The Official Boxing Thread!!! - Part 1

[Doc Samson]

Quit trying to make it seem like Arum has 100% of the blame for the fight not being made when Fraud Mayweather admits to cherry picking his opponents and is equally to blame with all the excuses being made.

He didn't "admit" to anything, he was playing Devil's Advocate. He was basically saying if he cherry picks his opponents, then why do people still pay to watch him fight.

But there's a long list of things Arum and Paq have done in this whole thing, worst of all being Arum's backtracking on the date Paq would be available to fight when Floyd was trying to make it happen before going to jail. At first he said Manny would fight on the date Floyd wanted to fight when he thought he was getting locked up, when it came out that his jail term was delayed, all of a sudden Manny had an injury that would delay his return to the ring. On top of Manny's insistence against drug testing only to say he's willing to do it a whole year after the fact.

 

[Docker2.0]

Agreed Doc. It's amazing how blind people are to Arum and Paq! I honestly believe that both Paq and Mayweather want the fight but the problem is Arum. It also amazes me how Paq seems to only fight the same 3-4 guys but some how Mayweather is the cherry picker.

 

[Iron_Stark]

I'm not blind to anything, I've said it all along Fraud, Pac and Arum are all EQUALLY to blame for the fight not getting made.

Fraud admitted he's a cherry picker, he even suggested that his little sister Adriana to follow his footsteps and not give fans the fights they want to see. Since the Maidana fight was basically made because fans demanded it.

 

[Docker2.0]

You sound like a 2 year old with all the name calling. His name is Floyd Mayweather. You only show your bias(Paq fan and you can deny all your want but your posts say other wise)when you constantly result to name calling. And for someone who says they are all to blame, you clearly only talk about Mayweather. Mayweather always fights in May so why is Arum calling on him to fight in April? Because he knows he doesn't want the fight. And why is he only fighting the same merry go round of the same fighters? Marquez 5?!??! Are you serious!??But yet, that's a viable option.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Here is how I feel on the matter. Floyd honestly didn't think Manny was clean and thus didn't want to risk his 0. Arum wanted no part of Floyd whooping Manny. Does anyone who isn't a huge Manny fanboy or Floyd hater really believe that at anytime in the last 5 years Pacman had a legit chance at beating Floyd? Floyd is bigger, stronger, and a much better boxer. His hand speed, movement and length would kill Manny. Wouldn't get inside... ever.

The reason why Arum is "willing" to make the fight now is because he wants to cash out on Manny.

Mayweather is to blame to an extent like him cherry picking his last few opponents bar Canelo Alvarez but Arum is the devil in all of this.

Floyd fights the best guys at 140/147. I don't understand the "cherry picking" comments post Baldomir. His only not so great opponent was a done Shane. He has no obligation to fight the best at 154 or 160. It would be stupid to. He is a small 147.

 

[Fallen Angel]

it's all about the timing with Floyd choosing the fights. When he picks them can you honestly tell me they're the best in the division currently. If Floyd fights Pacman now it's going to be a joke. It should've happend 4 years ago. Robbert Guerrero, Victor Ortiz they're were better fights out there at the time. Look I think Floyd is awesome fighter and I'm no hater heck I'd fancy him to beat Pacman then and now it's that 4 years ago Pacman would've had a big chance to beat him and it would be a much bigger fight than it is now.

Now he's hinting at Amir Khan when he can fight:
Bradley
Maidana
Danny Garcia
Cotto 2 ( because he looks reinvigorated)

 

[DarthSkywalker]

it's all about the timing with Floyd choosing the fights. When he picks them can you honestly tell me they're the best in the division currently. If Floyd fights Pacman now it's going to be a joke. It should've happend 4 years ago. Robbert Guerrero, Victor Ortiz they're were better fights out there at the time. Look I think Floyd is awesome fighter and I'm no hater heck I'd fancy him to beat Pacman then and now it's that 4 years ago Pacman would've had a big chance to beat him and it would be a much bigger fight than it is now.

Now he's hinting at Amir Khan when he can fight:
Bradley
Maidana
Danny Garcia
Cotto 2 ( because he looks reinvigorated)

But if he doesn't fight Manny, it is a joke as well...

And that is the rub. If Floyd fights and whoops Bradley, he will get no credit. "Manny" already did it. If he fights and beats Maidana, he'll get no credit. Maidana is the guy that lost to Khan after all. He'll get about two seconds of credit for fighting and beating Danny, but then we will here about how small Danny is.

Cotto 2 is ridiculous, and I love Cotto. He looked "reinvigorated" against an honest to God cherry picked opponent who was there to make him look good. His chance was the first fight. He looked the best he had since the first Margarito fight. If they go again, Floyd might start a little early and finish him this time.

