The Official Boxing Thread!!!

[Docker2.0]

I actually didn't mean literally, I meant Pacquio won't fight him because he's not washed up because he has a small chance of beating him. Look at all of Pacquio's last fights! They were all washed up.

 

[Iron_Stark]

I actually didn't mean literally, I meant Pacquio won't fight him because he's not washed up because he has a small chance of beating him. Look at all of Pacquio's last fights! They were all washed up.

Oh please, Floyd's just as bad if not worse than Manny about it. Look at his strech of fights after he got that "win" against Castillo, bum after bum, he beats Hatton (which I'll give him credit for) then he goes on and beats up on short or washed up fighters.

Apart from Hatton from a few years back and Castillo and Coralles from 10 years ago, name some great, in their prime fighters Floyd has beaten recently.

 

[Doc Samson]

Oh please, Floyd's just as bad if not worse than Manny about it. Look at his strech of fights after he got that "win" against Castillo, bum after bum, he beats Hatton (which I'll give him credit for) then he goes on and beats up on short or washed up fighters.

Apart from Hatton from a few years back and Castillo and Coralles from 10 years ago, name some great, in their prime fighters Floyd has beaten recently.

So I guess that'll be your excuse when Floyd beats Pacquiao?

Furthermore, if Floyd's worse, then name the in prime fighters Manny fought since Morales beat him or Marquez who really should have beaten him, twice?

At least Ortiz was young, Hatton was undefeated, & Mosley was coming off a win against the same Margarito your trying to give Manny credit for beating, when Mayweather fought them.

 

[Docker2.0]

Get use to it Doc Samson! I've gotten so use to Iron Stark blatant hate against Mayweather that maybe we should call him Larry Merchant. Eh but seriously, the guy has nothing to say positive about Mayweather but yet doesn't see that Pacquio does the same thing if not worse.

 

[Doc Samson]

Get use to it Doc Samson! I've gotten so use to Iron Stark blatant hate against Mayweather that maybe we should call him Larry Merchant. Eh but seriously, the guy has nothing to say positive about Mayweather but yet doesn't see that Pacquio does the same thing if not worse.

I actually am used to Stark, from other threads, we basically haven't seen eye to eye on anything lol, but at the same time, I can't just let this type of nonsense go on unchecked.

I feel Stark represents a large segment of Pacquiao "fans" who I think just secretly hate Floyd to such an extent that they make themselves love this guy.

NOBODY was a Manny Pacquiao fan 10 years ago, there weren't that many 6 years ago, not here in America. So for people like that to be so vehemently behind this guy is crazy to me. I'm trying to figure it out

 

[Docker2.0]

Well I know when I go to the Philippines, the dude is like a superhero there. Me being the only black guy some of them have ever seen...........they started talking crazy talk about how Pacquio is the greatest ever and he could have challenged Sugar Ray Leonard, Hitman Hearns, and even the great Mike Tyson in (I s*** you not!)and the funny thing is, they were all serious. But I was in their country so I had to listen to all that BS because arguing with them..............I'll just put it this way, you get nowhere fast! The thing about Pacquio is dude has lost 2 fights(4 if you count the 2 that JMM got robbed of)but yet this guy is the greatest fighter today?! And for the record, I actually don't think Pacquio or Mayweather would stand a chance against Sergio Martinez. That dude is a beast!

 

[Doc Samson]

Well I know when I go to the Philippines, the dude is like a superhero there. Me being the only black guy some of them have ever seen...........they started talking crazy talk about how Pacquio is the greatest ever and he could have challenged Sugar Ray Leonard, Hitman Hearns, and even the great Mike Tyson in (I s*** you not!)and the funny thing is, they were all serious. But I was in their country so I had to listen to all that BS because arguing with them..............I'll just put it this way, you get nowhere fast! The thing about Pacquio is dude has lost 2 fights(4 if you count the 2 that JMM got robbed of)but yet this guy is the greatest fighter today?! And for the record, I actually don't think Pacquio or Mayweather would stand a chance against Sergio Martinez. That dude is a beast!

