The Natalie Portman/Jane Foster Thread

[American Maid]

^True!

 

[elizah72]

This is mainly for American Maid but look if you must... (anybody else may not know what the heck I'm talking about lol)

Spoiler

okay so, this is totally coming from left field but I am liking the idea we were discussing in the Alice Krige thread of them linking the Tesseract/Beyonder figure to Jane and that being what possesses her in Thor 2. That makes A LOT of sense if the possession thing is true since that could be what changes Algrim to Kurse. Why add another element like a possession story if it's not linked to that? it would be quite extraneous. And then you said that the Beyonder tends to just go off and wander/explore and try things so wouldn't necessarily have to be defeated right at the end of Thor 2. Then I thought about that stuff Joss said about the next Avengers digging deeper...

"The creation of the team is not the happy ending," said Whedon, referencing the first movie. "It is the beginning of something that is complex and difficult, and now I get to dig a little deeper. And maybe, while I'm digging, just twist that knife. And that's exciting for me."

and then i thought... wow, i wonder if Jane possessed by the Tesseract/Beyonder winds up being the other big bad with Thanos in Avengers 2? And maybe she's what Thanos winds up in love with/obsessed with in this version.

 

[elizah72]

To continue on what I said above to American Maid:

Spoiler

And i just want to add to that plot bunny that I believe that Shield now has the spear that was linked to and closed the Tesseract since it did not seem to go with Thor and Loki. SO, if somehow the "personality" that was in the Tesseract/Cosmic Cube was transferred to the blue gem in the spear in the process of closing the hole, or perhaps it's still in the cube but able to travel to the spear/gem somehow, and then Jane is messing with the gem on the spear on behalf of Shield, THEN, that might be one way she gets possessed... possibly.

 

[American Maid]

This is mainly for American Maid but look if you must... (anybody else may not know what the heck I'm talking about lol)

Spoiler

okay so, this is totally coming from left field but I am liking the idea we were discussing in the Alice Krige thread of them linking the Tesseract/Beyonder figure to Jane and that being what possesses her in Thor 2. That makes A LOT of sense if the possession thing is true since that could be what changes Algrim to Kurse. Why add another element like a possession story if it's not linked to that? it would be quite extraneous. And then you said that the Beyonder tends to just go off and wander/explore and try things so wouldn't necessarily have to be defeated right at the end of Thor 2. Then I thought about that stuff Joss said about the next Avengers digging deeper...



and then i thought... wow, i wonder if Jane possessed by the Tesseract/Beyonder winds up being the other big bad with Thanos in Avengers 2? And maybe she's what Thanos winds up in love with/obsessed with in this version.

To continue on what I said above to American Maid:

Spoiler

And i just want to add to that plot bunny that I believe that Shield now has the spear that was linked to and closed the Tesseract since it did not seem to go with Thor and Loki. SO, if somehow the "personality" that was in the Tesseract/Cosmic Cube was transferred to the blue gem in the spear in the process of closing the hole, or perhaps it's still in the cube but able to travel to the spear/gem somehow, and then Jane is messing with the gem on the spear on behalf of Shield, THEN, that might be one way she gets possessed... possibly.

I'll try to say as much as I can outside of spoiler buttons, without actually spoiling anything, so it's not a totally obtuse thread.

First comment: LOL Poor Jane!!
For anyone following along who is familiar with the various fates Jane has met over the years, the supposition behind the button is kind of in a similar spirit (ie, something magical conveys her out of Thor's life), though quite different from those previous fates in the details. It's an extension of a spoiler that stuntman Andrew Lawden gave in a radio interview, revealed over in the spoilers thread.

And, since Jane keeps meeting fates like this, and since various people from Marvel have talked about (comics) Jane as being an important part of (comics) Thor's time on Earth, sometimes suggesting that it's an area of long-standing regret for him, I have to concede that it would be not be completely in conflict with canon to do something like this.

