The Dark Knight The Official Alfred Pennyworth Thread

[chamber-music]

Well, it's pretty much indisputable that Oldman's Gordon kicks the tar out of Pat Hingle's.

I still prefer Michael Caine's Alfred though. I like his increased role, and believability as a character. I found Gough's to be much more one dimensional, like a cardboard cutout of an Enlgish butler. I still like Gough, though, he's the Alfred of my youth.

I agree. You could of taken a any 60+ queens english speaking actor and they could of done Goughs role. Gough was alright but he didn't bring anything to the role, it was just standard posh butler.

Caine actully brought presence and believeability to the role.
Caine can do other accents but choose his own for the role and it really didn't bother me. Caines Alfred reminded me of parker from thunderbirds.

 

[DaddyGrayson]

Yawn^ i was close enough if a single lettering error amuses you you must be really lonely.

And Gough WAS the better alfred and we all know it (most of us anyway) if you love BB fine but dont act like it is infallible. just as Gough is the best as alfred i would say oldmans commissioner gordon kicks seven shades out of Pat Hingles take even if personally oldman missed the grufff edge i always thought Gordon should have.

I don't think anyone here acted as if it were infallible. And Gough being the better Alfred is debatable. And even if he were to be the better Alfred, being WAY better is incorrect. It all comes down to opinion, and whether or not you can get past the fact that it's Michael Caine.

And Burton's movies were far from infallible as well. I just don't really see you say anything positive about these new series of movies, which begs the question, why are you here? If you like Burton's movies more, that's fine by me. It's all about opinion. But if you didn't like BB and bash it the way you do, why are you hanging out on its sequels message board?

On a side note, I'm not trying to fight ya. I'm just really curious as to why you hang around if you dislike the movie as much as you seem to.

 

[CaptainClown]

I don't think anyone here acted as if it were infallible. And Gough being the better Alfred is debatable. And even if he were to be the better Alfred, being WAY better is incorrect. It all comes down to opinion, and whether or not you can get past the fact that it's Michael Caine.

And Burton's movies were far from infallible as well. I just don't really see you say anything positive about these new series of movies, which begs the question, why are you here? If you like Burton's movies more, that's fine by me. It's all about opinion. But if you didn't like BB and bash it the way you do, why are you hanging out on its sequels message board?

On a side note, I'm not trying to fight ya. I'm just really curious as to why you hang around if you dislike the movie as much as you seem to.

he really likes to talk about how much he doesnt like the movie. These boards there must always be a balance. He is the anti-tdk fan. Without him we cannot exist.... It is a balance....

Also I don't care for either of the Alfreds. TAS all the way. I only like Caines more because he seems like more of a father to me and able to speak his mind. Also he was a lot funnier.

 

[Shoemeister]

You know, opinions are a lot like a**holes: everyone's except for mine stinks.

 

[The Sage]

Couple of things about Caine (coming from a guy who is as big a fan of Caine as he is of Batman):

1) I think his best performances are from The Quiet American, Educating Rita, Little Voice, Alfie, A Shock to the System and The Man Who Would Be King...plus he was incredible in both The Prestige and The Children of Men last year!

2) He could easily have affected a proper English accent for Alfred (half his roles have been non-cockneys). But Caine actually decided to create a backstory for Alfred with a humble background. He pictured Alfred as growing up in an orphanage taking care of the younger kids...then going straight into the army, taking care of his fellow soldiers (he even remembered an old sergeant of his that inspired his performance). His character would receive some injury (presumably from battle) and become a mess sergeant, running a military kitchen.

From Caine's view, Alfred must've crossed paths with the Wayne family...maybe even met Thomas Wayne's father in a military setting. Thus, hiring him on to take care of Thomas Wayne and family, knowing they will be getting more than just a servant.

Which would explain Alfred's versatility and resourcefulness in helping Batman fight crime...as well as serve him dinner.