That's my issue. No other fighter in history has risen this fast, at his age, like Pacquiao did. Even discounting his losses, the fact is, within a few years time, this guy's moved all the way up in weight, not losing speed at all, and doing this at a very advanced age as far as fighters are concerned. If Floyd moved up and beat Vitali, they'd riot in the street.

His whole popularity, is linked directly to hatred of Floyd Mayweather, and that's my real point. These people, here in America, act as if they've been fans of this guy the whole time, the way they talk about him lol. He had no amateur career on anyone's radar, 3/4 of his victories came against boxers most Americans can't even name, yet they are so strongly behind him that it can't be anything else but extreme hatred for the other guy. If they would just admit that, I wouldn't have a problem with it...

As far as Martinez though, I wouldn't want either of them to fight him, he's a solid, real middleweight. It's just like how all the naysayers clamoring for Roy Jones to get beat convinced him to go up to heavyweight, and while he was victorious, it ultimately cost him his career if you ask me. Losing 25 pounds of muscle is not easy, and he wasn't the same ever since. I don't think Pacquiao or Mayweather have any business messing around with Middleweights.

 

[Docker2.0]

Maybe if they can trick him to lose weight maybe...................................but anyway, actually I agree with you, which is why Mayweather thinks he's juicing. Dude has put on all that weight and has actually gained speed, not lost, even though he's older and has gained like 20 lbs. I actually can see his point.

 

[Iron_Stark]

Please, I'm hardly a Paquiao fan. I just believe in giving credit where credit is due. Whether Cotto or Margs were past it, at least he fought them something Floyd never did.

As far as knowing about Pac, I've been following his career since he fought on the Tyson/Lewis card.

See I follow boxing and boxers, have been doing that for about as long as I've been an Iron Man fan.

I'm not like Pac fans who just follow him because of where he's from or Floyd fans who just follow him because of the color of his skin.

Like I told you when you tried your hardest to school me on Iron Man, I know my **** about boxing, and I'm rarely wrong on the subject.

 

[Doc Samson]

Please, I'm hardly a Paquiao fan. I just believe in giving credit where credit is due. Whether Cotto or Margs were past it, at least he fought them something Floyd never did.

As far as knowing about Pac, I've been following his career since he fought on the Tyson/Lewis card.

See I follow boxing and boxers, have been doing that for about as long as I've been an Iron Man fan.

I'm not like Pac fans who just follow him because of where he's from or Floyd fans who just follow him because of the color of his skin.

Like I told you when you tried your hardest to school me on Iron Man, I know my **** about boxing, and I'm rarely wrong on the subject.

I never tried to school you on IM, I was just sharing my opinion that I thought the 2nd movie wasn't that good, and my reasons why, and you got all pissy about it. That's just differing opinions though.

But as far as boxing goes, you've been wrong about pretty much everything you've been saying so far. I've followed it too, since I can remember. Not just Floyd, but Leonard, Tyson, Jones jr, Whitaker, alot of guys I've liked over the years. Not once did I hear anybody talking or excited about Pacquiao back then.

Maybe you aren't that type of fan, but you sure come off like it because your only arguments in his favor are criticisms (mostly imagined) about Floyd and his accomplishments, which brings it full circle back to my point from the beginning, that this Manny love is directly a result of Mayweather hate.

 

[Docker2.0]

Stark, I hate to pile on man but dude...................you pretty much are a Mayweather hater. There! I said it!

 

[Iron_Stark]

If anyone actually read Kevin Ioles article a few days ago they'd know Pac gradually put on weight similar to Floyd as the years went by. Guess Floyd's juicing aswell?

As far as Martinez, he's hardly a real middleweight, he's shorter than Margarito and has never weighed 160 in the 3 fights he's had at middle.

Oh and he said he's willing to come down to 150 for a Pac fight, since you know Pac actually had the balls to call him out.

 

[Doc Samson]

If anyone actually read Kevin Ioles article a few days ago they'd know Pac gradually put on weight similar to Floyd as the years went by. Guess Floyd's juicing aswell?

As far as Martinez, he's hardly a real middleweight, he's shorter than Margarito and has never weighed 160 in the 3 fights he's had at middle.

