The New Ghostbusters - Part 10

[Saint]

But leveling the playing field is not tearing down one gender to promote another.

Sure, and I don't believe that's what this film is doing. In fact, I can only recall two jokes that were actually even about the male gender ("labels are for boys"; Rowan being shot in the dick). And, conversely, if your goal is to make everyone in the world the same height, you don't accomplish it by giving everyone a boost.

But its not as if roles for women are overtly stupid, discriminatory caricatures.

Sure. Few filmmakers sit down and say "I'm going to make women look stupid in this movie." The problem, instead, is that the disparity between men and women is so ingrained that it occurs even unintentionally. While portraying women as helpless and constantly in need of rescue is certainly less overtly malicious than actively denigrating them, the fact that it's less overt but more pervasive actually makes it a more powerful message because it's harder to identify.

Or, more simply: if a guy says "I won't hire you because you're black," well, that problem is easier to address than the guy who doesn't realize that's why he's not hiring you. The former is so extreme that it galvanizes people into action. The latter, which hides and even normalizes discrimination, is far more insidious and difficult to combat.

I don't want the media to give her the idea that the majority of men are buffoonish Neanderthals who are out to hold her down and marginalize her.

Certainly, I agree. If you're looking for positive relationships between men and women, I would consider introducing her to Star Trek: The Next Generation. Not that's it's perfect; the types of stories that the female characters get involved in are weighted heavily towards the romantic, which isn't great. Also, not everyone's interested in sci-fi. Nobody's perfect.

 

[MadVillainy]

so...anybody wanna talk about the box office?

 

[Matt Mortem]

So, it I get this right......in this COMEDY......there are multiple people portrayed as - stupid, obnoxious, sexist, incompetent morons.....or in other words.....this COMEDY is like every other COMEDY made, but people are mad at this one.

Quoted.For.Truth.

 

[danoyse]

So, it I get this right......in this COMEDY......there are multiple people portrayed as - stupid, obnoxious, sexist, incompetent morons.....or in other words.....this COMEDY is like every other COMEDY made, but people are mad at this one.

Yep.

 

[Saint]

So, it I get this right......in this COMEDY......there are multiple people portrayed as - stupid, obnoxious, sexist, incompetent morons.....or in other words.....this COMEDY is like every other COMEDY made, but people are mad at this one.

Thank you.

 

[bluejake01]

Original Ghostbusters - Scared librarian, hapless electric shock guy, dizty dumb blonde girl, scared librarians boss, Dean Yeager, real estate agent, hotel concierge, maid, Walter Peck, doorman at Dana and Luis' building, Luis Tully, various cops, simpering ConEd guy that had to shut down the grid, pissed off selfish mayor...I'm sure I could go on and on...mostly male, and there simply to be a foil for, or a vehicle for our heroes to look good or make with the funny...

 

[Saint]

(hasn't McCarthy straight up admitted that certain scenes were created in response to the negativity?).

So is it not okay to respond to outright hateful sexism?

I have seen several clips that seem to be little more than men demeaning females because they have vaginas and women making fools of the men. One that sticks out is a man just randomly rides up to the ghostbusters on a bike and starts badmouthing them for being women so they respond by blowing up his bike.

Uh... pretty sure none of this happens in the movie. Anybody want to back me up, or am I forgetting something?

 

[bluejake01]

Oh and Matt, the scenes that are a response to the negativity, are ones where they are reading YouTube comments about their videos of ghosts they have encountered, and the comments are actual comments about the reboot.

 

[Matt Mortem]

So is it not okay to respond to outright hateful sexism?



Uh... pretty sure none of this happens in the movie. Anybody want to back me up, or am I forgetting something?

I don't recall those scenes either.

 

[C. Lee]

Uh... pretty sure none of this happens in the movie. Anybody want to back me up, or am I forgetting something?

danoyse said on the previous page this wasn't in the movie.

 

[bluejake01]

So is it not okay to respond to outright hateful sexism?



Uh... pretty sure none of this happens in the movie. Anybody want to back me up, or am I forgetting something?

That clip is not in the movie. It's a promotional clip that cuts together a very stupid interaction between the girls and the delivery guy, and the footage of his bike accidentally getting blasted by the proton glove.

 

[bluejake01]

Matt, while I respect you and your opinions on movies, I won't be discussing this with you any more until your seen the movie. I've spent the last 5 months talking about and defending a movie to people that were ready to hate it without seeing it. I'm done having that debate. When you have an opinion based on actually seeing it, I'm perfectly happy to debate it with you respectfully.

 

[GuestStar2004]

So is it not okay to respond to outright hateful sexism?

Depends how you look at it i guess, say if an actor, lets say a male actor is cast in a role and the internet hates it as the internet tends to do... do you add a line in the movie to bite back at those people that hated it?