As I've said before, I want Jane to be successful and I want her to be happy. Certainly I'd like her to wind up with Thor. (As Izzy, the cafe owner in Thor1, said in a deleted scene, "She could do worse." ) But if that's not to be, I accept that. If forced to choose, I would like her to make a meaningful contribution somewhere in the grand MCU story. It doesn't even have to be part of the Thor story arc. The deal breaker for me (and I'll try not to Hulk out about it, er, this time ) is that the character be treated with dignity.

I'm concerned that the proposal seems veering toward undignified, but depending on a bunch of in-between details, maybe they could pull it off. At least it would still be a contribution to the MCU story.

Currently, I'd say I'm about 75% certain that Jane stays in the story, and I continue to think that if she stays in the story, there's a 90% chance she'll stay Thor's love interest. This proposal is an example of her staying in the story but not as the love interest. Another would be my understanding of how she shows up in JMS' run--physician to various non-Thor superheroes. I think I'll save the specific reasons why I think Jane remaining Thor's love interest is the most likely outcome for another post, since this one looks like it's going to be pretty long as it is.

I will say that I think Natalie Portman has the acting chops to pull off any or all of this.

Some comments on the specifics in the propoosal I'll have to hide behind a spoiler button.

Spoiler

I do agree that it's a little odd that they added this possession thing on top of everything else that is going on. So it would be neat and tidy to tie it to the bigger story. But I had always figured that Jane would be freed from the malevolent spirit at some point during the course of the film. If the malevolent spirit turns out to be the thing that changes Algrim to Kurse, that would be an obvious moment. If it's, for example, Malekith, then the moment they reach Svartalfheim would be another obvious moment.

The Beyonder doesn't need to grab a mortal. It assembled a humanoid form on its own. So I don't think it would need to keep Jane's body long term. The same can be said about Mistress Death. (Thanos' love-obsession for any lurker who doesn't already know). I think you are suggesting Thanos gets obsessed with someone other than Mistress Death, but from my understanding of Thanos, that's actually a big stretch for his character. So that doesn't seem as likely to me.

The other thing that's odd about this possession element is that whatever takes over Jane has to be powerful enough to do it, but not so powerful that it can get to Svartalfheim on its own. It has to be *able* to take over Jane and also *need* to take over Jane. So that tends to rule out really powerful creatures like the Beyonder and Mistress Death. (When I proposed Alice Krige as the Beyonder, I was supposing she would show up during the Thor/Algrim battle, much like I gather the Beyonder did in the book.)

As for Whedon's comment about twisting the knife, he may not know which knives yet he's going to use (but then again, major plot elements may already be decided). Besides, this knife is going to twist in Thor's gut in *this* film. He already has sincere feelings for Jane, and she's already suffering.

Regarding the scepter, there was a discussion in the spoilers thread a while back, perhaps before you were following the forum, where the consensus was that Whedon was characterizing the gem in the scepter as being simply a remote device for the cube, not an object of power unto itself. (They were wondering if it was actually one of the gems that Thanos has to collect to complete his Infinity Gauntlet). So that makes it seem unlikely that it would bring Jane (and not others) into contact with the sentience. If it was just a residual bit of the cube, then I would think it would want to get to Asgard, where the rest of the cube is. So maybe possessing Jane as far as there, but not wanting to go on the rest of the journey. (But if so, why not Selvig?) Also, come to think of it, Andrew Lawden had said that the malevolent spirit was associated with the Dark Elves. So that also makes the Tesseract a less likely candidate for possession.

The part that affects The Avengers 2 is the biggest stretch in my opinion.

A couple of thoughts about the spoiler directly.

Spoiler

I had earlier wondered how they could drag Jane along on a journey while she is possessed. I was imagining her with her eyes rolled back and her convulsing, or at least kicking and screaming. But it seems likely that the malevolent spirit *wants* to go on the journey. So maybe it's a case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", at least until they all get to Svartalfheim. Maybe the malevolent spirit has military experience, so that would explain why "Jane" would go with them to the Dark World in Asgard and help train up an army.

