The Official Costume Thread - - - - - - - - - - Part 19

[epc11223]

Well, as I said before it has nothing to do with anyone who likes the costume. Fan opinion doesn't matter to me. Faithfulness and respect to Superman and his creators does. The MOS costume is not faithful and therefore to me it is not acceptable.

And Superman has changed-too much. Change is not always good. They changed Superman so much that he lost what made people like him in the first place. They shouldn't be ashamed of what Superman is. And the MOS costume says to me that they are.

while you are certainly entitled to your opinion, i think you are way off base for saying that the costume is not faithful or respectful to the creators. the creators are not alive and therefore we can not ask them their opinion or have their blessing, so the new people who create stories for superman are all subjective. i am really curious what you're thoughts were on the electric blue superman. superman secret identity is an elseworlds tale that i think was extremely well done, interesting and a fresh take on superman. it was superman in a real life world, but the character is different than the one in the mainstream continuity. should someone enjoy that story any less because it wasn't how superman was originally conceived? we know nothing really about the character of superman in the man of steel, so to say that is disrespectful to the character is, in my opinion, far too premature. as far as the suit goes, i believe they are basing it off of kryptonian technology or as a tribute to krypton, much like the current comics is doing. so to say that it is not faithful to the comics, is also not accurate. i think you are taking offense to something that really isn't there or trying to defend the creators who originally worked on superman. they sold superman to dc many many years ago releasing any say they have, but we don't know how they would react to these current versions of superman. they may love these changes and respect that a character needs to grow and evolve.

if the movie is bad, it will fail. i think green lantern was extremely faithful to the comics, but green lantern is considered a failure on so many levels. i for one enjoyed it, but that's besides the point. sorry for the long post, but i just think that you are misguided in saying that the costume is not faithful to the creators when we know nothing about the story, and the only thing the suit is missing is the red trunks. the main components of the suit are the red cape, blue outfit, red trunks, and a red s. i would say yellow s as well on the back but that hasn't been very consistent as of late. the yellow s hasn't been in the cartoons and live action for the past ten years and currently it is a black s. but anyways. with the four main components, the new man of steel has 75% of that criteria, so to say that it's not faithful, eh? lol aside from the rant, I hope you have a pleasant day.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Well, as I said before it has nothing to do with anyone who likes the costume. Fan opinion doesn't matter to me. Faithfulness and respect to Superman and his creators does. The MOS costume is not faithful and therefore to me it is not acceptable.

And Superman has changed-too much. Change is not always good. They changed Superman so much that he lost what made people like him in the first place. They shouldn't be ashamed of what Superman is. And the MOS costume says to me that they are.

I agree that Superman certainly has been changed too much over the years, which is what has lead to this completely impossible situation with the fans where everyone wants something different because who Superman is and what he is about has become so unclear.

But it seems to me, that with both the new Action Comics and MOS, they are modernising the costume in order to ENFORCE themes that were present at the characters beginning.

To bring the whole idea of Superman away from the big blue boyscout, cheesy, old fashioned, goody too shoes, nice and polite, hero that has become public perception BECAUSE of too many horrible changes to the character in comic and film.

To present Superman again, as he was to begin with. Champion of the opressed, on the side of the people not always the law, so passionate about right and wrong that he is intimidating.

And visually presenting him again as the image of manliness (which back then was the circus strong man, and now is great big muscles and chest hair ).

And also making sufficient effort to make it clear that he is a heroic man from Krypton, and not just some guy with powers who got his mom to make him a costume as a disguise.

Spiderman and Batman wear disguises.

It's seems this costume is attempting to be more like Thor. It's not a just an outfit, it's his heritage.

I don't know why your not more excited about all that.

 

[KingKane88]

I agree that Superman certainly has been changed too much over the years, which is what has lead to this completely impossible situation with the fans where everyone wants something different because who Superman is and what he is about has become so unclear

Funny, cause I literally just got done watching the History Channels "The Amazing Story of Superman", I can't believe the changes he's been through. And to think in the very first Sups comic he was basically a human grasshopper, he could only leap around.


