First Avenger The "OFFICIAL" CA:TFA Negative Reaction Thread

There is no "real story" of Captain America, for the simple reason that he isn't real. There is a bunch of versions that are variations of skinny guy applies to war, converted in supersoldier by a serum, dresses the colours of the star spangled, embraces shield, symbol of hope, etc.

No realism at all. That's the very definition of fantasy.

There is a real story of Captain America, however much you want to forget it. And I don't know how many times I have to tell you. He is a fictional superhero created by Joe Simon and Jack Kirby to act as an America symbol to fight a real world enemy called the Nazis in WWII. He was only superhero created to fight a real world enemy, and that's what separates him from other superheroes and it shouldn't be taken from him. That is his real story.

What the country was going through won't be portrayed, because reality is much more complex, political reasons intervene, top secret unpopular decisions are made, a lot of dark tones blur the "pure" solution of a dream.

All this has nothing to do with Captain America... and lol.. you must be a uber liberal.....

And the real enemy is not real, EVEN if it is the Nazis. In such a movie, the enemy is a caricature of evil, and not the complex understanding of that particular evil, like one can watch in movies like Hierschbiegel's Downfall (with the absolutely brilliant Bruno Ganz as Hitler) and Sokurov's Moloch.

The Nazi's existed, Hitler existed, Nazi spies living among Americans existed, these are all real people and real threats to America that the fictional Captain America faced in his comics, and defeated. His comics were outlets for many Americans to find hope during wartimes that no matter how evil the actual enemy was, America would still come out on top. That is the real story of Captain America, and it shouldn't be taken from him.
 
JAK®;19562330 said:
But they are doing that, kind of. HYDRA is the main enemy of the movie, Red Skull has the Cosmic Cube, there appear to be robot drones/men in battle armour...

hmmmmmmm
 
peterparker0077 said:
There is a real story of Captain America, however much you want to forget it. And I don't know how many times I have to tell you. He is a fictional superhero created by Joe Simon and Jack Kirby to act as an America symbol to fight a real world enemy called the Nazis in WWII. He was only superhero created to fight a real world enemy, and that's what separates him from other superheroes and it shouldn't be taken from him. That is his real story.

Again you are incorrect. He was not "the only". There were many super-heroes created during the years of WWII that battled the AXIS powers. It was a booming market.
 
Again you are incorrect. He was not "the only". There were many super-heroes created during the years of WWII that battled the AXIS powers. It was a booming market.

Correct he wasnt the only one...just the most popular one
 
Some others

American Crusader
Fighting Yank
Liberator
American Eagle
Doc Strange(not the mage)

Even Captain Marvel Jr's origin is linked to Nazi activities.
 
exactly.. and who knows who these hereos are? Which ones of those are having movies come out? When's the last time you saw any of them in a comic?
 
exactly.. and who knows who these hereos are? Which ones of those are having movies come out? When's the last time you saw any of them in a comic?


doesnt matter...the point is that Captain America wasnt the only hero created to fight in WW2
 
doesnt matter...the point is that Captain America wasnt the only hero created to fight in WW2

it absolutely matters... i'll reword it for you to make you happy, though this should be obvious

Captain America is the only main stream popular comic book character that was created to fight a real world enemy and is still popular in modern times. So let's not take that from him, because that is what makes him different than all the rest of the main stream popular comic characters.

There, you happy?
 
it absolutely matters... i'll reword it for you to make you happy, though this should be obvious

Captain America is the only main stream popular comic book character that was created to fight a real world enemy and is still popular in modern times. So let's not take that from him, because that is what makes him different than all the rest of the main stream popular comic characters.

There, you happy?

quite:woot:
 
There is a real story of Captain America, however much you want to forget it. And I don't know how many times I have to tell you. He is a fictional superhero created by Joe Simon and Jack Kirby to act as an America symbol to fight a real world enemy called the Nazis in WWII. He was only superhero created to fight a real world enemy, and that's what separates him from other superheroes and it shouldn't be taken from him. That is his real story.



All this has nothing to do with Captain America... and lol.. you must be a uber liberal.....



The Nazi's existed, Hitler existed, Nazi spies living among Americans existed, these are all real people and real threats to America that the fictional Captain America faced in his comics, and defeated. His comics were outlets for many Americans to find hope during wartimes that no matter how evil the actual enemy was, America would still come out on top. That is the real story of Captain America, and it shouldn't be taken from him.

Ooook.

Let me try from another angle: when you say real, you must understand that real is where reality happens. Imagination, fiction, is not real.

You may have the first and original Captain America story, in which he was depicted for the first time, but it doesn't make it the "real" one. Not only it is a work of fantasy, but it has also survived through many adaptations that came after, and the most effective is the one which brought him to Marvel, in a comic book universe he shares with other characters.

IF he was to depend solely on that first issue, he would be dead as a character: war propaganda has its effects, but it becomes outdated. Lee and Kirby updated Captain America for stories BEYOND the mere war effort.


****************

Über liberal? That's very curious, coming from you.

I mean, of course you are clearly conservative, but the contradiction is in the fact that, in general, the liberals fight against fascism.

Because fascism is basically to say that everybody must think alike. A very conservative opinion, by the way.

Anyway, I don't want to confuse you.