It could be that this possession wasn't all that pre-meditated. Maybe a dark elf (or one of the other attackers) with magical abilities gets slain, and then its spirit grabs the first being it can, who happens to be Jane. Malevolent spirit then wants to get to Svartalfheim where it can arrange for a more permanent living arrangement. Or at least that's what it tells Thor.

Finally, anyone who doesn't like the character of Jane ought to welcome this development. It means that for whatever fraction of the movie Jane is possessed, Natalie Portman will not be portraying Jane. She'll be portraying the malevolent spirit. So less Jane.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

Whoa...what the heck have I missed?? If these rumors are true...this is not good...

 

[American Maid]

Whoa...what the heck have I missed??
If these rumors are true...this is not good...

I should make a distinction clearer.

There were some rumors (discussed over in the spoilers thread), and then elizah72 proposed a plot scenario that starts with the premise of the rumors and adds new material. So what elizah72 has behind her spoiler buttons is *her* thinking about what could happen (specifically, how *she* thinks Jane could exit Thor's life). I commented that what she proposed is rather similar to any of a number of events that have happened in the books. And there have been any of a number of people on this forum proposing various ways Jane and Thor could part company these past few months. So I thought that characterizing this scenario that elizah72 invented that way would not spoil anything, since I didn't talk about any particulars outside of the spoiler buttons. But again, her plot scenario is not the actual rumor. It's her scenario.

(And, as I said, I think Jane stays in the story. As Thor's love interest.)

If we have spoiled the actual plot element for you (you'd be able to tell what it is looking at what's behind the buttons) and you did not want to have it spoiled, then I offer my whole-hearted apology. And I will edit all my posts to remove material that you think I shouldn't have put in this thread (and ask elizah72 if she would consider doing the same). Please just let me know, either here or via PM. (PM if you want to talk about specific things.)

 

[elizah72]

I dont really see it as undigified at all, I think it would be freakin' cool! lol... I'm kind of excited by the idea now. Keep in mind, they need to have drama, conflict and "meat" as actors call it, to work with and keep things interesting, and keep people entertained. Otherwise the relationship and the movie gets boring fast. This scenario would certainly accomplish making the Jane-Thor story much more interesting and exciting.

and...

Spoiler

it doesnt necessarily mean she'll end up dead at the end of Thor 2 or Avengers 2. we could easily end up with the same ending that you mentioned from the comics when Jane became a goddess and had to face a challenge and then decided it wasnt for her. Imagine how horrified Jane would be after all of this resolves, especially if she's killed anyone (especially one of her friends) while "under the influence". This would give her a very valid believable reason for saying no to being Thor's lady, and continuing a normal life on Earth.

The Thanos love interest thing is very left field, I admit, but again I am trying to fill in holes and not add in things that would be extraneous here, so that's why I wondered about it. They did already say "to court death" and Thanos smiling which would seem to point towards Lady Death being involved, but I figured that also could simply point to Thanos liking to kills stuff. And again, they may be reinventing some things and relationships and making it differnt from the comics. But this part of the idea may not be on the nose, I admit that.

As far as the possession itself, the stuntman may not know or be confusing about when she is possessed, again if that is true. Or if not, it could be it's just lurking and watching in the back of her mind, and not making itself known until much later in the film. It is mentioned that both Kosmos and the Beyonder are curious, and so may sit back and just watch things for a while.

I missed the scepter discussion before, but I dont think that rules out the entity within the cube being able to travel through it to a person. It seems like if they were not intending to use the scepter again, then it should not have been so conspicuously missing at the end of Avengers when Loki and Thor returned to Asgard.

as far as this spirit/power being assoicated with the dark elves, again he may be confusing some issues depending on what he's read or seen.

I think I take it as Joss will be twisting a knife in everyone's guts in Avengers 2, as Joss has been known to do. Thor included.

 

[elizah72]

I should make a distinction clearer.