I feel Henry will have an extremely deep voice as Sups, deeper then he actually talks. Just a hunch.

 

[Nevaratoiel]

It is a bad movie.

Isn't it always a matter of opinion? You say it is a bad movie. I say it isn't. Which one of us is right?

Clearly none of us is right, or maybe both of us are right. You can't argue opinions. You can say why you think it's good or bad, and maybe someone will understand it, or not, and show their point of view.

But you cannot readily say, it's a bad movie because you say so.

And that's my rant for today. t:

And to go back ON topic, since that's the subject of this one, the costume:

Well, as I said before it has nothing to do with anyone who likes the costume. Fan opinion doesn't matter to me. Faithfulness and respect to Superman and his creators does. The MOS costume is not faithful and therefore to me it is not acceptable.

And Superman has changed-too much. Change is not always good. They changed Superman so much that he lost what made people like him in the first place. They shouldn't be ashamed of what Superman is. And the MOS costume says to me that they are.

I agree with most of that. I don't about the character changes, but I think they should at least keep the appearance as it should.

 

[Vagosnati]

Well, as I said before it has nothing to do with anyone who likes the costume. Fan opinion doesn't matter to me. Faithfulness and respect to Superman and his creators does. The MOS costume is not faithful and therefore to me it is not acceptable.

And Superman has changed-too much. Change is not always good. They changed Superman so much that he lost what made people like him in the first place. They shouldn't be ashamed of what Superman is. And the MOS costume says to me that they are.

Then just dont see the movie,man.if you dont like the greatest costume ever made for Supes,watch the disgrasefull S.R. and the old movies.

 

[Vagosnati]

I agree that Superman certainly has been changed too much over the years, which is what has lead to this completely impossible situation with the fans where everyone wants something different because who Superman is and what he is about has become so unclear.

But it seems to me, that with both the new Action Comics and MOS, they are modernising the costume in order to ENFORCE themes that were present at the characters beginning.

To bring the whole idea of Superman away from the big blue boyscout, cheesy, old fashioned, goody too shoes, nice and polite, hero that has become public perception BECAUSE of too many horrible changes to the character in comic and film.

To present Superman again, as he was to begin with. Champion of the opressed, on the side of the people not always the law, so passionate about right and wrong that he is intimidating.

And visually presenting him again as the image of manliness (which back then was the circus strong man, and now is great big muscles and chest hair ).

And also making sufficient effort to make it clear that he is a heroic man from Krypton, and not just some guy with powers who got his mom to make him a costume as a disguise.

Spiderman and Batman wear disguises.

It's seems this costume is attempting to be more like Thor. It's not a just an outfit, it's his heritage.

I don't know why your not more excited about all that.

I cant agree more.Great thinking mate.By the way i love the new beginning of D.C. for Superman.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Funny, cause I literally just got done watching the History Channels "The Amazing Story of Superman", I can't believe the changes he's been through. And to think in the very first Sups comic he was basically a human grasshopper, he could only leap around.

I'll have to look for that, sounds good

I feel Henry will have an extremely deep voice as Sups, deeper then he actually talks. Just a hunch.

As long as it's not as deep as Bale's Batman voice... In fact, not anywhere near as deep that could be cool.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I cant agree more.Great thinking mate.By the way i love the new beginning of D.C. for Superman.

Me too. I think it's an exciting time to be a Superman fan.

 

[moviedoors]

I'll have to look for that, sounds good

It turns into an EPK for Superman Returns at the end, but it's a good watch.

 

[elgaz]

So a belly ring and a tramp stamp is more masculine than a pair of trunks? In what world does that make sense?

It would make sense if his name was SuperSKANK, but not for SuperMAN.

Only seeing your reply now.

WTF has a belly ring or tramp stamp got to do with anything? I never mentioned them, but it sounds like you're grasping at bizarre (and silly) examples to try and make your twisted logic make sense.

