The Official Boxing Thread!!! - Part 2

[Docker2.0]

This is just not true. Manny used to be a glorified brawler, but a glorified brawler doesn't move the way he does or throws from those angles that he does. He are trying to hard, which is exactly why you are called a Floyd fanboy.


Yep. When he sits back, it is so obvious. Still has fantastic defense and head movement, which makes up for it. He is so skilled.

Sorry bro, we agree to disagree. Manny hasn't fought any top level competition since he got off the juice and when he did, he got KTFO. There's a reason he has been protected and given fights like Chris Algeri and Brandon Rios. And call me a Flomo all you want, it just proves my point: whenever someone brings up a point, whether it's for Manny or for Floyd, they are accused of being a Pactard or Flomo. Again, I think outside of the ring, they are both scumbags........Manny may even be worse because of the things he has done. At least Floyd is straight up with who he is. But for some reason, the media is portraying Manny as some hero despite having a child with a filipina hooker and numerous animal abuse ongoings in the Philippines.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Alcohol bro! But yeah, I do think Floyd is going to have to knock Manny out because I think if it goes 12 rounds, it's going to either be a draw or Manny winning by controversial decision.

Which is why I would have preferred this fight a few years back.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Sorry bro, we agree to disagree. Manny hasn't fought any top level competition since he got off the juice and when he did, he got KTFO. There's a reason he has been protected and given fights like Chris Algeri and Brandon Rios. And call me a Flomo all you want, it just proves my point: whenever someone brings up a point, whether it's for Manny or for Floyd, they are accused of being a Pactard or Flomo. Again, I think outside of the ring, they are both scumbags........Manny may even be worse because of the things he has done. At least Floyd is straight up with who he is. But for some reason, the media is portraying Manny as some hero despite having a child with a filipina hooker and numerous animal abuse ongoings in the Philippines.

The juice doesn't give you hand speed. It doesn't create those angles. It doesn't have you fight life and death with three of the greatest boxers in history.

And you are a Floyd fanboy. I am a fan of both guys, but prefer Floyd as a fighter. But I don't let that get in the way of my understanding of boxing. You have spent half your time trying to discredit an all time great, and future hall of famer. You make it too obvious.

 

[Docker2.0]

The juice doesn't give you hand speed. It doesn't create those angles. It doesn't have you fight life and death with three of the greatest boxers in history.

And you are a Floyd fanboy. I am a fan of both guys, but prefer Floyd as a fighter. But I don't let that get in the way of my understanding of boxing. You have spent half your time trying to discredit an all time great, and future hall of famer. You make it too obvious.

Yep! I'm a Flomo! So be it! I just stated why I'd rather support Floyd but it's cool. Floyd has served time for beating women, deservingly so. But Manny has all kind of chicken fights in the PI, has a baby out of wedlock, has a serious gambling problem but yet is a people's hero. I'd rather deal with a thief who tells me straight up he's a thief than a dude that I find in my house stealing my tv after he tells me he's a priest. I actually like Manny, just think that he's dumb by letting Top Rank take advantage of him but find myself siding more with Floyd because people tend to make Floyd look like the devil when they both are flawed humans, Manny even more so than Floyd but the media tends to pump Manny up as a hero for some reason.

Anyway, we agree to disagree. We will see come May 2nd. You win this debate. I give up. I'm done for tonight. Insult me as much as you like.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Whoa chill guy's we're all bud's here.

We all have our favourites but we can acknowledge other great fighters which these two are no doubt are.

 

[Docker2.0]

Whoa chill guy's we're all bud's here.

We all have our favourites but we can acknowledge other great fighters which these two are no doubt are.

That's the thing: I like Floyd as a boxer but can't stand dude as a person but yet find myself defending him because people try their darndest to discredit dude. Saying he's a cherry picker when he has fought Maidana and Canelo when Manny has fought Rios and Algeri and JMM a thousand times is pure hypocrisy. But it is what it is. Floyd plays the villain role so well that people pay to see him lose. It's just life.

 

[Fallen Angel]

They both cherry picked fighters it's what the current generation and the generation before them do or did. Which both these fighters are part of. Ideally this fight would've happened circa 2011 but rarely nowadays's with the money involved do the best fighters actually fight the best when both are near the top of their game.

Floyd wouldn't risk his perfect record any joker can see that especially when he's nearing the end. he startd cherry picking after the Hatton fight IMO but that's the name of the boxing "business" game.