*****************

Who said the Nazis didn't exist, or their cruel leader, that mean, frustrated painter, Hitler? Or who said they weren't evil?

But you must also remember where many Nazi scientists came to work after the war. And what MacNamara said, in the documentary I kindly suggested to you, about the use of the bomb in Japan.

The world, as I said, in the reality of facts, is a tad more complicated than fantasy. I mean, if we are talking about reality.

Captain America is another stuff, he is the embodiment of lofty ideals of freedom, justice, etc. And Lee + Kirby stressed in modern times his dread of lethal power, maximising the symbol of his shield (a defensive weapon that he uses both to defend and attack, but without killing).

****************

Bottom line: a) reality is not in discussion when talking about fantasy; b) reality is always more complicated (and dark) than popular fantasy; c) popular fantasy (like Captain America) can create a world in which strong values can be uphold without contradiction, in order to inspire people.
 
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Ooook.

Let me try from another angle: when you say real, you must understand that real is where reality happens. Imagination, fiction, is not real.

You may have the first and original Captain America story, in which he was depicted for the first time, but it doesn't make it the "real" one. Not only it is a work of fantasy, but it has also survived through many adaptations that came after, and the most effective is the one which brought him to Marvel, in a comic book universe he shares with other characters.

IF he was to depend solely on that first issue, he would be dead as a character: war propaganda has its effects, but it becomes outdated. Lee and Kirby updated Captain America for stories BEYOND the mere war effort.


****************

Über liberal? That's very curious, coming from you.

I mean, of course you are clearly conservative, but the contradiction is in the fact that, in general, the liberals fight against fascism.

Because fascism is basically to say that everybody must think alike. A very conservative opinion, by the way.

Anyway, I don't want to confuse you.

*****************

Who said the Nazis didn't exist, or their cruel leader, that mean, frustrated painter, Hitler? Or who said they weren't evil?

But you must also remember where many Nazi scientists came to work after the war. And what MacNamara said, in the documentary I kindly suggested to you, about the use of the bomb in Japan.

The world, as I said, in the reality of facts, is a tad more complicated than fantasy. I mean, if we are talking about reality.

Captain America is another stuff, he is the embodiment of lofty ideals of freedom, justice, etc. And Lee + Kirby stressed in modern times his dread of lethal power, maximising the symbol of his shield (a defensive weapon that he uses both to defend and attack, but without killing).

****************

Bottom line: a) reality is not in discussion when talking about fantasy; b) reality is always more complicated (and dark) than popular fantasy; c) popular fantasy (like Captain America) can create a world in which strong values can be uphold without contradiction, in order to inspire people.

Man, you just can't see what's right infront of your eyes can you??

I'm not talking about the fictional aspect of the character/characters/ and universe of Captain America...

I'm talking about the reality of how and why the fictional character was created by his creators, which is all factual information that can be researched, and actual American History.... it's really not that hard man...

yep... uber liberal.... lol
 
Cap is popular today because of Marvel comics making a superhero in the sixties not because of his WW2 exploits. That aspect has only picked up steam the last 8-10 years because of good writing and retconning.
 
Man, you just can't see what's right infront of your eyes can you??

I'm not talking about the fictional aspect of the character/characters/ and universe of Captain America...

I'm talking about the reality of how and why the fictional character was created by his creators, which is all factual information that can be researched, and actual American History.... it's really not that hard man...

yep... uber liberal.... lol

That's a wonderful idea: do some research on America History, so I can stop uselessly to try and give you a shortcut.

BTW: don't get books, get some movie, cause after what you just said, maybe texts are not the right thing for you. :oldrazz:
 
That's a wonderful idea: do some research on America History, so I can stop uselessly to try and give you a shortcut.

BTW: don't get books, get some movie, cause after what you just said, maybe texts are not the right thing for you. :oldrazz:

lol, answer me one thing

Where does Captain America come from?

It's a simple answer, really...
 
Cap is popular today because of Marvel comics making a superhero in the sixties not because of his WW2 exploits. That aspect has only picked up steam the last 8-10 years because of good writing and retconning.

And where do you get this from?

Captain America would possibly of never been around in the 60s had he not been created back in WWII when we was...
 
That's a wonderful idea: do some research on America History, so I can stop uselessly to try and give you a shortcut.

BTW: don't get books, get some movie, cause after what you just said, maybe texts are not the right thing for you. :oldrazz:

And I'm just curious now.. how old are you? And what do you do for a living oh high and might one? :D
 
Hey, this is the place for hating the movie, not hating each other.
 
Yes, created during WW2 then declined in popularity after the war. Marvel brought him back. Look it up.
 
lol, answer me one thing

Where does Captain America come from?

It's a simple answer, really...

Ahn...lemme see: that particular Captain America you've been speaking of, I'm most certain, comes directly from your head.

As for the informations required, they're top secret, oh loony one. :oldrazz:
 
JAK®;19565398 said:
Hey, this is the place for hating the movie, not hating each other.

Hey, I don't hate anybody. Not even the movie.

Hate is bad for one's health.
 
Ahn...lemme see: that particular Captain America you've been speaking of, I'm most certain, comes directly from your head.

As for the informations required, they're top secret, oh loony one. :oldrazz:

lol.. that's what I thought.. Can't even answer a simple question... :woot:
 

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