I remember reading Caine's approach to Alfred and liking his ideas. It makes sense; Alfred's supposed to be a combat medic, possibly a former member of the MI-6, and a stage actor. I love Gough's Alfred, but Michael Caine's approach does bring a belief to that background. To Gough's credit, I'm guessing his Alfred was moreso based on the early Alfred.

I agree with CaptainClown: TAS Alfred was the best.

 

[DaddyGrayson]

he really likes to talk about how much he doesnt like the movie. These boards there must always be a balance. He is the anti-tdk fan. Without him we cannot exist.... It is a balance....

Also I don't care for either of the Alfreds. TAS all the way. I only like Caines more because he seems like more of a father to me and able to speak his mind. Also he was a lot funnier.

I understand not liking parts of BB. And I understand complaining about them on here. But why if you hated the movie and thought it was horrible would you post on here? Why?

That's like if I went on a [insert terrible movie here] board and did nothing but complain. It makes no sense!

On a side, BTAS Alfred was the best.

 

[CaptainClown]

my favorite alfred part from TAS is when he goes "i drew you a bath master bruce" then shows him a picture of a bathtub.

 

[The Man of Steel]

my favorite alfred part from TAS is when he goes "i drew you a bath master bruce" then shows him a picture of a bathtub.

 

[DaddyGrayson]

my favorite alfred part from TAS is when he goes "i drew you a bath master bruce" then shows him a picture of a bathtub.

I had forgotten about that one.

 

[DavidTyler]

Personally, I wasn't a huge fan of much from the Burton movie. I remember leaving it and thinking 'Oh well, I guess it's still too early for Hollywood to make a serious Batman film.'

Gough's 'Alfred' was NOT the Alfred of my youth. The Alfred I grew up with was a sparring partner for Bruce; a medic; a thespian; and not geriatric. Gough's 'Alfred' was grandfatherly. Not what I would want to see in the character.

While I would have loved to have had Kingsley as Alfred (I was the first and loudest voice here for his selection ... just as I was for Crispin Glover as the Joker) but I'm OK with Caine. He and Nolan have moved him from a grandfatherly role to a vibrant, interactive partner who more closely fits the comics version of the character despite the lack of a clipped Brit accent and a thin mustache.

I'm fine with Caine and I DO respect his acting chops. And, for what it's worth, I loved him best in 'Deathtrap'. He's turned in many a decent preformance in other films as well.

 

[The Guard]

Just as many actors could have played Gough's Alfred, anyone remotely suitable could have played Caine's Alfred as well. That door swings both ways.

I have yet to see the Alfred of my youth in media other than comics, except on BTAS, where he was reduced a bit too much to comic relief.

 

[Damiean Dark]

True when i see the likes of Ian Mckellen act i can see him as alfred the witty quips and fatherly advice would be gold delivered by him Ben Kingsley could also be amazing as a more BTAS based alfred again caine is okay but he just isnt alfred to me.

 

[El Payaso]

I totally agree with you. It was either Hamm's script or Burton's direction that didn't develop the characters of Alfred and Gordon all that well. I guess that was the intention? They wanted the characters to be already established like Batman. I haven't read the original script all the way through, so I'm not sure if that was the original idea.

Respect to Gordon, it is the way he was in the first comic books; a secondary character barely related to Batman. In that respect, he is intentionally developed that way.

Respect to Alfred; wtf. He is properly developed in the movie. Helping Bruce, questioning him in a nice and then an angry way, protecting Bruce from his own creation and protecting others from it (Vicki) and finally, forcing Bruce's hand so "Batman" wouldn't hurt other people. Pretty much the same he did in BB.

It's clear most of the character development of '89 went to Jack's Joker.

The more screentime. Character development not always equals screentime.

I really think the actors did the best job for what they were given, but I too enjoy the development done for both Alfred and Gordon in the new series. That is one of my favorite differences between this series and the old one.

I enjoyed that very much. Gordon I mean; Alfred I saw him properly developed before.

But what Oldman did is simply making Gordon jump off the comics.