 

[Docker2.0]

They both cherry picked fighters it's what the current generation and the generation before them do or did. Which both these fighters are part of. Ideally this fight would've happened circa 2011 but rarely nowadays's with the money involved do the best fighters actually fight the best when both are near the top of their game.

Floyd wouldn't risk his perfect record any joker can see that especially when he's nearing the end. he startd cherry picking after the Hatton fight IMO but that's the name of the boxing "business" game.

Agree 1000%! There's not but about it. As much as I'd love for him to fight Thurman, I just don't see it happening. Just like I don't see Manny fighting Danny Garcia or Thurman or Canelo. They are both setting themselves up for retirement and I can't blame them.

 

[Doc Samson]

Because when he started landing late, it was great. He just started way too late.

That said it all.

Not at all. He was moving but still outpointing him with his jab. Garcia wasn't hitting him at all during the early rounds, so if you're saying he wasn't busy enough then how was Danny? Because he was swinging at air?

Both men have lost stanima. Floyd has lost more foot speed, which is why he has started standing and trading more in the pocket. He is so good with the shoulder roll he makes it work, but he doesn't do it on purpose. It is also why against someone like Canelo he flat out ran at times.

No offense, but when people say this, it's one of the most ridiculous, revisionist history criticisms I've ever heard. Floyd has NEVER, I repeat, NEVER, been this runner that people have made him out to be. Against De La Hoya, early on, he was on his bike. It was the biggest fight of his life at that point and Oscar was damn near 160 pounds.

Against Maidana the second time he used more movement to show how easily he could beat him, but other than that, he's never been a guy that moved or "ran" that much in the ring. He's always been in the pocket and countering, this is factual. It's the whole reason he uses the shoulder roll in the first place, so that he can counter while still in range. It's aggravating because in every telecast they say the same thing "it's surprising how much Floyd is standing right in front of him" failing to realize they been saying the same thing since 2007. Before that, when he was younger, he wouldn't do anything but trade with people, and stand right there to do it.

As to counter punchers, JMM and Floyd are very different in that regard. Yes, they are both counter punchers, but do it very differently. And comparisons to Maidana are useless, because Manny moves faster. A lot faster. Floyd hasn't wanted this fight because Manny is different. He has never fought anyone like him before, and that is a problem with Floyd. JMM is the best boxer he ever fought, but he was also not ready for the weightclass and the perfect style matchup for Floyd. This will be different and will most certainly not be easy.

You also can't be serious with this. JMM is the best boxer Manny has ever fought, along with Morales (who he lost too as well) and it's exactly why he's had trouble with him and should've lost damn near all their fights.

There's no universe or planet though where JMM is a better overall boxer than De La Hoya, Cotto or Mosley, and I don't care at what point in their careers they fought Floyd. That's just blasphemy. I'm not so sure he was ever better than Castillo either, it's close.

Weight also had nothing to do with JMM's fight with Floyd, he just went up against someone who does what he does much better. That was after a year and half layoff Floyd took that fight, and he barely got touched.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yep! I'm a Flomo! So be it! I just stated why I'd rather support Floyd but it's cool. Floyd has served time for beating women, deservingly so. But Manny has all kind of chicken fights in the PI, has a baby out of wedlock, has a serious gambling problem but yet is a people's hero. I'd rather deal with a thief who tells me straight up he's a thief than a dude that I find in my house stealing my tv after he tells me he's a priest. I actually like Manny, just think that he's dumb by letting Top Rank take advantage of him but find myself siding more with Floyd because people tend to make Floyd look like the devil when they both are flawed humans, Manny even more so than Floyd but the media tends to pump Manny up as a hero for some reason.

Anyway, we agree to disagree. We will see come May 2nd. You win this debate. I give up. I'm done for tonight. Insult me as much as you like.

I don't care who they have sex with. I think Manny's gambling and relationship with Arum is going to leave him broker then Tyson, but that is his business. I do care that Floyd goes around beating women and being an all around sexist pig, but that has nothing to do with our conversation. Do I think Manny is overrated? Yes. He is still a great, great boxer.

You just go out of your way to crap on Manny, and it is so unnecessary. You can think Floyd is going to win, hell think he is going to win easily. That is more then fair. But you spend way too much time insulting Manny.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Not at all. He was moving but still outpointing him with his jab. Garcia wasn't hitting him at all during the early rounds, so if you're saying he wasn't busy enough then how was Danny? Because he was swinging at air?

Considering the punch stats, which Danny won, and how many punches Peterson landed in the second half of the fight, Danny clearly landed plenty early. I know the stats aren't perfect, but they aren't complete crap.

