The Official Batman Returns Thread

[Bat Attack]

And catwomans costume kind of represents her mental state. The costume starts out stiched together (after her big "freak out" in the apartment) but unravels throughout the rest of the film until the climax when she rips the mask off.

 

[ab38416]

edit

 

[Bat Attack]

If you watch the 3 movies carefully, there is a clear character arc going on for Bruce Wayne. The first film establishes him, the second film sends him down a dark path, & the third film redeems him. It's a classic trilogy structure. This leads me to believe that Burton did preliminary work on Batman Forever & he later met with the Batchlers to make sure they tie up all the loose ends correctly. That was all Tim contributed to the movie. Batman Forever resolves Wayne's arc, despite Schumacher's attempt to move as far away from Burton's films as possible.

Notice how the flashback scenes stand out. I'm willing to bet that most of the Red Diary subplot came from Burton's mind. He also mentioned in some interviews that if Bruce had ever gotten therapy, he wouldn't have to be Batman anymore. Well, in Batman Forever, Bruce gets therapy and is effectively cured at the end. I don't think this was a coincidence. Burton was involved with Batman Forever more than you think.

Do you have anything to back that up? The Batchlers themselves said (on the Batman Forever SE DVD, Disc 2) there was only one meeting and during it all that happened was the duality speech and it was a done deal after that.

 

[Mr.E.Nygma]

In conclusion, the author demonstrate that Burton directed an amazing film before turning nihilist in the third act.

 

[Emperor Bohe]

I was watching this 2 days ago. I forgot how beautiful this movie is.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

I was watching this 2 days ago. I forgot how beautiful this movie is.

It truly is. The abandoned zoo full of ice statues and the cathedral-like sewers are really wonderful, mystical places. That's what's so great about Batman movies; you can go from such gothic, borderline fantasy extremes to the sober reality(ish) of Nolan's Gotham.

 

[The Joker]

Batman Returns is one of the deepest, thematically rich Batman movies out there.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Batman Returns is one of the deepest, thematically rich Batman movies out there.

Indeed. Alongside Batman Forever.

 

[Bat Attack]

I love the lighting during the whole "things change" scene. Creepy and mysterious, thats the best thing about the film IMO, is the mystery of the characters.

 

[Bat Attack]

wow, 15 years tomorrow.

 

[GoogleMe94]

This pic is makin me horny. god i love this film.

 

[GoogleMe94]

Indeed. Alongside Batman Forever.

no.


anyways, i consider thre 2 be 3 different bat-franchises. first there was burtons series, which lasted through 2 very good movies. then there was schumacher's series, which lasted through 2 pretty lousy movies. now there is nolans series, which will probably be around 3 movies, sinc haveing "trilogies" is the it thing to do with franchises nowadays. still would have prefered burtons batman 3 to all the other ones that came after his movies.

 

[mystory64]

If you watch the 3 movies carefully, there is a clear character arc going on for Bruce Wayne. The first film establishes him, the second film sends him down a dark path, & the third film redeems him. It's a classic trilogy structure. This leads me to believe that Burton did preliminary work on Batman Forever & he later met with the Batchlers to make sure they tie up all the loose ends correctly. That was all Tim contributed to the movie. Batman Forever resolves Wayne's arc, despite Schumacher's attempt to move as far away from Burton's films as possible.

Notice how the flashback scenes stand out. I'm willing to bet that most of the Red Diary subplot came from Burton's mind. He also mentioned in some interviews that if Bruce had ever gotten therapy, he wouldn't have to be Batman anymore. Well, in Batman Forever, Bruce gets therapy and is effectively cured at the end. I don't think this was a coincidence. Burton was involved with Batman Forever more than you think.

Uh... no I think you're reading way more into it than whats actually there. Batman Forever is a semi-sequel with a "vague" history.... t:

 

[Superwoman Prime]

This pic is makin me horny. god i love this film.

Definitive Catwoman.

 

[mystory64]

Definitive Catwoman.

Alright I gotta chime in here, visually hell ya, I totally agree, but character wise... uh, no I think not. A Secretary who gets reborn by cats biting her and then gains superpowers and turns to a life of crime? Not to mention she whoops up on Batman... uh say it again... BATMAN. To quote the film... Catwoman: "How could you? I'm a WOMAN"... and the Bats responds "I'm sorry..."... oh get outta here. It bothered me when I was 13 and it bothers me now.

I think most people mistake Returns' "darkness' with German Expressionism, Oh wow... check this out, I just now took a quick Google to get the exact definition of German Expressionism and look what I found... German Expressionist Film Today

Ambitious adaptations of the style are depicted throughout the contemporary filmography of director Tim Burton. His 1992 film Batman Returns is often cited as a modern attempt to capture the essence of German Expressionism. The angular building designs and severe-looking city squares of Gotham City evoke the loom and menace present in Lang’s Metropolis. One may even notice the link between the evil character of Max Shreck portrayed by Christopher Walken, and Nosferatu's star, Max Schrek.