Oh and he said he's willing to come down to 150 for a Pac fight, since you know Pac actually had the balls to call him out.

Lol he's shorter by what? On top of that, he's not washed up like Margarito was, is a quicker man, and has boxing skills, as opposed to the plodding brawlers Manny's used to. So if your using that as a barometer, than I hope you venture back in here if they actually do fight. I think we'd have alot to talk about.

 

[antonydelfini]

Manny is having a hard time agreeing to Floyd's demands cause he feels that Floyd does not have the right to suddenly impose rules on his opponents. The reason the other fighters like Mosley and Ortiz do not have problems with it is because Floyd is a bigger name than they are. Floyd is practically giving them a great opportunity (money) that they won't pass up whatever Floyd's demands are. With Pacman, he feels like he is a bigger draw so he has a harder time agreeing to everything Floyd's says. Actually, agreeing to olympic style blood testing is hard enough for a bigger superstar like Manny, and now he agreed to the no date cut off. I admire the man for swallowing his pride just to fight Floyd. Floyd does not appear as someone who wants to clean up boxing, but a coward and a primadonna. Making up these rules when Manny's name came up his radar. Imagine Ray Leonard imposing all these rules on Duran, Duran might have said f*$# you!

The legendary Marvin Hagler said it best
When asked to talk about his opinions on the match-up if it ever does end up happening sometime soon, Hagler likened it to his match-up with Leonard back in '87. "Here's a guy (Mayweather) who wants to dictate to another person, and wants to tell you what he wants to do... you know... 'I want you to take a drug test' and all these things and whatever, and I think that Pacquiao is right," Hagler said and further added, "Who are you? Who are you? I mean come on. If you want to fight, lets fight. Let's stop all these nonsense. Let's show the people out there; let's give the people out there what they want to see, and they want to see a good fight, and hopefully none of the fighters get hurt. The public is demanding this kind of fight and I think it's great for boxing. With the Pacquiao and Mayweatherfight, I think that Mayweather might be a little scared. But then there’s another thing, and he’s almost looking like a Sugar Ray Leonard in the type of sense where he is dictating all of the time. Hello! If you’re going to fight, let’s fight! Let’s stop all this stuff. Let’s just get it on! I mean that is what boxing is about. So he’s trying to gain more money or whatever. I mean you already made enough money. Do you want to fight the guy? Yes or no? And I think that Pacquiao is saying, ‘Come on! Let’s do it today’. But I wouldn’t wait around for Mayweather. I would take another fight and still make as much money as I can and then leave the game while I’m still on top.

"

 

[Doc Samson]

Manny is having a hard time agreeing to Floyd's demands cause he feels that Floyd does not have the right to suddenly impose rules on his opponents. The reason the other fighters like Mosley and Ortiz do not have problems with it is because Floyd is a bigger name than they are. Floyd is practically giving them a great opportunity (money) that they won't pass up whatever Floyd's demands are. With Pacman, he feels like he is a bigger draw so he has a harder time agreeing to everything Floyd's says. Actually, agreeing to olympic style blood testing is hard enough for a bigger superstar like Manny, and now he agreed to the no date cut off. I admire the man for swallowing his pride just to fight Floyd. Floyd does not appear as someone who wants to clean up boxing, but a coward and a primadonna. Making up these rules when Manny's name came up his radar. Imagine Ray Leonard imposing all these rules on Duran, Duran might have said f*$# you!

The legendary Marvin Hagler said it best
When asked to talk about his opinions on the match-up if it ever does end up happening sometime soon, Hagler likened it to his match-up with Leonard back in '87. "Here's a guy (Mayweather) who wants to dictate to another person, and wants to tell you what he wants to do... you know... 'I want you to take a drug test' and all these things and whatever, and I think that Pacquiao is right," Hagler said and further added, "Who are you? Who are you? I mean come on. If you want to fight, lets fight. Let's stop all these nonsense. Let's show the people out there; let's give the people out there what they want to see, and they want to see a good fight, and hopefully none of the fighters get hurt. The public is demanding this kind of fight and I think it's great for boxing. With the Pacquiao and Mayweatherfight, I think that Mayweather might be a little scared. But then there’s another thing, and he’s almost looking like a Sugar Ray Leonard in the type of sense where he is dictating all of the time. Hello! If you’re going to fight, let’s fight! Let’s stop all this stuff. Let’s just get it on! I mean that is what boxing is about. So he’s trying to gain more money or whatever. I mean you already made enough money. Do you want to fight the guy? Yes or no? And I think that Pacquiao is saying, ‘Come on! Let’s do it today’. But I wouldn’t wait around for Mayweather. I would take another fight and still make as much money as I can and then leave the game while I’m still on top.