No offense, but when people say this, it's one of the most ridiculous, revisionist history criticisms I've ever heard. Floyd has NEVER, I repeat, NEVER, been this runner that people have made him out to be. Against De La Hoya, early on, he was on his bike. It was the biggest fight of his life at that point and Oscar was damn near 160 pounds.

Against Maidana the second time he used more movement to show how easily he could beat him, but other than that, he's never been a guy that moved or "ran" that much in the ring. He's always been in the pocket and countering, this is factual. It's the whole reason he uses the shoulder roll in the first place, so that he can counter while still in range. It's aggravating because in every telecast they say the same thing "it's surprising how much Floyd is standing right in front of him" failing to realize they been saying the same thing since 2007. Before that, when he was younger, he wouldn't do anything but trade with people, and stand right there to do it.

I never said Floyd ran. Floyd has always set his feet and threw when he needed to. It is how he stops attacks. His straight right stopped Canelo in his tracks, and he was much bigger. When he was in the lower weights he blast people.

Floyd use to be all about the beautiful footwork, now he is way more about the upper body movement, and making people miss with it. Over the last few years, he fought back to the ropes a lot more. He will spend rounds laying on them, looking for a blow. It is like watching the difference between Ali before and after the suspension.

You also can't be serious with this. JMM is the best boxer Manny has ever fought, along with Morales (who he lost too as well) and it's exactly why he's had trouble with him and should've lost damn near all their fights.

There's no universe or planet though where JMM is a better overall boxer than De La Hoya, Cotto or Mosley, and I don't care at what point in their careers they fought Floyd. That's just blasphemy. I'm not so sure he was ever better than Castillo either, it's close.

Weight also had nothing to do with JMM's fight with Floyd, he just went up against someone who does what he does much better. That was after a year and half layoff Floyd took that fight, and he barely got touched.

Yes, I believe JMM is the best Manny ever fought. I say this as a Morales fanboy. Morales was a boss, and he was probably over the hill when Manny beat the hell out of him. But you can't get pistol whipped like that, and have bragging rights. I don't even know why you mention Oscar and Molsey when both were clearly done when they fought Manny. They were so bad at that point, it hurt.

JMM took on the best version of Manny and arguably beat him 3 times. I would say he definitely beat him in the third fight, and we all saw what he did in their last encounter.

JMM was never going to beat Floyd, the style match up was bad for him. Floyd is like a bigger, better version of him. JMM having to be the aggressor against the best counter fighter maybe in boxing history was never going to work. That being said, JMM came in fat. He moved up for the money, he didn't legit put on the weight.

I am curious how you rank Oscar over JMM as an all timer. Oscar lost all his big fights except for the one with Vargas. Floyd beat him, Trindad beat him, Mosley beat him, Hopkins beat him, Manny beat him. The same really applies to Cotto, who I love. Cotto's biggest win was against Shane. His two other big wins came against a guy with one eye and a dude with no legs. He lost to Trout for Godsake.

 

[Docker2.0]

I don't care who they have sex with. I think Manny's gambling and relationship with Arum is going to leave him broker then Tyson, but that is his business. I do care that Floyd goes around beating women and being an all around sexist pig, but that has nothing to do with our conversation. Do I think Manny is overrated? Yes. He is still a great, great boxer.

You just go out of your way to crap on Manny, and it is so unnecessary. You can think Floyd is going to win, hell think he is going to win easily. That is more then fair. But you spend way too much time insulting Manny.

Please tell me how I insulted Manny. I said I give him a puncher's chance in this fight as does most people. Just because I don't see this fight being competitive at all(as most people don't once Floyd figures him out)doesn't mean I'm biased. Manny has fought inferior competition the past couple of years and that's a fact. How does he get a pass for fighting Rios and Algeria when if that was Floyd he would have been blasted?! And I can't state enough, I actually do like both guys but I think that Manny gets a pass for whatever reason despite being constantly surrounded by smoke. Floyd's past is constantly being brought up to the media while you don't hear much about Manny's past at all.
But we agree to disagree. You won this argument. We will see May 2nd because I can't change your mind and you can't change mine. *shakes hand and walks away*

 

[Docker2.0]

Not at all. He was moving but still outpointing him with his jab. Garcia wasn't hitting him at all during the early rounds, so if you're saying he wasn't busy enough then how was Danny? Because he was swinging at air?