In terms of Floyd cons, nothing will ever be able to top Canelo. Who knew Canelo had no chance, but he made so many think he did. He made Canelo think he could. Legitimately, Khan has a better shot then Canelo ever did.

 

[Docker2.0]

But if he doesn't fight Manny, it is a joke as well...

And that is the rub. If Floyd fights and whoops Bradley, he will get no credit. "Manny" already did it. If he fights and beats Maidana, he'll get no credit. Maidana is the guy that lost to Khan after all. He'll get about two seconds of credit for fighting and beating Danny, but then we will here about how small Danny is.

Cotto 2 is ridiculous, and I love Cotto. He looked "reinvigorated" against an honest to God cherry picked opponent who was there to make him look good. His chance was the first fight. He looked the best he had since the first Margarito fight. If they go again, Floyd might start a little early and finish him this time.

In terms of Floyd cons, nothing will ever be able to top Canelo. Who knew Canelo had no chance, but he made so many think he did. He made Canelo think he could. Legitimately, Khan has a better shot then Canelo ever did.

Spot. On. Anyone who believes that crap about Mayweather not wanting to lose that 0 doesn't know boxing. He wants nothing to do with Arum and if someone owed me millions, I don't blame him. Mayweather, Delahoya, both tried to warn Manny and its why neither guy can stand him but look at Manny's situation now and it egins to become clear as day what really happened.

Ps- you will now be labeled a Paq hater simply for trying to stay neutral. There seems to be only two opinions that are allowed: either you are for or against Manny.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Spot. On. Anyone who believes that crap about Mayweather not wanting to lose that 0 doesn't know boxing. He wants nothing to do with Arum and if someone owed me millions, I don't blame him. Mayweather, Delahoya, both tried to warn Manny and its why neither guy can stand him but loom at Manny's situation now and it begins to become clear as day what really happened.

Ps- you will now be labeled a Paq hater simply for trying to stay neutral. There seems to be only two opinions that are allowed: either you are for or against Manny.

Floyd cares about "0". He most certainly values it. But I also think that Floyd isn't "afraid" to lose in what he believes would be a legitimate manner. If he a guy the believed was clean beat him, I'd think he'd accept it. I know Manny's fans like to ignore the mysterious power he seemed to carry up the division.

They like to ignore Alex Ariza being in his camp. All those late fight leg cramps. Just look at Ariza. There is a reason Freddie Roach tried to get rid of him for so long. Why Victor Conte calls him out all the time. Why Rios just pissed hot for a stimulant.

By the way, Ariza's defense for Rios pissing hot is hilarious. Saying he didn't fail any of the VADA test earlier in the camp. He doesn't seem to know that out of competition testing doesn't test for stimulants, but that in comp testing, in this case fight night, does test for stimulants.

But with Manny, there are too many reason for him to say no. Not wanting to lose his "0" simply contributes. The situation with Arum is ridiculous. Arum is a horrible man, Don King at his most malevolent horrible. There is a reason Floyd escaped and there is a reason why Manny is going to be another Tyson in terms of finances after his boxing career is done.

Manny's money troubles are not a secret. He isn't Floyd, he doesn't have tens of millions upon tens of millions in the bank. Floyd's IRS problems, while embarrassing, he has had no trouble fixing. Manny doesn't have that kind of money laying around. Not with Arum and his "friends and family".

 

[DarthSkywalker]

On the subject from earlier.

My Fight of the Year would be between "Garcia vs. Matthysse"
and "Bradley vs. Provodnikov"

My Moment of the Year is definitely Maidana vs. Broner. Love it.

KO and Upset of of the Year goes to Jhonny Gonzales for annihilating Abner Mares. Still shocking when I see it.

My Fighter of the Year is between Floyd and GGG. Not sure which yet.

And here are 5 fights I want to see next year-
Gennady Golovkin vs. Sergio Martinez: So the Middleweight title can be taken out of limbo. Sergio was great, but I think it is time for the division to move on.

Miguel Cotto vs. Saul Alvarez: Because I really think Cotto could still whoop him and then we can end that hype train.

Erislandy Lara vs. Anyone Relevant: The man deserves it.

Danny Garcia vs. Lucas Matthysse 2: I want to know what happens if Matthysse's eye doesn't seemingly blow up for no reason.

Tim Bradley vs. Ruslan Provodnikov 2: Because a fight like this deserves a sequel.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Lara is a tricky S.O.B for anyone in an around 154lb division. avoided like the plague.




