Comics The "New Ways to Die" Thread...

[kguillou]

Well, i'm not too sure its gona be a "logical" explanation, but yea i'm relieved that is some sort non-magical explanation for all this. Oh well, i'm just looking forward to Green Goblin vs. Spiderman with Romita's beautiful artwork.

Besides that though, the solicitations say that another classic spidey villain will be popping up in the next couple of issues. Who do you guys think it'll be? Here's hoping for Dr. Octopus!!

 

[Themanofbat]

Well, i'm not too sure its gona be a "logical" explanation, but yea i'm relieved that is some sort non-magical explanation for all this. Oh well, i'm just looking forward to Green Goblin vs. Spiderman with Romita's beautiful artwork.

Well, you're right about the "logical" part... these are comic books after all.

But I'm glad that Peter knows that he did something to reverse the effects of his unmasking, so that continuity loophole is now put to rest... it can be a Loki mindwipe, or even something with Dr.Strange, but at least it's not Mephisto (I hope) and maybe we can start moving on with the continuity issues... the only glaring one (for me) will be Harry's ressurection, but as already stated, his reappearance can be as easily explained as his father's.

 

[J. J. Jameson]

My Review of Amazing Spider-Man #569:

If you read my previous review of last issue, you'll know that I raved about it and thought it was fantastic. And I do. I loved a Spider-Man book again and it felt good. Everything was right in the world. I couldn't wait for the next issue. And then it finally came in the mail.

A little part of me died as I read this issue. I was so excited to read it, and when I did, there were several big things that kept me from loving it...from even liking it a lot. While the story is progressing well, and it is interesting, I can only marvel at how much more interesting it would be if this was taking place pre-OMD.

Let me start with the good stuff. One word: Anti-Venom. I like this. Eddie with a symbiote again makes things a little bit more Spidey-ish. Granted, he is, as the name implies, not like his counterpart. Inverted color schemes, I imagine, are the only beginning of the difference between Anti-Venom and Venom. I'm very, very interested to see how this could be used, and it could be used well. Eddie Venom already had that "lethal protector" aspect to him, so imagine what it would be like to have anti-hero Venom. I like it. I'm sure lots of fans hate it, but I like. Another plus for the issue was Slott's writing. His dialogue is great, as usual. And Peter "sounds" like Peter. And my favorite part of the issue was, of course, Romita's artwork. But that goes without saying.

And then there's the bad...

Where do I begin? The biggest slap in the face to me was Peter recalling that "Oh, that's right, no one knows who I am now." What?? Peter knows about the unmasking? Peter knows something of OMD? More importantly, why isn't he angrier?? It presents a slew of questions, but let me move on. Second thing, and the one that I hate...loathe the most: Norman Osborn doesn't know that Peter is Spider-Man. Right there, that just stripped the character of years worth of growth and layering. He just doesn't seem like Osborn. There's...not that looming threat that not only is Spidey in personal danger, but MJ and May and Robbie and JJJ and (in the new status quo) Carlie simply because of who Peter is. What's the point? Incidentally, does this mean the Symbiote/Venom doesn't know who Peter is?? Because that really would take the cake. Finally, my last big complaint is that there's all these little reminders from Marvel that say "LOL! We screwed you're favorite character!" I really want to like this story. But how can I when OMD is constantly thrown at us? "New Ways to Die" is falling into the trap that nearly every BND story has: mediocrity plagued by the confines of BND itself.

You know, though....the funniest thing is, I could handle nearly everything (except for Norman not knowing who Spider-Man is!! WHAT THE HECK, MARVEL???!!) if only Mary Jane and Peter still were married and together, grounding the story solidly in Spidey continuity. I actually just received #570 in the mail today early. I'm reading it tonight and posting a review later. I hope things get better. If they don't, I'm fairly certain that this is my last story arc in Amazing Spider-Man until things get better.

I give this issue a 6/10. I didn't hate it...but I didn't like it that much either. The changes to the characters (Norman, possibly Venom, etc.) alienate me from the story waaay too much.