No offense, but when people say this, it's one of the most ridiculous, revisionist history criticisms I've ever heard. Floyd has NEVER, I repeat, NEVER, been this runner that people have made him out to be. Against De La Hoya, early on, he was on his bike. It was the biggest fight of his life at that point and Oscar was damn near 160 pounds.

Against Maidana the second time he used more movement to show how easily he could beat him, but other than that, he's never been a guy that moved or "ran" that much in the ring. He's always been in the pocket and countering, this is factual. It's the whole reason he uses the shoulder roll in the first place, so that he can counter while still in range. It's aggravating because in every telecast they say the same thing "it's surprising how much Floyd is standing right in front of him" failing to realize they been saying the same thing since 2007. Before that, when he was younger, he wouldn't do anything but trade with people, and stand right there to do it.



You also can't be serious with this. JMM is the best boxer Manny has ever fought, along with Morales (who he lost too as well) and it's exactly why he's had trouble with him and should've lost damn near all their fights.

There's no universe or planet though where JMM is a better overall boxer than De La Hoya, Cotto or Mosley, and I don't care at what point in their careers they fought Floyd. That's just blasphemy. I'm not so sure he was ever better than Castillo either, it's close.

Weight also had nothing to do with JMM's fight with Floyd, he just went up against someone who does what he does much better. That was after a year and half layoff Floyd took that fight, and he barely got touched.

Agreed on all points. I'd really love for Manny to get a shot at Canelo or Maidana and see if he could handle those guys(honestly don't think he could)because he really is a protected fighter. It's not his fault, I guess it's smart management. I'd love for him to fight a Thurman, Garcia, heck even a Broner. People are calling for Floyd to fight GGG who will outweigh him on fight night at about 20 lbs but when it comes to Manny, he's to big. It kills me!!

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Please tell me how I insulted Manny. I said I give him a puncher's chance in this fight as does most people. Just because I don't see this fight being competitive at all(as most people don't once Floyd figures him out)doesn't mean I'm biased. Manny has fought inferior competition the past couple of years and that's a fact. How does he get a pass for fighting Rios and Algeria when if that was Floyd he would have been blasted?! And I can't state enough, I actually do like both guys but I think that Manny gets a pass for whatever reason despite being constantly surrounded by smoke. Floyd's past is constantly being brought up to the media while you don't hear much about Manny's past at all.
But we agree to disagree. You won this argument. We will see May 2nd because I can't change your mind and you can't change mine. *shakes hand and walks away*

You bring up all the personal stuff and called Manny a glorified brawler. Do you not read your own post?

And why are you crying about unfair treatment to Floyd? Stop arguing with people who aren't here. You are not talking to the whole of the internet. I complained about Manny fighting no-hopers to. I defend the quality of a lot of Floyd's opponents.

But lets not get into who fought more great guys. Because Manny fought and beat Marquez, Morales and Barrera.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Agreed on all points. I'd really love for Manny to get a shot at Canelo or Maidana and see if he could handle those guys(honestly don't think he could)because he really is a protected fighter. It's not his fault, I guess it's smart management. I'd love for him to fight a Thurman, Garcia, heck even a Broner. People are calling for Floyd to fight GGG who will outweigh him on fight night at about 20 lbs but when it comes to Manny, he's to big. It kills me!!

Lets not forget that Manny beat the hell out of the cheater Margarito. The guy Floyd legitimately ran from. And Floyd also ducked Cotto for years and refused to fight Paul Williams.

 

[Docker2.0]

Lets not forget that Manny beat the hell out of the cheater Margarito. The guy Floyd legitimately ran from. And Floyd also ducked Cotto for years and refused to fight Paul Williams.

Why didn't Manny fight Paul Williams? And it's a good thing Floyd didn't fight Margarito because he's a proven cheat.

Dude we agree to disagree. You won. Why beat a dead horse? You are not going to change my mind just like I won't change yours. Take the UD.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Why didn't Manny fight Paul Williams? And it's a good thing Floyd didn't fight Margarito because he's a proven cheat.

Dude we agree to disagree. You won. Why beat a dead horse? You are not going to change my mind just like I won't change yours. Take the UD.

Manny moved up a bit later then Floyd, so the Williams fight wasn't exactly on the the table long before the unfortunate accident. Floyd could of had the fight for a couple of years. Didn't like the style match up.

Also that is a really lame excuse when it comes to Floyd. He didn't know anything about the gloves, he just feared not being able to keep Margarito off him.

And I am not trying to change your mind. I am putting out what actually happened. You continue to diss Manny for no reason. I am righting the wrong. I do the same with Iron Stark and Floyd. It is funny, because you are both what you claim the other to be.

