of Obama PLAYING BASKETBALL WITH THE TROOPS IN A GYM while saying that Obama didn't have time to see the troops because he went to the gym.

 

[Kelly]

If I'm not mistaken the basketball game was at a different time, a day or so earlier.

 

[rdh007]

They see success for the Republican Party and credit the figurehead rather than the true brain trust.

Which is?

 

[Superman]

If I'm not mistaken the basketball game was at a different time, a day or so earlier.

That may be true but come on.

Out of all the video's out there that they could use of Obama they decide to use the one clip of him playing basketball with the troops in a gym to make the point that he didn't have time to be with the troops because he went to the gym.

It's just stupid IMO.

 

[jaguarr]

That may be true but come on.

Out of all the video's out there that they could use of Obama they decide to use the one clip of him playing basketball with the troops in a gym to make the point that he didn't have time to be with the troops because he went to the gym.

It's just stupid IMO.

It's grasping at straws and makes McCain seem petty and ridiculous, to me anyway.

jag

 

[Kelly]

I don't disagree at all with you, but it still doesn't IMO, take away from the situation. Obama really, really should have visited those troops. Walked out, told the cameras at that point "we had a good visit" and moved on. I could really care less what he did instead of going to see the troops, but some will. Nor do I think him choosing not to go is going to bring down his campaign. To me, its was just a no-brainer.

So, are the ads about it stupid yes, just as stupid as him not going ahead and going.

 

[Marx]

I don't disagree at all with you, but it still doesn't IMO, take away from the situation. Obama really, really should have visited those troops. Walked out, told the cameras at that point "we had a good visit" and moved on. I could really care less what he did instead of going to see the troops, but some will. Nor do I think him choosing not to go is going to bring down his campaign. To me, its was just a no-brainer.

So, are the ads about it stupid yes, just as stupid as him not going ahead and going.

But Obama once again found himself in a catch22. If he went to visit the troops, it would be politicized by McCain. If he cancelled the plans to visit the troops, it would be politicized by McCain. Either way, it's not a good situation.

 

[Kelly]

See I don't think it would have been a big deal if he had gone, and IMO, if its a Catch 22then you do what your heart tells you to do.

 

[Marx]

See I don't think it would have been a big deal if he had gone, and IMO, if its a Catch 22then you do what your heart tells you to do.

I agree. But I think McCain and company would have politicized the heck out of it. Much the way they're doing now anyway with him deciding not to go.

 

[Marx]

McCain says he could support a 16-month Iraq timetable
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/28/mccain.larryking/index.html

 

[Kelly]

I agree. But I think McCain and company would have politicized the heck out of it. Much the way they're doing now anyway with him deciding not to go.

The thing is, he (obama) has aready visited military hospitals, while on the campaign trail, and the McCain camp said nothing. IF, and this is a big IF, Obama had simply visited the soldiers, and did it quietly (as he did the other times), and spoke nothing about it, what could they have said? He certainly would not be using it as a campaign photo op, nor a campaign soundbite.

 

[Marx]

The thing is, he (obama) has aready visited military hospitals, while on the campaign trail, and the McCain camp said nothing. IF, and this is a big IF, Obama had simply visited the soldiers, and did it quietly (as he did the other times), and spoke nothing about it, what could they have said? He certainly would not be using it as a campaign photo op, nor a campaign soundbite.

You bring up a great point Kel. The key word though, being IF.

 

[Kelly]

McCain says he could support a 16-month Iraq timetable
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/28/mccain.larryking/index.html

Checks off #3 on my list of McCain "must do's".

1. Shut up with the slams on everything Obama does.
2. Keep pushing for off-shore drilling/gas tax holiday/alternatives.
3. Move more towards a pull out with military "ok", and change his verbage on Iraq.
4. DO NOT choose Mitt Romney as a running mate.
5. Run for only one term.

 

[Marx]

Checks off #3 on my list of McCain "must do's".

1. Shut up with the slams on everything Obama does.
2. Keep pushing for off-shore drilling/gas tax holiday/alternatives.
3. Move more towards a pull out with military "ok", and change his verbage on Iraq.
4. DO NOT choose Mitt Romney as a running mate.
5. Run for only one term.

Yeah, I'd say that's a pretty accurate list!

 

[Kelly]

You bring up a great point Kel. The key word though, being IF.

Well, had he gone to visit them, and then started using story, after story, after story in campaign speeches, then McCain would have something to slam him about. He could have very easily visited "quietly" and left it at that. He would have won on both notes. Visited, and didn't use it as a campaign photo op or soundbite. Unfortunately, he chose wrong.

 

[Addendum]

He chose to follow the regulations that the Pentagon has in place regarding candidates and military bases, as did General Clark during his campaign in 2004

 

[Marx]

He chose to follow the regulations that the Pentagon has in place regarding candidates and military bases, as did General Clark during his campaign in 2004

McCain and company are choosing to ignore that little factoid.

 

[Kelly]

He chose to follow the regulations that the Pentagon has in place regarding candidates and military bases, as did General Clark during his campaign in 2004

The rules are no cameras, NOT, no visits.

The rule is to prohibit bringing campaign staff along when making a visit, as in photogs, video etc. He could have gone in by himself to make the visit, and I'm sure those men and women would have appreciated it very much.

 

[Addendum]

He visited troops already. You know, there's video where you can see him shooting hoops with some soldiers in a gym. McCain used the same footage to say that Obama doesn't...visit the troops...

Or do those troops not count because of where they weren't stationed

 

[Kelly]

He visited troops already. You know, there's video where you can see him shooting hoops with some soldiers in a gym. McCain used the same footage to say that Obama doesn't...visit the troops...

Or do those troops not count because of where they weren't stationed

Yes it is a stupid ad because that was Obama shooting hoops with soldiers in Iraq days before.

What????? So??????

He had planned to visit this hospital, the hospital was ready for him to visit.

So, since he already got his video and pics with some soldiers, there was no need to visit the wounded soldiers in Germany?

 

[Marx]

He visited troops already. You know, there's video where you can see him shooting hoops with some soldiers in a gym. McCain used the same footage to say that Obama doesn't...visit the troops...

Or do those troops not count because of where they weren't stationed

I will never claim to understand John McCain's logic.