 

[Themanofbat]

I'm glad that you're going to continue with it... and 60% satisfaction is not bad... not great, but not bad...

As I've mentioned before, I don't believe Peter remembers anything concerning OMD, but I DO believe that he has done something with another character (possibly Loki and/or Dr.Strange) to make his identity secret. THIS answers a LOT of questions about whether Peter remembers the unmasking and stuff like that, and it also explains how the characters that Peter knew that knew his identity have now forgotten, so it makes the continuity of the story work, and we can see a bit more clearly now that this new era is indeed a contuation of 616 as opposed to some alternative storyline.

And lastly, I know that many people will get pissed that Norman doesn't know anymore... but he could find out again someday... he is rather smart and ruthless, but the truth to the matter is simply that Norman had run out of gas as a character (as far as being a Spider-Man villain). He's been working out great as the Thunderbolts leader, but his effectiveness as a Spider-Man villain has been reduced to mass manipulator and a puller-of-strings... he doesn't even need to put on the Goblin outfit anymore because he is more dangerous to Peter as Norman Osborn.

It's why Marvel basically killed him off in 1973, because in 5 years, they had to use the "Norman gets amnesia" storyline 3 times, to the point that it was rather mundane, and once he was dead, we got second string Goblins and then the HobGoblin, who was a much needed villain at the time, continuing the legacy of Goblins in Spidey-lore.

So much like Eddie Brock, we get to see a new lease on life for Norman Osborn, but more importantly, the Green Goblin. Because without the identity knowledge, Norman makes Peter nervous... but the Green Goblin is once again one of his most dangerous foes, should Norman ever don the costume.

That's how I see it... I hope others feel the same way.

Cheers...

 

[USMC]

I'm glad that you're going to continue with it... and 60% satisfaction is not bad... not great, but not bad...

As I've mentioned before, I don't believe Peter remembers anything concerning OMD, but I DO believe that he has done something with another character (possibly Loki and/or Dr.Strange) to make his identity secret. THIS answers a LOT of questions about whether Peter remembers the unmasking and stuff like that, and it also explains how the characters that Peter knew that knew his identity have now forgotten, so it makes the continuity of the story work, and we can see a bit more clearly now that this new era is indeed a contuation of 616 as opposed to some alternative storyline.

And lastly, I know that many people will get pissed that Norman doesn't know anymore... but he could find out again someday... he is rather smart and ruthless, but the truth to the matter is simply that Norman had run out of gas as a character (as far as being a Spider-Man villain). He's been working out great as the Thunderbolts leader, but his effectiveness as a Spider-Man villain has been reduced to mass manipulator and a puller-of-strings... he doesn't even need to put on the Goblin outfit anymore because he is more dangerous to Peter as Norman Osborn.

It's why Marvel basically killed him off in 1973, because in 5 years, they had to use the "Norman gets amnesia" storyline 3 times, to the point that it was rather mundane, and once he was dead, we got second string Goblins and then the HobGoblin, who was a much needed villain at the time, continuing the legacy of Goblins in Spidey-lore.

So much like Eddie Brock, we get to see a new lease on life for Norman Osborn, but more importantly, the Green Goblin. Because without the identity knowledge, Norman makes Peter nervous... but the Green Goblin is once again one of his most dangerous foes, should Norman ever don the costume.

That's how I see it... I hope others feel the same way.

Cheers...

Yeah, i don't mind that Norman doesn't remember... part of his character (to me) is that he has gone in and out several times in Spidey's history with knowledge and amnesia of the identity. This seems "normal" to me, haha.

Now, if Venom doesn't know... well that's a different matter all together and just annoying.

 

[Styleshift]

Norman doesn't need to remember to be a good villian.

I don't find him very formidable seeing as Peter has once knocked him out with a mailbox.....but his wits is what sets him apart from most villians.

It's funny seeing someone be able to outwit Peter the same way Peter outwits most of his foes.

 

[Blader5489]

Yeah, i don't mind that Norman doesn't remember... part of his character (to me) is that he has gone in and out several times in Spidey's history with knowledge and amnesia of the identity. This seems "normal" to me, haha.