 

[Docker2.0]

Manny moved up a bit later then Floyd, so the Williams fight wasn't exactly on the the table long before the unfortunate accident. Floyd could of had the fight for a couple of years. Didn't like the style match up.

Also that is a really lame excuse when it comes to Floyd. He didn't know anything about the gloves, he just feared not being able to keep Margarito off him.

And I am not trying to change your mind. I am putting out what actually happened. You continue to diss Manny for no reason. I am righting the wrong. I do the same with Iron Stark and Floyd. It is funny, because you are both what you claim the other to be.

Agents of SHIELD is a great show!!

 

[killface]

i just hope the floyd-manny fight is as entertaining and as much of a slugfest as the darth-docker word joust.

 

[Doc Samson]

I am curious how you rank Oscar over JMM as an all timer. Oscar lost all his big fights except for the one with Vargas. Floyd beat him, Trindad beat him, Mosley beat him, Hopkins beat him, Manny beat him. The same really applies to Cotto, who I love. Cotto's biggest win was against Shane. His two other big wins came against a guy with one eye and a dude with no legs. He lost to Trout for Godsake.

I rank Oscar that high because he faced pretty much everyone of his era besides Roy Jones, one of the biggest legends of the previous era, the legends of the present era, and almost everyone in between. He has one of the best resumes', as far as who he faced, in boxing history.

There's no shame in losing to fellow HOF's like Hopkins or Mosley. That first Mosley fight could've went either way and I think Oscar won the second. And I also think he was robbed against Trinidad, clearly. IMO, Manny, Floyd & Hopkins are the only guys to truly beat him.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I rank Oscar that high because he faced pretty much everyone of his era besides Roy Jones, one of the biggest legends of the previous era, the legends of the present era, and almost everyone in between. He has one of the best resumes', as far as who he faced, in boxing history.

There's no shame in losing to fellow HOF's like Hopkins or Mosley. That first Mosley fight could've went either way and I think Oscar won the second. And I also think he was robbed against Trinidad, clearly. IMO, Manny, Floyd & Hopkins are the only guys to truly beat him.

There is no shame in losing to great fighters. The problem is Oscar never beat anyone. His big wins were against guys years out of their prime and Vargas, who wasn't that good. And while I am all for debating the outcomes of fights, Oscar was gifted his fair share. Dude lost to Sturm.

 

[Assassin32]

I feel like people forget all the quality names De La Hoya destroyed as a lightweight. Rafael Rules, Genaro Hernandez, and Jorge Paez were dangerous men, and Oscar blitzed them all. Cut through them like they were nothing. And he was doing this when he was twenty-two and younger. He knocked out Jeff Mayweather in only his fifth professional bout, a month after he had turned twenty. Also, he catches a lot of **** for beating up on an older Chavez, but Chavez was thirty-three years old when they fought and he had a record of 96-1-1. And Oscar moved up in weight to fight him. And Oscar sliced his face to ribbons and stopped him inside of four rounds. I don't know of too many other fighters with a resume that can match even the first half of Oscar's career.

 

[Docker2.0]

I feel like people forget all the quality names De La Hoya destroyed as a lightweight. Rafael Rules, Genaro Hernandez, and Jorge Paez were dangerous men, and Oscar blitzed them all. Cut through them like they were nothing. And he was doing this when he was twenty-two and younger. He knocked out Jeff Mayweather in only his fifth professional bout, a month after he had turned twenty. Also, he catches a lot of **** for beating up on an older Chavez, but Chavez was thirty-three years old when they fought and he had a record of 96-1-1. And Oscar moved up in weight to fight him. And Oscar sliced his face to ribbons and stopped him inside of four rounds. I don't know of too many other fighters with a resume that can match even the first half of Oscar's career.

I can: GGG

 

[Assassin32]

Also, I finally watched the most recent PBC card in its entirety. I felt the draw between Andy Lee and Kid Chocolate was spot on. I'm quick to attack judges when they turn in bad score cards, so I'll go ahead and applaud the job those three did with that fight. Not a bad score among them, and the draw seemed just. In the main event, I thought Peterson roared back to beat Garcia 7-5 (or 115-113). Whatever score you ended up with in that one, there's no denying that Garcia suffered a brutal beating while Peterson emerged virtually unscathed.

 

[Warhammer]

Some of y'all are getting too damn personal in here. A boxer's issues outside the ring don't have s*** to do with us. Just appreciate that the fight is finally happening after 23563 years.