There were some rumors (discussed over in the spoilers thread), and then elizah72 proposed a plot scenario that starts with the premise of the rumors and adds new material. So what elizah72 has behind her spoiler buttons is *her* thinking about what could happen (specifically, how *she* thinks Jane could exit Thor's life). I commented that what she proposed is rather similar to any of a number of events that have happened in the books. And there have been any of a number of people on this forum proposing various ways Jane and Thor could part company these past few months. So I thought that characterizing this scenario that elizah72 invented that way would not spoil anything, since I didn't talk about any particulars outside of the spoiler buttons. But again, her plot scenario is not the actual rumor. It's her scenario.

(And, as I said, I think Jane stays in the story. As Thor's love interest.)

If we have spoiled the actual plot element for you (you'd be able to tell what it is looking at what's behind the buttons) and you did not want to have it spoiled, then I offer my whole-hearted apology. And I will edit all my posts to remove material that you think I shouldn't have put in this thread (and ask elizah72 if she would consider doing the same). Please just let me know, either here or via PM. (PM if you want to talk about specific things.)

Yes what we are discussing is all my thinking based on a few spoilers and some speculation with AM. I think however that because it's all behind spoiler buttons, and this IS a Thor The Dark world forum that really... if you looked behind the spoiler buttons and read and got spoiled then it's your own fault if you got spoiled (Sorry! but otherwise where do people go to talk about spoilers if they can't come here?!?!?)

 

[American Maid]

Yes what we are discussing is all my thinking based on a few spoilers and some speculation with AM. I think however that because it's all behind spoiler buttons, and this IS a Thor The Dark world forum that really... if you looked behind the spoiler buttons and read and got spoiled then it's your own fault if you got spoiled (Sorry! but otherwise where do people go to talk about spoilers if they can't come here?!?!?)

My primary concern was that the comments I made outside the spoiler buttons gave away (or appeared to) more than I had intended.

I'm also a little concerned that even having the spoiler buttons here is against the spirit of the forum of having spoilers only in the spoiler thread.

As for what this forum is for, some people might want to speculate based only on what has been shown in movies so far, or ask questions like, "In the books, what happened when. . . ."

 

[elizah72]

My primary concern was that the comments I made outside the spoiler buttons gave away (or appeared to) more than I had intended.

I'm also a little concerned that even having the spoiler buttons here is against the spirit of the forum of having spoilers only in the spoiler thread.

As for what this forum is for, some people might want to speculate based only on what has been shown in movies so far, or ask questions like, "In the books, what happened when. . . ."

well hopefully a mod can come in and clarify that sometime, because to me the other Thor and Thor World forums are for the books and Thor 1 and what's already happened etc, and this forum is for what will/may happen in Thor 2. My impression with the spoiler thread at the top was more for people to post misc. news and spoilery pics and talk about them freely without the spoiler buttons at all. I think these discussions would quickly get too confusing and mixed up with all the other stuff in that thread. Whereas, instead I have been trying to use the spoiler buttons in the other threads when I think appropriate just as a courtesy to give people a chance to not look at it, but again, if they click the spoiler button and read it that's not my fault!

 

[American Maid]

I think these discussions would quickly get too confusing and mixed up with all the other stuff in that thread.

Yes, I share that concern.

 

[herolee10]

I figure I'd post some gifs of her from the previous film. Granted, while I'm well aware and understand/agree with some of the criticism towards Jane's character, I did like the chemistry between the two.

 

[SimiOfDoom]

I figure I'd post some gifs of her from the previous film. Granted, while I'm well aware and understand/agree with some of the criticism towards Jane's character, I did like the chemistry between the two.

I´m with you there.

It´s sad that so many criticize their relationship so hard.
While not creating a full blown romance, I think almost everybody who´s been in love should know, that two days of knowing someone are more than enough to have a crush on them.

 

[American Maid]

I figure I'd post some gifs of her from the previous film. Granted, while I'm well aware and understand/agree with some of the criticism towards Jane's character, I did like the chemistry between the two.
<deleted>

I´m with you there.