Just what I was going to say. Norman has forgotten Spider-Man's identity as many times as he has remembered it.

 

[Themanofbat]

Well, we got our comics yesterday in Canada (the REAL home of the free ), and I withheld saying anything because I don't like to tease my peers...

What a great issue... not much answered as far as the bigger picture goes, but what a great action packed issue... nice cliffhanger moment for Spidey as well as a VERY surprising last panel...

And Romita Jr's art has never looked better...

Thus far, this arc has been everything that it promised to be...

 

[Themanofbat]

Norman doesn't need to remember to be a good villian.

And this point is nailed home with ASM #570.

 

[Themanofbat]

One thing that does make me wonder though is...

[blackout]if Eddie Brock is not a symbiote, then why doesn't Spider-Man's Spider-Sense not work with him?[/blackout]

 

[moraldeficiency]

While I don't mind it either, I've always enjoyed the confrontations when he does far more than when he's got anmesia again for the 30th time. GG vs. Spider-Man is good don't get me wrong but Norman Osborn vs. Peter Parker is just so much better.

 

[WolfCypher]

Quickie reviews. Thorough enough. Whatya want from me?!



ASM 570

Spoiler

Spidey races torwards the FEAST center. Venom (Gargan) is there. Aunt May is there. Spidey should be there. HURRY UP! You didn't give up your marriage to let her die this soon into BND!



Anti-Venom slams Venom around. He tells Gargan that the symbiote is a poisionous cancer that will kill him, and that he (Eddie/Anti-Venom) is the cure. Spidey arrives and tackles Venom, giving Aunt May, Mr. Li, and the homeless a chance to duck into Mr. Li's office/panic room, complete with monitor and titanium-enforced walls (Aunt May takes this time to ask why on Earth would a homeless shelter need a panic room).



Spidey then notices the...white...white Venom?! Venom & Anti-Venom go at it again, with Spidey literally in the middle. Venom tells Spider-Man to let him and Brock at it by themselves.



Brock?! Spidey's taken by surprise two times, both by the fact that the original Venom, Eddie Brock, is now this new white Venom, and by the two Venoms punching him simeltaneously, sending him soaring over rooftops. (Funny moment: both Brock & Gargan take this moment to talk to each other about how cool it was that they both sent him flying, before realizing that the hate each other, and start back fighting)



Meanwhile, Osborn (yeah, Norman and the other TBolts are here, they didn't go home) is on his way via jet, with Bullseye in tow.



Menance's here in this story, too (seriously with so much Venom-on-Venom, Spidey action, its easy to forget the subplots) He blasts his way into Bill Holister's office, ranting about ending Bill's campaign. The explosion rendered evryone in that office unconscious, including Bill. Menance picks up Bill and tries to wake him up, saying that this act can't work if everyone's unconscious, and that he's doing this all for Bill's benefit (HUH?! All this time, Menance and Bill Holister...together?! Now I'm interested in Menance) when the police and chase Menance away.



Now, back to the reason you picked up this issue/reading this 'review'. Anti-Venom and Venom are still duking it out. Every contact Brock makes on Gargan dissolves away Gargan's symbiote. Gargan has to keep his distanct, so he chucks a car at Brock, which Brock then tosses aside, towards an elderly man. Anti-Venom panics, until Spidey diverts the flung vehicle away. Anti-Venom realizes the "good" in Spider-Man (which Spidey replies "thanks for finally noticing"). Well, Norman arrives at the site, and decides to wait things out instead of going into the fray, saying that wearing Spidey down would be the better situation as Spidey is accustomed to handling multiple baddies at once (and flashbacks to Spidey's fight with the Green Goblin and the Enforceres).



Now, we're in a standstill. Anti-Venom, Venom, and Spidey stare each other down, none of them sure who to attack 1st. Spidey learns that Anti-Venom wants to destroy the Venom symbiote, so he choices to team-up with Brock and double-team Gargan. (Gargan: "No fair!"; Spidey: "Oh, man! That is one of life's little treasures! When one of the badguys says "no fair".") Spidey webs Gargan in place while Anti-Venom hammers away at Gargan. Spidey then grabs Venom from behind while Anti-Venom stabs into Gargan with his extended symbiote-claw tendrils, eroding the Venom symbiote into hot, burning dust.