Miguel Cotto V Sergio Martinez is close to being competed for May apparently.

http://http://www.badlefthook.com/2...-fight-is-very-close-hbo-top-rank-boxing-news

 

[Docker2.0]

On the subject from earlier.

My Fight of the Year would be between "Garcia vs. Matthysse"
and "Bradley vs. Provodnikov"

My Moment of the Year is definitely Maidana vs. Broner. Love it.

KO and Upset of of the Year goes to Jhonny Gonzales for annihilating Abner Mares. Still shocking when I see it.

My Fighter of the Year is between Floyd and GGG. Not sure which yet.

And here are 5 fights I want to see next year-
Gennady Golovkin vs. Sergio Martinez: So the Middleweight title can be taken out of limbo. Sergio was great, but I think it is time for the division to move on.

Miguel Cotto vs. Saul Alvarez: Because I really think Cotto could still whoop him and then we can end that hype train.

Erislandy Lara vs. Anyone Relevant: The man deserves it.

Danny Garcia vs. Lucas Matthysse 2: I want to know what happens if Matthysse's eye doesn't seemingly blow up for no reason.

Tim Bradley vs. Ruslan Provodnikov 2: Because a fight like this deserves a sequel.

Agree with everything you said except fighter of the year. Has to go to Mayweather or quite possibly Danny Garcia. I'd give the edge to Money May because he beat Canelo, which quite honestly I didn't think he would. Danny fought Zab Judah and Matthysee in both memorable performances. Not doubting GGG but he hasn't fought anyone and even though he beat Stevenson, I think he really got exposed. I used to think he'd destroy Sergio but quite honestly, he's looking more and more like a bigger Matthysae. Once he gets in the ring with a boxer, I think he's going to get embarrassed.

 

[Docker2.0]

Lara is a tricky S.O.B for anyone in an around 154lb division. avoided like the plague.




Miguel Cotto V Sergio Martinez is close to being competed for May apparently.

http://http://www.badlefthook.com/2...-fight-is-very-close-hbo-top-rank-boxing-news

I love Cotto but man he's about to get destroyed. People are judging Sergio off of his last fight that he rushed back from a broken hand and a torn up knee and expected the same Sergio. I think when he's fully recovered, he's going to surprise everyone.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Lara is a tricky S.O.B for anyone in an around 154lb division. avoided like the plague.




Miguel Cotto V Sergio Martinez is close to being competed for May apparently.

http://http://www.badlefthook.com/2...-fight-is-very-close-hbo-top-rank-boxing-news

I have liked Cotto vs. Martinez if it is the swan song for Sergio. I can understand why Sergio doesn't want to fight GGG if he is on his way out. I also like Cotto's chances, though the size advantage would probably decide it considering Cotto is a small 154.

Agree with everything you said except fighter of the year. Has to go to Mayweather or quite possibly Danny Garcia. I'd give the edge to Money May because he beat Canelo, which quite honestly I didn't think he would. Danny fought Zab Judah and Matthysee in both memorable performances. Not doubting GGG but he hasn't fought anyone and even though he beat Stevenson, I think he really got exposed. I used to think he'd destroy Sergio but quite honestly, he's looking more and more like a bigger Matthysae. Once he gets in the ring with a boxer, I think he's going to get embarrassed.

Danny struggling with Zab was a mark against Danny imo. Judah is not any good anymore.

Don't agree on GGG vs. Sergio. I adore Sergio, but he has lost so much movement and stamina. He messes his legs up every fight now. He is all but done. If he fought GGG, I expect GGG to finish him in the middle rounds.

 

[Fallen Angel]

The thing I don't get though is that Cotto seemingly wants to move up to Middleweight because I doubt Martinez is coming down at his age. Catchweight perhaps?

Golovkin would be bad news for Martinez but I don;t see that fight happening unfortunately as Sergio probably retire in a couple of fights anyway. he's coming to the end and that fight would be career suicide now.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The thing I don't get though is that Cotto seemingly wants to move up to Middleweight because I doubt Martinez is coming down at his age. Catchweight perhaps?

Golovkin would be bad news for Martinez but I don;t see that fight happening unfortunately as Sergio probably retire in a couple of fights anyway. he's coming to the end and that fight would be career suicide now.

Catchweight makes sense, though I could see Cotto just saying "F'it". It would be a shot at the legitimate Middleweight title. If Sergio is as creaky as he was against Murray, I like Cotto's chances. Especially if he is able to cut off the ring and land his lefts to the body.

And I agree he wants no part of GGG, and I don't blame him. I think he would be a sitting duck for GGG at this stage.