"

I hear what your saying, but once again, whatever popularity Pacquiao enjoys in the States is really because of Mayweather and the number of people who actually think he can beat him. Manny was never a guy on most casual fans radar until the De la Hoya fight, a fight that might've not happened if Floyd had given Oscar a rematch.

Basically, without Floyd playing the villain role, I question how much the general public would even care about Pacquiao, honestly. Once again, nobody was following his amateur career like they did Floyd. Nobody was watching his rise up the ladder like we did Mayweather. Nobody had Manny pegged as a future Hall of Famer like they did Mayweather. All of his notoriety stems from the belief that he's the man to finally beat Floyd. That's really it, so how can he be the bigger star, at least here in America, if the majority of his popularity stems from the hatred of another man?

 

[antonydelfini]

I hear what your saying, but once again, whatever popularity Pacquiao enjoys in the States is really because of Mayweather and the number of people who actually think he can beat him. Manny was never a guy on most casual fans radar until the De la Hoya fight, a fight that might've not happened if Floyd had given Oscar a rematch.

Basically, without Floyd playing the villain role, I question how much the general public would even care about Pacquiao, honestly. Once again, nobody was following his amateur career like they did Floyd. Nobody was watching his rise up the ladder like we did Mayweather. Nobody had Manny pegged as a future Hall of Famer like they did Mayweather. All of his notoriety stems from the belief that he's the man to finally beat Floyd. That's really it, so how can he be the bigger star, at least here in America, if the majority of his popularity stems from the hatred of another man?

I respectfully disagree about your stance on Manny's popularity that it's because of Floyd. That it's because he is known as the man who people think can beat Floyd. It's a combination of his rags-to-riches story, his personality (humble and kind for a fighter), and his never say die give it all style of fighting.

First of all, not having a stellar amateur career (being poor and all), not having a first rate trainer until Roach came, that rags-to-riches story, is actually what makes Manny special. We've seen the Leonards and De La Hoyas before, hyped up by the boxing community since the start of their careers, and now here's this little guy who came from nothing beating up bigger guys not to mention mexican legends. It's what sets him apart.

He became a household name since he fought Oscar, but it's the way he beat Oscar that made him special. Not to mention, he became special in the eyes of the boxing community when he beat up Ledwaba as an underdog, and of course fighting the mexican legends made him more known to the public.

And of course, winning 8 titles from 8 different weight classes didn't hurt either.

When you ask the public who Manny is, they'll say he's the exciting fighter from the Philippines, and international icon, and a congressman who beats up bigger guys and won so many titles throughout many weight divisions. They won't say he's a guy who could beat up Floyd. They might also say that, but it definitely isn't the 1st thing that comes into their minds.

The same for Floyd. He is popular because he is undefeated, boxing genius, and plays the villain role well.

 

[Doc Samson]

I respectfully disagree about your stance on Manny's popularity that it's because of Floyd. That it's because he is known as the man who people think can beat Floyd. It's a combination of his rags-to-riches story, his personality (humble and kind for a fighter), and his never say die give it all style of fighting.

First of all, not having a stellar amateur career (being poor and all), not having a first rate trainer until Roach came, that rags-to-riches story, is actually what makes Manny special. We've seen the Leonards and De La Hoyas before, hyped up by the boxing community since the start of their careers, and now here's this little guy who came from nothing beating up bigger guys not to mention mexican legends. It's what sets him apart.