Well, now the comic interludes at the Front Line offices, where Ben Urich, Robbie Robertson, and others on the staff discuss the phots Peter took the issue before last issue about that sweatshop of Crowne's. Nothing major. Let's skip this. Whatya expect?! I SAID going in that these were quickie reviews, dammit!



Back at the heart of the matter, Spidey stands over a symbioteless (mostly symbioteless) Mac Gargan as Anti-Venom continues to kill the remains of the Venom symbiote. Anti-Venom assures to Spidey that Gargan will ive, and that Venom will be no more. He states how before Venom, he himself (Eddie) was a good man, then he remembers something. Before Eddie, Spidey was the original host to the symbiote. He MUST have some of it left in his system! Eddie can sense it!



He takes Spidey by surprise and lashes his Anti-Venom symbiote (anti-symbiote?) into Spidey to cleanse him. Spidey tells him to stop. Then Anti-Venom senses something else...Spider-Man's blood is tainted (radioactive blood) and decides to cleanse that as well (whoa boy ).



Osborn wathes on, staying in contact with Songbird and Radioactive Man. He tells both of them to stay on standby while he lets this surprise element play out. The surprise element being Anti-Venom's sudden "attack" on Spider-Man. Speaking of surprise elements, Osborn turns around and finds himself face-to-face with...Menance!

 

[arachnid-guy]

Man, Im very impressed with the speed this arc is coming out. 4 issues more or less in 4 weeks? It's pretty speedy work.

As much as I dislike the BND direction [Im only collecting NWTD for the time being] I am impressed with the speedy work of John Romita Jr.

 

[Themanofbat]

Wow...

That's one sweet looking cover...

 

[Farren]

I like how Spidey's feet are propped on GG's leg and arm. I always love how effortlessly Pete can perch on walls and upside down.

 

[J. J. Jameson]

Man, Im very impressed with the speed this arc is coming out. 4 issues more or less in 4 weeks? It's pretty speedy work.

As much as I dislike the BND direction [Im only collecting NWTD for the time being] I am impressed with the speedy work of John Romita Jr.

Oh yes. t:

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Man, Im very impressed with the speed this arc is coming out. 4 issues more or less in 4 weeks? It's pretty speedy work.

As much as I dislike the BND direction [Im only collecting NWTD for the time being] I am impressed with the speedy work of John Romita Jr.

As I said in another thread, that cover is fantastic!

 

[WolfCypher]

http://comics.ign.com/articles/908/908053p1.html

 

[kguillou]

I'm really enjoying this arc so far, and can't wait for the big showdown between Norman and Spider-man. Plus, there's supposed to be a classic spidey villain showing up in part 4, hmm...here's hoping for Doc Ock!

On a quick side note, is it just me or did Norman Osborn's haircut suddenly change in part 3? What's with the military cut all of a sudden??

 

[imdaly]

http://comics.ign.com/articles/908/908053p1.html

Basically confirming the suspicions of some of us here:

About nobody knowing Spidey's ID:

Something happened that made everyone on earth forget, even people who knew before the unmasking, though we haven't yet shown what it was.

This obviously shows us that it's not as simple as it just being "Mephisto did it".


About Spidey's "WE" when speaking about him obviously being aware of the mind-wipe about his ID:

...no one ever said "we" was Mephisto.

Again, confirming that as far as the mind-wipe goes, it's most likely NOT Mephisto's doing.


And THIS certainly has my attention!

IGN Comics: This week's mailbag column brought an interesting comment from you – that "What broke [Peter and MJ] up is a story waiting to be told and one we're working on right now with current plans to bring it to you next summer." Is there anything else you can tell us about these plans at this point? Are we looking at some sort of Spider-Man event? Will the book be monthly or weekly at that point?

Wacker: No plans to go monthly right now as folks seem to dig the schedule the more they get used to it.