 

[Docker2.0]

Did you guys watch the GGG/Stevens fight? He hit GGG at will. If he gets in the ring with a true boxer, he may get knocked out, see Donaire/Rigo and yes that is the appropriate comparison. Sorry peeps, I like GGG but dude is all hype and mostly a brawler with ko power.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Did you guys watch the GGG/Stevens fight? He hit GGG at will. If he gets in the ring with a true boxer, he may get knocked out, see Donaire/Rigo and yes that is the appropriate comparison. Sorry peeps, I like GGG but dude is all hype and mostly a brawler with ko power.

I have watched the GGG/Stevens fight twice, and I don't agree that Stevens hit him at will. Not at all. I did see Stevens beaten into submission however.

And how is GGG all hype? He hits like a truck, knows how to mix up his punches, has a good gas tank, knows how to cut off the ring and has a very solid chin. That isn't hype. I am not saying he is anything he isn't. I know his limitations and I don't think they matter against Sergio at this point.

I'd might have thought twice if we were talking about Sergio 3 or 4 years ago, but Sergio arguably lost to Martin Murray in his last fight. I mean come on, Martin Murray. Sergio is all but done at this point, and while GGG might be limited, he isn't Jeff Lacy. And neither is Lucas Matthysse.

Now I wouldn't advise GGG move up and fight Ward. That would be stupid and an easy night for Ward imo.

 

[Docker2.0]

Stevens hit him when he let his hands go. Now true enough, GGG hit so hard, Stevens was afraid to throw but when he did, G got hit. Against a good boxer with a chin, I say he gets beat pretty easily. It's why I'm not counting out Sergio, I also say Ward beats him and from my understanding, when he spars with Canelo, its neck and neck. I'd bet anything that if Top Rank and GBP ended their feud, I'd bet anything that Lara beats him easily.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Stevens hit him when he let his hands go. Now true enough, GGG hit so hard, Stevens was afraid to throw but when he did, G got hit. Against a good boxer with a chin, I say he gets beat pretty easily. It's why I'm not counting out Sergio, I also say Ward beats him and from my understanding, when he spars with Canelo, its neck and neck. I'd bet anything that if Top Rank and GBP ended their feud, I'd bet anything that Lara beats him easily.

If these stats are correct-

http://compuboxonline.com/throwdownfantasy-com-stats-golovkin-ko-8-stevens/

Stevens threw 300 punches, and landed less then 100. GGG threw nearly 800 punches. Not enough openings for you? t:

Lara is fantastic. He can beat anyone other then Floyd at 154 and 160. Of course Ward would beat him. He is incredible and much, much bigger.

But the idea that any "good boxer" with a "good chin" stands up against that kind of power is a huge jump imo. GGG doesn't have normal power. Sergio had trouble finding Macklin. Lost plenty of rounds to him. Needed a late stoppage. What did GGG do to Macklin? Used his movement to cut off the ring and destroyed Macklin. Macklin couldn't escape.

If slow and horrible JCC jr. could find Sergio, GGG would find Sergio.

 

[Docker2.0]

Well Sergio was going for the knock out against a cruiserweight. He made it known that he was going for a ko no matter what. As far as compubox goes, I don't trust it at all after the Bradley/Paq fight and even posted a video a few pages back showing how false it is. Again with Stevens and GGG, when he threw his punches, he hit him. He had his moments. Did he get beat? Yes, but I really do think GGG got exposed. His defense is not that great. He really reminds me of Donaire.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Donaire doesn't hit that hard. He also has a huge amount of flaws that GGG doesn't. Like his inability to break an opponent down or cut the ring off. Plus he is clearly shook.

Using your theory, everyone is overrated and can be "exposed". Even Floyd. Fighters have their skills, they are what they are. If I was saying GGG was something he isn't, I'd understand. But I feel like I am honest about his skill set and what he can do. I think he beats the vast majority at 154 and 160. And why even bring up Ward? Of course he loses to him. Ward is a great. He also fights a higher weight class.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Ward will move up to Light Heavy anyway eventually and he's got tests against Kovalev and Adonis Stevenson. Which I think will be big tests for him but expect him to deal with both of them. If he fights Kovalev that's gonig to be awesome fight.

Golovkin will eventually move up to Super Middleweight but not after cleaning up the Middleweight division.

 

[Docker2.0]

Donaire is the perfect comparison to GGG because of his one punch power until he got into the ring with Rigo. Name me one good fighter other than Stevens(who's decent)that GGG has fought. He hasn't fought anyone yet. And I don't buy this "everyone is afraid to fight him" bs either. Again, he's good but he's a smaller Dontay Wilder, just unproven.

 

[Docker2.0]

Didn't Froch call out GGG?