He became a household name since he fought Oscar, but it's the way he beat Oscar that made him special. Not to mention, he became special in the eyes of the boxing community when he beat up Ledwaba as an underdog, and of course fighting the mexican legends made him more known to the public.

And of course, winning 8 titles from 8 different weight classes didn't hurt either.

When you ask the public who Manny is, they'll say he's the exciting fighter from the Philippines, and international icon, and a congressman who beats up bigger guys and won so many titles throughout many weight divisions. They won't say he's a guy who could beat up Floyd. They might also say that, but it definitely isn't the 1st thing that comes into their minds.

The same for Floyd. He is popular because he is undefeated, boxing genius, and plays the villain role well.

Good observations, but I respectfully disagree as well. I think if you ask that question to 95% of casual boxing fans, they will say he's the guy who is going to beat Floyd Mayweather, or some variation of that. All of those good qualities about Manny (and I do believe they are good qualities) became public to most people here in the states after his popularity as Floyd's nemesis began to rise.

He's the antithesis to Floyd and everything he represents, the perfect yin to his yang. I firmly believe if a fighter had the same exact credentials and record, but he was a bit more outspoken, or black, there wouldn't be as much support for him. I really do think race plays a big part in this, as well as Manny's personality.

 

[Iron_Stark]

Lol he's shorter by what? On top of that, he's not washed up like Margarito was, is a quicker man, and has boxing skills, as opposed to the plodding brawlers Manny's used to. So if your using that as a barometer, than I hope you venture back in here if they actually do fight. I think we'd have alot to talk about.

What, you think I'd be upset if Pacquiao lost? Unless I put down some money in that fight, I wouldn't be upset in the least.

And him not being washed up is precisely the reason Mayweather needs to fight him and Pac to cement his legacy.

Seriously, what P4P great has Mayweather beaten to even be considered being put in the top 20 fighters of all time?

Maybe if they can trick him to lose weight maybe...................................but anyway, actually I agree with you, which is why Mayweather thinks he's juicing. Dude has put on all that weight and has actually gained speed, not lost, even though he's older and has gained like 20 lbs. I actually can see his point.

http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news?slug=ki-iole_mayweather_pacquiao_careers092011

By age (they're only 11 months apart, Floyd is older)

24 yrs old Mayweather fought at 130
24 yrs old Pacquiao fought at 126

26 yrs old Mayweather fought at 134
26 yrs old Pacquiao fought at 129 1/2

30 yrs old Mayweather fought at 150
30 yrs old Pacquiao fought at 142

By the time both were 32, they were fighting at welterweight.

Sure Pacquiao was a flyweight when he turned pro, but he as 16-17 yrs old! Guess what weight Mayweather was at when he was that age? A super flyweight/Bantamweight! In fact that was the weight of Mayweather's last official loss as an amateur to Martin Castillo.

So this whole thing about Pacquiao putting on 20 lbs overnight is ridiculous and stupid.

Throughout their whole boxing careers they've only been separated by a weight class.

 

[Docker2.0]

If anyone actually read Kevin Ioles article a few days ago they'd know Pac gradually put on weight similar to Floyd as the years went by. Guess Floyd's juicing aswell?

As far as Martinez, he's hardly a real middleweight, he's shorter than Margarito and has never weighed 160 in the 3 fights he's had at middle.

Oh and he said he's willing to come down to 150 for a Pac fight, since you know Pac actually had the balls to call him out.

Pacquio called Sergio out?! Hahaha! Mark my words, that fight will never happen. That is the one fighter that I don't see Pacquio or Mayweather having a chance against and again..............look at Pacquio's last couple of opponents. All washed up fighters that are either at the end of the road or Mayweather just embarassed. If Pacquio called him out, I guarantee he won't have the sack to step in the ring with him.

Ps- Pacquio is not the real Pac. There's only one guy who deserves that name and he's the greatest of all time in his game. But I understand people do it because it's shorter to type or whatever.

 

[Doc Samson]

Seriously, what P4P great has Mayweather beaten to even be considered being put in the top 20 fighters of all time?