It´s sad that so many criticize their relationship so hard.
While not creating a full blown romance, I think almost everybody who´s been in love should know, that two days of knowing someone are more than enough to have a crush on them.

Thanks for the gifs, Herolee10!

I'm sure it will be no surprise to read that I agree with you guys LOL!

Hopefully they fix the weak parts of Jane's character, or at least reduce them. (Maybe improving those parts could even be a little character arc for Jane.)

As I've mentioned in the other threads, given the plot point rumors we've received, I'm having a hard time seeing how they will make progress on the know/like/love conversation that Feige mentioned in his Collider interview. But it will be interesting to see what they do.

The other note that I think will be tricky for the filmmakers to get right is this: the events of this movie are at least over a year after Thor1, perhaps 2-2.25 years. So Thor and Jane probably need a little bit more than a crush to sustain their interest in each other long enough to want to bother finding each other in Thor2. But as SimiOfDoom says, it's not a full-blown romance, either.

And there are very few details available at present. But I guess they can't let us know everything in advance!

 

[Smashlilman]

This is mainly for American Maid but look if you must... (anybody else may not know what the heck I'm talking about lol)

Spoiler

okay so, this is totally coming from left field but I am liking the idea we were discussing in the Alice Krige thread of them linking the Tesseract/Beyonder figure to Jane and that being what possesses her in Thor 2. That makes A LOT of sense if the possession thing is true since that could be what changes Algrim to Kurse. Why add another element like a possession story if it's not linked to that? it would be quite extraneous. And then you said that the Beyonder tends to just go off and wander/explore and try things so wouldn't necessarily have to be defeated right at the end of Thor 2. Then I thought about that stuff Joss said about the next Avengers digging deeper...



and then i thought... wow, i wonder if Jane possessed by the Tesseract/Beyonder winds up being the other big bad with Thanos in Avengers 2? And maybe she's what Thanos winds up in love with/obsessed with in this version.

OH yea post-reconned Beyonder is a Cosmic Cube. Potentially the MCU Cosmic Cube could gain consciousness and become the Beyonder! He can then turn Algrim the strong into Kurse.

Finally the Shaper and Kubik explained the origin of the Beyonder's and the Molecule Man's power. There is another dimension, where a race of incredibly powerful beings known as the Beyonders (plural) live and watch our universe. In many ways their motives are like a mix of the Watchers and the Celestials--over the eons of existence, they have observed and manipulated the evolution of life and intelligence in our dimension. According to the Shaper, they are beneficent in their motives. They often hire aliens from our universe to do their work for them. For instance, they hired the Nuwali to conduct experiments in evolution in the Savage Land. Later they created Cosmic Cubes. Each Cosmic Cube is a receptacle for energy that comes from their dimension. The Cubes are immensely powerful and can fulfill the wishes of their owners. These Cubes eventually develop and gain an intelligence and desires of their own. The Shaper developed from a Cube made by Skrull scientists. Kubik developed from a Cube made by A.I.M. scientists on Earth.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

IT'll be interesting to see Jane's reaction to seeing Thor again, will she be angry its taken him this long to see her again, or will she just be delighted at seeing him? Going to be interesting to see what they go with.

 

[Godzilla2000]

I´m with you there.

It´s sad that so many criticize their relationship so hard.
While not creating a full blown romance, I think almost everybody who´s been in love should know, that two days of knowing someone are more than enough to have a crush on them.

Speaking as a woman myself, what straight woman would not do what Jane did in Thor given such a hot hunk was so receptive to her advances?

 

[American Maid]

IT'll be interesting to see Jane's reaction to seeing Thor again, will she be angry its taken him this long to see her again, or will she just be delighted at seeing him? Going to be interesting to see what they go with.

Maybe a mixture of both. I mean, she feels what she feels, but two years is a long time. And the thinker in her might have wondered, y'know, maybe I read too much into this back then, since he hasn't shown up. She doesn't have the benefit of Heimdall filling her in on what Thor's up to, so she really can't know whether or how much he is thinking about her.