 

[Karelia]

I have yet to read the new Superman comics. My brother (who isn't a Superman fan) said it was pretty good, along with the new Batman/Justice League. I'll most likely be waiting for the graphic novel format for them, unfortunately.

I love the MOS costume. When I first saw it I thought it looked cool. But I was saying since the beginning of the announcement of a new Supes film they should probably get rid of the trunks. And everyone bashed me. Not saying they couldn't make them work, but I think it'd translate better on film without the trunks.

 

[Kurosawa]

Then just dont see the movie,man.if you dont like the greatest costume ever made for Supes,watch the disgrasefull S.R. and the old movies.

The greatest costume ever made for Supes was made by Joe Shuster, not some nobody costume designer with a love of tribal designs and belts that aren't belts.

 

[camp Blood]

now that I think about it people don't give shemp enough credit, one of my favorite 3S scenes is the diner part of the episode "malice in the palace" especially him and moe blubbering like a couple of idiots

I have it faved of YouTube it's called "three stooges hot dog and cats meal"


I apologize for the derailment on the topic of cavill's suit I don't get tribal from the lines I get wings for some reason, if the suit was white with gold detail it would be almost angelic

 

[epc11223]

The greatest costume ever made for Supes was made by Joe Shuster, not some nobody costume designer with a love of tribal designs and belts that aren't belts.

i love how you express your opinion as fact.

 

[Krumm]

i love how you express your opinion as fact.

But it is fact. Superman was at the height of his popularity when S&S were behind him, and the suit was the classic, and blah blah blah blah blah blah...

 

[TheDragonator]

Kuro, it'd be much easier to take your argument into consideration...if you hadn't done this EXACT SAME crap over in the Cap boards.

On why the Kirby suit wouldn't be used for more than one part of the film:

Because we have to be ashamed of being superhero fans.

as well as some classics, such as:

Marvel is, IMO, looking to eliminate Kirby.

Inglorious Basterds is much closer to what a Cap movie should be than anything they will make.

You're not or you would be pissed. How could any true Kirby fan like the idea of his Cap costume being dubbed as a silly suit for USO shows and for it to be despised by Cap?

You said that people who didn't have a problem with Cap's suit being changed 'ashamed' to be fans of him. JUST LIKE YOU ARE DOING NOW. And how did that change in the film turned out, the scene you went on an epic ****ing rampage about during the Superbowl, apparently? You ended up not minding it in the film.

 

[TheDragonator]

But it is fact.

Not really. It's still an opinion. Supported by evidence to justify someone HAVING that opinion, but still, an opinion nonetheless.

 

[Krumm]

Not really. It's still an opinion. Supported by evidence to justify someone HAVING that opinion, but still, an opinion nonetheless.

Oh, I know. I was kidding, hence the "blah blah blah." I'll add an emoticon.

 

[epc11223]

But it is fact. Superman was at the height of his popularity when S&S were behind him, and the suit was the classic, and blah blah blah blah blah blah...

this is all subjective and to say shuster's version is the best is not so. one could say that that version isn't faithful to how people view superman. to some, christopher reeve's version of superman is the best. reeve's version did not look like this:

​

one could say the boots are "totally different" or the cape attatchment is different than others or even get as ridiculous and say "oh his hair was never that short" or "there's not enough s in that curl" or the shape of the s design is completely different than what most people know. or that there's too much black in the costume which is really just shadow. to say shuster's version is "best" is merely just opinion. to a lot of people, george reeve's is there optimal version of superman.

i'm sure there may even be a few people who think the electric superman is there favorite as it was original and a fresh take on the character. the new version of the suit has most of the criteria to recognize that it's superman, some "purists" may not like, but it is nowhere near the "bastardazation" that some are making it out to be. this is all just subjective stuff and i find it ridiculous that some people voice their opinion as fact. i know this is a discussion board, but it just seems like some people on these boards don't discuss, they merely criticize. we haven't had a new picture of the suit in how long? just seems like people are repeating themselves. it makes it a less enjoyable experience coming on here. i know there's a lack of new things, but to criticize so much when the movie hasn't even come out is quite frustrating for me. i'm truly sorry for the rant, but there are so many things that are worse that can happen to people than superman losing his trunks.