He beat the people he could get in the ring who were supposed to be good. He called De la Hoya & Mosley out for years, when they were still in their prime! It's not his fault they blew him off because he wasn't a "star" yet. It's things like that, that caused him to adopt this Money Character in the first place. When he was humble and being professional he couldn't get a big name in the ring.

At the time, Diego Corrales was a higher ranked boxer by most people's estimation, was undefeated, and was bigger. Directly after dominating him he wanted to fight Prince Naseem, when people still thought the Prince was good. No go.

Not long after that he stated publicly he wanted to fight Tszyu, another person you claimed he was afraid of. He called him out, wanted to fight, couldn't get the guy in the ring.

You have to understand it's incidents like these that gave birth to the man he is today. Larry Merchant, the same guy who finally got what he deserved, loved to say how much Floyd wouldn't reach Oscar's level in PPV money, as a boxing attraction, most notably during his fight with Corley.

Mayweather, once he finally reached that level by, ironically, beating De la Hoya himself, feels he's finally made it. He's extra sensitive because he knows he tried to fight plenty of these guys, and couldn't get them in the ring. Now, he's supposed to bend to another fighter's whims again?

No, after years of not being able to dictate anything, after being beaten and afraid of his father, after being under control of Bob Arum & robbed, after being passed over by alot of people, he's not going to bend over backward for Pacquiao, if he bends at all. He's gonna have to take the test, & take less money, or it just won't happen, period.

 

[B]

Oh please, Floyd's just as bad if not worse than Manny about it. Look at his strech of fights after he got that "win" against Castillo, bum after bum, he beats Hatton (which I'll give him credit for) then he goes on and beats up on short or washed up fighters.

Apart from Hatton from a few years back and Castillo and Coralles from 10 years ago, name some great, in their prime fighters Floyd has beaten recently.

I believe this is the problem.

Both fighters biggest challenge & in their prime opponent would be each other. In comparison both fighters make each & everyone of their previous opponents look like 'bums' as you describe them, even though those opponents had good records with alot of good wins behind them.

All I know is that Pacquiao's last fight 2 fights & his next one are against guys that are billed as having their best days behind them. Mosley & Marquez were well over the hill when Mayweather fought them according to his haters but now that Pacquiao's fighting them they are 'credible opponents' again. Pacquiao should have went for a young, dangerous challenger rather than fighting Marquez again I felt. Amir Khan wouldn't be a bad shout for either Mayweather or Pacquiao, his chin is a little suspect but hes got fast hands with KO power.

All this talk is ********, people twist things to suit their own agenda. The only way we will really know who is the best fighter at this particular time & date, is to have both fight. As of right now, as far as I am concerned Mayweather is the best until Pacquiao can either beat him or actually outdo Mayweather in terms of the opponent hes fighting/beating.. beating Marquez won't change anything in my eyes.

 

[Docker2.0]

I agree B. I think Mayweather plays that villian role really well and like Doc Samson was saying, it's like people are rooting for Pacquio just because they want to see Mayweather lose. Not all of his fans are that way but people seem to watch Mayweather with the hopes that he loses. I think Mayweather knows this and quite honestly, I think he does plan to fight Pacquio but is trying to build the fight up. He's a lot smarter than people give him credit for and now that he's a promoter, he's building that fight up.

 

[Iron_Stark]

Pacquio called Sergio out?! Hahaha! Mark my words, that fight will never happen. That is the one fighter that I don't see Pacquio or Mayweather having a chance against and again..............look at Pacquio's last couple of opponents. All washed up fighters that are either at the end of the road or Mayweather just embarassed. If Pacquio called him out, I guarantee he won't have the sack to step in the ring with him.

Ps- Pacquio is not the real Pac. There's only one guy who deserves that name and he's the greatest of all time in his game. But I understand people do it because it's shorter to type or whatever.

I doubt Sergio fights any of those, in Pacquiao's case Roach won't let him anywhere near Sergio, Mayweather, he wouldn't ride the same elevator with Sergio.