 

[SimiOfDoom]

Yeah, it will be interesting how she reacts after such a long time to seeing him again.

Speaking as a woman myself, what straight woman would not do what Jane did in Thor given such a hot hunk was so receptive to her advances?

Well.. speaking as a woman, I would, but mostly because I´m not too keen on muscled guys

 

[herolee10]

IT'll be interesting to see Jane's reaction to seeing Thor again, will she be angry its taken him this long to see her again, or will she just be delighted at seeing him? Going to be interesting to see what they go with.

Maybe a mixture of both. I mean, she feels what she feels, but two years is a long time. And the thinker in her might have wondered, y'know, maybe I read too much into this back then, since he hasn't shown up. She doesn't have the benefit of Heimdall filling her in on what Thor's up to, so she really can't know whether or how much he is thinking about her.

I'm curious as well if they'll address on whether she saw him in the news footage covering him at New York City fighting off the Chitauri as well.

And yeah; thankfully, Feige did say that they'll actually address the fact that Thor and Jane only knew each other for like three days, thus making them question on what it is that they exactly feel for each other and such.

 

[American Maid]

I'm curious as well if they'll address on whether she saw him in the news footage covering him at New York City fighting off the Chitauri as well.

And yeah; thankfully, Feige did say that they'll actually address the fact that Thor and Jane only knew each other for like three days, thus making them question on what it is that they exactly feel for each other and such.

I have to think that she would have seen him in news footage from New York covering the battle with the Chitauri (although I don't recall them CGI'ing in any news helicopters in the background, someone would have been crazy enough to go up there to try to shoot footage). This would have been a world-wide, go-live, 24-7 kind of event. If she had been, like, camping in the wilderness for the previous 2 days, she might not get the news immediately. But she doesn't strike me as a camping kind of gal.

The departure back to Asgard would have been highly televised as well.

The first time they meet, I would think she would mention it. It might come up later, too, in the way that huge news events sometimes do.

I also think she would have seen the opening of one or both of the portals that brought Loki and Thor respectively to Earth, as she has access to S.H.I.E.L.D.'s satellites and this is the kind of data they are paying her to monitor and analyze.

 

[herolee10]

Also, 20 bucks and a bag of yogurt says that we'll see Thor and Jane have the standard "night of passion" scene or the famous "morning after" moment within this film.haha

 

[American Maid]

Also, 20 bucks and a bag of yogurt says that we'll see Thor and Jane have the standard "night of passion" scene or the famous "morning after" moment within this film.haha

Ha--yeah. And given where they left off, you might have trouble finding someone to take the other side of your bet.

I think "morning after" is more likely than "night of passion".

 

[Xeno]

Speaking as a woman myself, what straight woman would not do what Jane did in Thor given such a hot hunk was so receptive to her advances?

I'm with you on this. Once in a great while you meet a man who is so hot that being in his presence is enough to make you lose command of the English language and go all googly-eyed. Even a brilliant woman like Jane would be susceptible to the godly charms of Thor, who, let's face it, is the Marvel equivalent of Superman (a gorgeous, superpowered alien who was dropped down in a small American town). Thor's quaintly chivalrous behavior and knowing use of his own good looks would be enough to do almost any woman in.


Thor and Jane obviously did not have time to fall madly in love, but they were just as obviously madly attracted to each other. The two of them spent long hours talking about Jane's research, which Thor understood, and about Asgard and the Nine Realms, which interested Jane. While the writers made a major mistake in having Thor take place over such a short period of time, the chemistry between Thor and Jane makes it easy for the audience to buy into their longing for one another.

 

[cherokeesam]

I don't see what's so hard about buying into "love at first sight"; it's a proven fact of sexual/romantic chemistry, and it happens all the time in romance movies/novels. Some of the greatest romances of all time, both real and fictional, happened with less interaction than Thor and Jane had in the first movie.