 

[SuperBatman]

So is it not okay to respond to outright hateful sexism?



Uh... pretty sure none of this happens in the movie. Anybody want to back me up, or am I forgetting something?

You are correct none of that happens in the movie.

 

[danoyse]

Even so, a movie that portrays the male gender as a bunch of shortsighted, obnoxious, incompetent, sexist buffoons is no more something I want my daughter being exposed to than a movie that portrays her gender as a weak, naive, helpless one.

OK, Matt...here’s the thing....

I adore the original Ghostbusters, But I keep forgetting Sigourney Weaver was in it. And she’s Sigourney freaking Weaver. Ripley, for crying out loud.

And the reason I keep forgetting she was in it was because all she was was the girlfriend. Her entire role was to get captured, be possessed eye-candy, and be rescued by a bunch of guys...and of course end up with one of them. No, Dana wasn’t dumb. But the role kinda was.

So yes, there is a kind of hilarious irony that guys are up in arms that the roles are reversed this time. (by the star of another major franchise, no less) I didn’t take Kevin’s cluelessness as some sort of symbolic representation of the male gender. It was just a goofy role.

As far as gender roles, I don’t recall a scene where these women claim they need to prove themselves just because they’re women. I don’t recall a scene where men try to take them down just because they’re women. Their whole motivation is that they want people to believe that a) there are ghosts and b) they can bust ghosts. Because they can, not because they’re women.

The mayor goes after them because he doesn’t want the public to know that ghosts are in NYC. The villain goes after them because he goes after everybody. He’s crazy.

That scene you mentioned before, where that guy gets blasted because he says they’re doing “their little science experiments”? That scene isn’t even in the movie.

I know how important it is for your daughter to see good role models and fair representation. I adored the women in this movie. They were smart, and funny, and I loved seeing some ladies at the center of the big (albeit completely overdone) action sequence in the third act. It’s not about man-bashing, it’s about proving you can do the job you were meant to do. That’s important for young girls to see, and I think this movie does a pretty fine job of it.

Honestly, I think you’ve already made up your mind about what you think this movie is and you’re just going to see what you want to see at this point. But I have seen it....it’s not perfect, but it’s not what you’re presuming either.

 

[Saint]

Depends how you look at it i guess, say if an actor, lets say a male actor is cast in a role and the internet hates it as the internet tends to do... do you add a line in the movie to bite back at those people that hated it?

Sure, if that's the kind of movie you want to make. I'm not sure what you expected me to say to this. How's it any different than Deadpool making snide remarks about Green Lantern?

 

[Saint]

Saw a review on this where the reviewer's argument was literally "Kevin is proof that this movie hates men. Also, Kevin was the only likable character in the movie."

The contradiction is absurd to the point of comedy.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Sure, if that's the kind of movie you want to make. I'm not sure what you expected me to say to this. How's it any different than Deadpool making snide remarks about Green Lantern?

Deadpool is comic accurately known for all that meta stuff, there is a difference.

 

[danoyse]

Depends how you look at it i guess, say if an actor, lets say a male actor is cast in a role and the internet hates it as the internet tends to do... do you add a line in the movie to bite back at those people that hated it?

I don't see why they can't.

 

[bluejake01]

Deadpool is comic accurately known for all that meta stuff, there is a difference.

It was not presented in a meta self referential way. They were literally just looking at the YouTube comments for a video they posted in the narrative, and the comments they read out loud and the ones on the screen were from the first trailer. It's not like they were watching the trailer for the movie. It worked just fine and served a story function.

 

[Saint]

Deadpool is comic accurately known for all that meta stuff, there is a difference.

Not if that's the kind of movie you want to make, there isn't.

 

[Xrated48]

so...anybody wanna talk about the box office?

Yes I do it's looks like this film will most likely have a hard time making back its budget.

 

[Blade X]

That argument is a nonstarter. There is no way to prove or disprove it. And Occum's razor would indicate that there are zealots on either side that love it or hate it, but the majority of reviews are middle ground, and the consensus is that it is a fun movie with some flaws, but is overall enjoyable. Any other theories you concoct that require assumptions about other people's emotional states or secret motivations, are nothing more than flights of fancy.

It wasn't meant to be an argument. All I'm saying is that SOME (NOT MOST and NOT ALL) of those positive and middle ground reviews MIGHT (as in "NOT OUT OF THE REALM OF POSIBILITY") be because the reviewers don't want to be labeled sexist and/or because they want to push their own social/political views.

 

[Kanon]

$46M DOM, $19M overseas

 

[Victarion]

Saw this with a friend. Not bad, Rowan aside. Holtzman was hands down the funniest of the team. I'd like to see a better written villain in our sequel, maybe throw an Extreme Ghostbusters spin on the villains for the sequel...to keep them fresh.