 

[Damiean Dark]

Oldman did rock but it is slightly unfair on hingle he got zero screentime or character development in B89 it was a train wreck all the way to B&R where he was reduced to terrible comic relif shame that.

 

[Conebone69]

Not sure if he's gonna be any deferant in this movie, but I've got some idea's on what they could do with the character,
They could

#1 have him get sick in this movie
#2 have him help Batman out in a battle (not by fighting)
#3 have him and fox find the way to stop Joker
#4 have him save batman (in a really big way)
#5 have him die O)

what do you guy's think?

I really like the idea of him getting sick. He should get sick when everything gets insane for bruce

 

[hegele]

I really like the idea of him getting sick. He should get sick when everything gets insane for bruce

initially I think the idea is too reminiscent of Batman & Robin, but it could be done well.

 

[Conebone69]

initially I think the idea is too reminiscent of Batman & Robin, but it could be done well.

Alfred got sick in B&R? I dont remember that

 

[hegele]

Alfred got sick in B&R? I dont remember that

He was dying, thats why his niece comes to Gotham and eventually becomes Batgirl.

Its actually mentioned in the trailer-

http://youtube.com/watch?v=aKNSstnq4sg

Good thing people don't remember, they shouldn't!

 

[thedarks0ldier]

You know, opinions are a lot like a**holes: everyone's except for mine stinks.

Shoemeister you have the coolest avy. Who is that in it?

 

[The Mobb]

Here's a blasphemy for you: I'm not that fond of TAS' Alfred. Love the dry wit, but I can't say I really grasp his relationship to Bruce. I guess I just don't see after all those years of him parenting Bruce, being the shoulder he cried on, how that relationship can be quite so stereotypically master/servant. What I like about BB's Alfred is you could see that while there was some pretense of master/servant (particularly when a third party was present), Bruce really related to Alfred more as a father figure. I like how casual and natural their interaction is. The formality of their interaction in B:TAS (even when it was just the two of them) seemed odd given that Alfred raised him. It's unnatural that they would interact that way when they were alone.

Also, I don't think it's hypocritical to mind that an actor is recognizable in a particular role, but to not be bothered with a different actor/role. I mind Jack's Joker, but love Jack in the Departed (for example) where he is just as recognizable. We all have different expectations for different characters, do we not?

At any rate, I love Caine as Alfred, and the believability he brings to the Bruce-Alfred dynamic.

 

[DoctorJones]

Gough's 'Alfred' was NOT the Alfred of my youth. The Alfred I grew up with was a sparring partner for Bruce; a medic; a thespian; and not geriatric. Gough's 'Alfred' was grandfatherly. Not what I would want to see in the character. [...]

[Caine] and Nolan have moved him from a grandfatherly role to a vibrant, interactive partner who more closely fits the comics version of the character despite the lack of a clipped Brit accent and a thin mustache.

I'm fine with Caine and I DO respect his acting chops. And, for what it's worth, I loved him best in 'Deathtrap'. He's turned in many a decent preformance in other films as well.

Agreed. When I heard Caine was playing the role, I jumped with joy. Caine is an Oscar-winning legend. And he's very funny, very cool and very fatherly. Not to mention he looks more like the original comic book character!

 

[The Guard]

Agree re: TAS Alfred. I think both Gough and Caine have elements of the comic book Alfred, though neither really looks much like him.

 

[Gianakin_]

Oh yes.

But I don't want to see anyone bashing Nicholson for being too Jack and then defending Caine's Alfred.

That said, I liked his Alfred a lot.

Agreed. I'm one of those who accuse Jack of not being versatile enough, especially as the Joker, and Caine in BB was equally non-versatile, but his usual Caine self (also seen in Bewitched, Goldmember, Children of Men).
My biggest difference is what level of versatility each character needed.

 

[lixdexia]

as much as i loved caine, gough will always be alfred to me. i'm not a burtonite, but that is THE iconic alfred to me

 

[Damiean Dark]

when i hear the name Alfred pennyworth it doesnt even suit the character caine portrayed in BB.