Burton's influences are most obvious through his fairy tale suburban landscape in Edward Scissorhands . The appearance of the titular Edward Scissorhands none too accidentally reflects the look of Caligari's somnambulist servant. Burton casts a kind of unease in his candy-colored suburb, where the tension is visually unmasked through Edward and his gothic castle perched above the houses. Burton subverts the Caligari nightmare with his own narrative branding, casting the garish “somnambulist” as the hero, and the villagers as the villains.

The familiar look of Caligari's main character can also be seen in the movie "The Crow". With the tight, black outfit, white makeup, and darkened eyes, Brandon Lee's character is obviously a close relative to Burton's film Edward Scissorhands.

If Catwoman had lit Batman on fire and tossed him out a window that would be dark, but Burton's films have a more romatic feel to them, I like them, (except penguin commandos... why corrupt penguins so?) I just want Nolans Catwoman (if it ever happens) to reflect the comic version more than the cat-powered unhappy secretary of Returns...

btw, Michelle Pfeiffer is HOT.

 

[GoogleMe94]

whateva mystory, michelle pfieffer IS catwoman and is the definitive film version of her, end of story. i wipe my ass with the comics, i could care less.

 

[mystory64]

whateva mystory, michelle pfieffer IS catwoman and is the definitive film version of her, end of story. i wipe my ass with the comics, i could care less.

Jeeze, over in the TDK forums all you do is talk up how the comics are the only way to go, great thought provoking comment you got there, Mr. Grow-Up...

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Alright I gotta chime in here, visually hell ya, I totally agree, but character wise... uh, no I think not. A Secretary who gets reborn by cats biting her and then gains superpowers and turns to a life of crime?

What do you perceive as being her superpowers? Physical prowess? Selina already had the capability to do all those flips. Falling out the window and having cats chew on her was what instigated her mental breakdown, so she was better apt at unleashing those abilities to their fullest extent.

Not to mention she whoops up on Batman... uh say it again... BATMAN. To quote the film... Catwoman: "How could you? I'm a WOMAN"... and the Bats responds "I'm sorry..."... oh get outta here. I bothered me when I was 13 and it bothers me now.

Batman displaying sensible manners to women disturbs you? That little trick she pulled always makes me smile.

 

[mystory64]

What do you perceive as being her superpowers? Physical prowess? Selina already had the capability to do all those flips. Falling out the window and having cats chew on her was what instigated her mental breakdown, so she was better apt at unleashing those abilities to their fullest extent.



Batman displaying sensible manners to women disturbs you? That little trick she pulled always makes me smile.

Uh where so you get that from? She was falling all over herself in the beginning of the movie, she portrayed herself as a klutzy waitress with glasses and little self-confidence. She didn't have a mental breakdown, she DIED. The cats brought her back to life, heck, they even touched on this in the god-awful Catwoman movie. But lets say I'm wrong and you're correct, that she had some sort of physical prowess you say... enough to fight Batman? Are you kidding me? No secretary can beat up Batman, not even that broad from the Drew Carey Show, Mimi... no, have to disagree with ya on this one, it's one of those things that made Returns more fantasy to me....

 

[Kevin Roegele]

whateva mystory, michelle pfieffer IS catwoman and is the definitive film version of her, end of story. i wipe my ass with the comics, i could care less.

Possibly the worst thing you could say on these forums.

 

[Victarion]

@GoogleMe94: Yeah, Returns Catwoman and Penguin are the definitive versions for me. If you say it like that, it makes you seem less *******-ish.

Face to Face is awesome. I just saw the vid on the Special Edition dvd a few minutes ago for the first time.

 

[mystory64]

@GoogleMe94: Yeah, Returns Catwoman and Penguin are the definitive versions for me. If you say it like that, it makes you seem less *******-ish.

Face to Face is awesome. I just saw the vid on the Special Edition dvd a few minutes ago for the first time.

yeah, Siouxsie and the Banshees Rocks

 

[Kevin Roegele]

@GoogleMe94: Yeah, Returns Catwoman and Penguin are the definitive versions for me. If you say it like that, it makes you seem less *******-ish.

Exactly.

I think Burton improved Catwoman and the Penguin. I think he elevated those characters. And then, of course, Pfeiffer and DeVito were both superb.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Thought the first post didn't go through. Tired of having to type the same thing multiple times


stupid lag!

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Uh where so you get that from? She was falling all over herself in the beginning of the movie, she portrayed herself as a klutzy waitress with glasses and little self-confidence. She didn't have a mental breakdown, she DIED. The cats brought her back to life, heck, they even touched on this in the god-awful Catwoman movie. But lets say I'm wrong and you're correct, that she had some sort of physical prowess you say... enough to fight Batman? Are you kidding me? No secretary can beat up Batman, not even that broad from the Drew Carey Show, Mimi... no, have to disagree with ya on this one, it's one of those things that made Returns more fantasy to me....

We were talking about Batman Returns, which has absolutely nothing to do with the movie called Catwoman.