What Mayweather did to the opponents he faced were far from embarrassment. Look at the last couple of fights, 1 sucker punch KO, UD, UD, TKO 10, SD, UD, UD

Paq(there happy?) was the one that embarrassed them, bad. Look at his last couple of fights, UD (Mosley ran for dear life), UD(should've been stopped), UD, TKO 12, KO 2, RTD 8, TKO 9

He beat the people he could get in the ring who were supposed to be good. He called De la Hoya & Mosley out for years, when they were still in their prime! It's not his fault they blew him off because he wasn't a "star" yet. It's things like that, that caused him to adopt this Money Character in the first place. When he was humble and being professional he couldn't get a big name in the ring.

At the time, Diego Corrales was a higher ranked boxer by most people's estimation, was undefeated, and was bigger. Directly after dominating him he wanted to fight Prince Naseem, when people still thought the Prince was good. No go.

Not long after that he stated publicly he wanted to fight Tszyu, another person you claimed he was afraid of. He called him out, wanted to fight, couldn't get the guy in the ring.

You have to understand it's incidents like these that gave birth to the man he is today. Larry Merchant, the same guy who finally got what he deserved, loved to say how much Floyd wouldn't reach Oscar's level in PPV money, as a boxing attraction, most notably during his fight with Corley.

Mayweather, once he finally reached that level by, ironically, beating De la Hoya himself, feels he's finally made it. He's extra sensitive because he knows he tried to fight plenty of these guys, and couldn't get them in the ring. Now, he's supposed to bend to another fighter's whims again?

No, after years of not being able to dictate anything, after being beaten and afraid of his father, after being under control of Bob Arum & robbed, after being passed over by alot of people, he's not going to bend over backward for Pacquiao, if he bends at all. He's gonna have to take the test, & take less money, or it just won't happen, period.

He was never humble or professional, he used to call the $5 million he earned from HBO "slave wages"

He never called out Mosley or Tszyu

He got the "Money" moniker from being on WWE

At that time Merchant had a point, look at the bums he was fighting after the Castillo loss and rematch, from '03-'06 he fought Sosa, N'dou, Corely, Bruseles, Gatti, and Mitchell. It wasn't until Judah that he fought a legit opponent, even then, it really wasn't a step up in class and there were 3-5 welters that would've been a better choice.

You got that right, he's extra sensitive about things and extremely insecure.

So pretty much he's great because he called out a couple of people, because Merchant was wrong about him and because he has money? smh.

I believe this is the problem.

Both fighters biggest challenge & in their prime opponent would be each other. In comparison both fighters make each & everyone of their previous opponents look like 'bums' as you describe them, even though those opponents had good records with alot of good wins behind them.

All I know is that Pacquiao's last fight 2 fights & his next one are against guys that are billed as having their best days behind them. Mosley & Marquez were well over the hill when Mayweather fought them according to his haters but now that Pacquiao's fighting them they are 'credible opponents' again. Pacquiao should have went for a young, dangerous challenger rather than fighting Marquez again I felt. Amir Khan wouldn't be a bad shout for either Mayweather or Pacquiao, his chin is a little suspect but hes got fast hands with KO power.

All this talk is ********, people twist things to suit their own agenda. The only way we will really know who is the best fighter at this particular time & date, is to have both fight. As of right now, as far as I am concerned Mayweather is the best until Pacquiao can either beat him or actually outdo Mayweather in terms of the opponent hes fighting/beating.. beating Marquez won't change anything in my eyes.

Quote me where I said Mosley and Marquez are/were credible opponents.

It's a sad state of affairs where the top 3 P4P boxers are numbers 1-3 in the rankings and the fights aren't getting made.

Pacquiao has already been outdoing Mayweather in terms of opponents, and has been for years.

I've yet to see anyone post opponents that Mayweather has fought that were better than Marquez, Barerra and Morales.

Paq fought Cotto and Margarito, something Floyd never did

Paq defeated Hatton and Delahoya in a more devastating manner than Floyd did.

Again, without people skirting around the question, I'm not talking about talent, because no one can touch Floyd in that department, but what opponents and what fights have made him better than Pacquiao? What opponents and what fights have made people say "Oh **** did you see that Floyd fight last night? He's going down as an atg!"

 

[Docker2.0]

I doubt Sergio fights any of those, in Pacquiao's case Roach won't let him anywhere near Sergio, Mayweather, he wouldn't ride the same elevator with Sergio.