As for what broke Peter and MJ up, we're aiming #600 right now, and we'll be teasing answers in the books until then. Then immediately after that we've got a big status quo changing story that we're all meeting in 2 weeks to break down. It's something I've been wanting to do since the very first day I got handed the keys to this car, something I scribbled on the side of Brevoort's Manifesto… right next to my suggestion of "Glen Stacy".

And how's THIS for ominous??:

I think it's great Mat mentioned "Menace" and "gene pool".

Could Menace be a clone?
Could Menace be Eugene "Flash" Thomposon??

 

[WolfCypher]

I'm really enjoying this arc so far, and can't wait for the big showdown between Norman and Spider-man. Plus, there's supposed to be a classic spidey villain showing up in part 4, hmm...here's hoping for Doc Ock!

On a quick side note, is it just me or did Norman Osborn's haircut suddenly change in part 3? What's with the military cut all of a sudden??

The earliest solicitations for NWTD showed promotional artwork (which was used for the cover of that Marvel Spotlight ASM issue) of Spidey, MJ, Venom, Anti-Venom, and Kraven's tombstone. Could Kraven, somehow, be the returning Spidey villain?

I've been thinking that Kraven's role was not hinted to be in NWTD but the story right before it (with that female Kraven). But before, I was thinking that this returning classic villain had to be one of the following:

Kraven - How on Earth could Kraven fit into NWTD, anyway? Plus, his legacy was just recently revisited already with the very previous arc. The Marvel Spotlight issue makes one think Kraven could have a role here, but I'm seriously doubting it now.

Eddie Brock/Venom - This seemed like the most likliest answer. With Marvel revamping Venom's origins in "Dark Origin", with USM's "War of the Symbiotes" going on, and with Eddie returning and playing a big role in NWTD, it only seemed obvious to think that Brock would return as Venom...but if you've been reading NWTD, you'd see that, with his recent personality change and the whole "Anti-Venom" thing going on, that'd be impossible. He doesn't want to be Venom ever again, and how could he now that he's Anti-Venom? I don't expect him to separate from that Anti-venom whatever it is (symbiote? Anti-symbiote?) just to rejoin with the alien he's been trying to kill (and doing a fairly good job at).

Norman Osborn/Green Goblin - The preview art for the rest of NWTD has already given away that Norman dons the Green Goblin gear, and that interview I posted confirmed that we will see more effects from Osborn's return to being GG.

So basically we already know what classic villain is returning.

 

[kguillou]

Well the thing is if you read the solicitations for the next two issues it says that: " ...a classic Spider-Man foe returns to the fold!". We've already been introduced to norman and eddie, and i think this implies that someone else is going to be joining the party. Besides green goblin and venom, i think they might use doc ock, vulture or maybe even electro!

 

[imdaly]

The earliest solicitations for NWTD showed promotional artwork (which was used for the cover of that Marvel Spotlight ASM issue) of Spidey, MJ, Venom, Anti-Venom, and Kraven's tombstone. Could Kraven, somehow, be the returning Spidey villain?

I think that promo pic was more of a "A look a head at the next few months" type of thing. Showing that MJ was going to be showing up, a Kraven story was coming, and NWTD with Venom was coming.

Well the thing is if you read the solicitations for the next two issues it says that: " ...a classic Spider-Man foe returns to the fold!". We've already been introduced to norman and eddie, and i think this implies that someone else is going to be joining the party. Besides green goblin and venom, i think they might use doc ock, vulture or maybe even electro!

Unless we have another big twist coming (which is certainly possible), I'm just going to assume right now that the classic Spidey foe who's going to be showing up with in fact be Green Goblin. So far, we've only seen Norman, but not AS the Big Double-G. But again, I could definitely be wrong about this...

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

http://comics.ign.com/articles/908/908053p1.html

Awesome!

 

[Venom 1988]

I think that promo pic was more of a "A look a head at the next few months" type of thing. Showing that MJ was going to be showing up, a Kraven story was coming, and NWTD with Venom was coming

This

I read that comic promo in the at my LCS and it wasen't stirctly about New Ways to Die, just preview of things to come in the next couple of months.