What Mayweather did to the opponents he faced were far from embarrassment. Look at the last couple of fights, 1 sucker punch KO, UD, UD, TKO 10, SD, UD, UD

Paq(there happy?) was the one that embarrassed them, bad. Look at his last couple of fights, UD (Mosley ran for dear life), UD(should've been stopped), UD, TKO 12, KO 2, RTD 8, TKO 9




He was never humble or professional, he used to call the $5 million he earned from HBO "slave wages"

He never called out Mosley or Tszyu

He got the "Money" moniker from being on WWE

At that time Merchant had a point, look at the bums he was fighting after the Castillo loss and rematch, from '03-'06 he fought Sosa, N'dou, Corely, Bruseles, Gatti, and Mitchell. It wasn't until Judah that he fought a legit opponent, even then, it really wasn't a step up in class and there were 3-5 welters that would've been a better choice.

You got that right, he's extra sensitive about things and extremely insecure.

So pretty much he's great because he called out a couple of people, because Merchant was wrong about him and because he has money? smh.




Quote me where I said Mosley and Marquez are/were credible opponents.

It's a sad state of affairs where the top 3 P4P boxers are numbers 1-3 in the rankings and the fights aren't getting made.

Pacquiao has already been outdoing Mayweather in terms of opponents, and has been for years.
I've yet to see anyone post opponents that Mayweather has fought that were better than Marquez, Barerra and Morales.

Paq fought Cotto and Margarito, something Floyd never did

Paq defeated Hatton and Delahoya in a more devastating manner than Floyd did.

Again, without people skirting around the question, I'm not talking about talent, because no one can touch Floyd in that department, but what opponents and what fights have made him better than Pacquiao? What opponents and what fights have made people say "Oh **** did you see that Floyd fight last night? He's going down as an atg!"

Dude you are kidding right? Pacquio refused to fight Mosley for years but it wasn't until Mayweather embarassed him that he finally had the guts to face the dude. Margarito got banned for a year because he cheated so I can hardly blame him for fighting him. If you look at Pacquio's last couple of fights, they were all fighters that Mayweather beat, with the exception of Cotto and Margarito. Mayweather fought Ortiz who was ranked like the 2nd or 3rd top welterweight, 2nd when Mayweather isn't even in the top ten which makes absolutely no sense in the world when the guy is undefeated, and argubly the top boxer in the business, but when he is ranked, Ortiz is 3rd. Anyway, dude you are kidding yourself if you are saying that Pacquio has fought top level competition while Mayweather hasn't. I'll say this: they both are hand picking their opponents but Mayweather is fighting guys that are way more dangerous than Pacquio is fighting but he makes it look so easy, people downplay his fights. It just amazes me how people just belittle Mayweather because he is playing the villian role..............because that's exactly what he's doing! He's building his image up by being hated and people hate him so much that they'd pay to see him lose which hasn't happened and to be quite honest, I don't see it happening any time soon, even if he fought Pacquio. But for you to say that Pacquio has fought opponents that are way better than Mayweather's is a joke and it honestly shows the hate you have towards Mayweather. As I've stated earlier, I do want Pacquio and Mayweather to fight and I believe it will happen next year which is why he took the Ortiz fight but my gawd, the way people are own Pacquio's strap when he hasn't fought anyone of note lately but yet Floyd has is mindblowing.

 

[Docker2.0]

I doubt Sergio fights any of those, in Pacquiao's case Roach won't let him anywhere near Sergio, Mayweather, he wouldn't ride the same elevator with Sergio.

What Mayweather did to the opponents he faced were far from embarrassment. Look at the last couple of fights, 1 sucker punch KO, UD, UD, TKO 10, SD, UD, UD

Paq(there happy?) was the one that embarrassed them, bad. Look at his last couple of fights, UD (Mosley ran for dear life), UD(should've been stopped), UD, TKO 12, KO 2, RTD 8, TKO 9

I will agree with what you said though, neither one of those two want any part of Sergio Martinez. That dude is the greatest fighter that noone has ever heard of.