 

[TheDragonator]

My computer lag betrays me yet again by failing to load all of the damn page.

The fact that Avast keeps popping up EVERY FIVE GODDAMN MINUTES doesn't help.

YES, I KNOW IT'S EXPIRED. YOU TOLD ME THE SAME WARNING EIGHTY TIMES FOR THE PAST THREE DAYS! Stfuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.

 

[epc11223]

Oh, I know. I was kidding, hence the "blah blah blah." I'll add an emoticon.

again, sorry for the rant, it really wasn't directed at you.

 

[Kurosawa]

this is all subjective and to say shuster's version is the best is not so. one could say that that version isn't faithful to how people view superman. to some, christopher reeve's version of superman is the best. reeve's version did not look like this:

​

one could say the boots are "totally different" or the cape attatchment is different than others or even get as ridiculous and say "oh his hair was never that short" or "there's not enough s in that curl" or the shape of the s design is completely different than what most people know. or that there's too much black in the costume which is really just shadow. to say shuster's version is "best" is merely just opinion. to a lot of people, george reeve's is there optimal version of superman.

i'm sure there may even be a few people who think the electric superman is there favorite as it was original and a fresh take on the character. the new version of the suit has most of the criteria to recognize that it's superman, some "purists" may not like, but it is nowhere near the "bastardazation" that some are making it out to be. this is all just subjective stuff and i find it ridiculous that some people voice their opinion as fact. i know this is a discussion board, but it just seems like some people on these boards don't discuss, they merely criticize. we haven't had a new picture of the suit in how long? just seems like people are repeating themselves. it makes it a less enjoyable experience coming on here. i know there's a lack of new things, but to criticize so much when the movie hasn't even come out is quite frustrating for me. i'm truly sorry for the rant, but there are so many things that are worse that can happen to people than superman losing his trunks.

Umm...Joe Shuster drew more than one Superman story and costume, you know.

 

[souperman]

so what is the ultimate Shuster Superman outfit?

 

[epc11223]

Umm...Joe Shuster drew more than one Superman story and costume, you know.

of course i know that, but this is the original. if you say original, there is only one original. but you know what, shuster adapted the version and the costume evolved, just like it is now. his changes may not have been as drastic, but superman comics have been suffering in sales as well as popularity for the past twenty years and right now the creators are trying to get him in a position where they can profit, and try to bring in new fans. those who are truly a fan of superman should welcome change and realize that right now in the comics, they are bringing him back to the original concept of superman which should be seen as a tribute to shuster.

as far as the movies go, we don't know enough of the story, but it seems like they are trying to modernize it to guess what? make a profit and try to bring in new fans. i've been a superman fan since i was four years old, now i'm almost 30, and i'm not just taking "any superman". but realizing that superman has been around for so long and changes need to be made to stay relevant. if sales goes down, and if this version of superman is truly disliked, they will go back. but superman before the reboot was in state of utter failure. even now of the new dc comics, superman 2 by george lopez took the biggest drop in sales. this may be attributed to a few things, but it more than likely wasn't the suit since in action comics he's wearing jeans and a t shirt. maybe the story? dont know, don't really care for the reason. but superman is not considered the most popular superhero. maybe the most well known, but not popular. batman/spiderman/wolverine/xmen/thor/iron man i would say are more popular. that's partially because of the movies being so successful. well we're getting man of steel, and like it or not, snyder seems to be trying to appeal to the everyone. trunks or no trunks? it shouldn't really matter if the story and action is good. we had nolan work on the story (i think, he may have just produced), and snyder working on the action/special effects. maybe, just maybe we can have superman get some respect in the superhero community. singer tried to take the popularity of superman 1 but failed to realize that it was too much like the original superman series, and didn't have action.

i think some "purists" fail to realize that. they are so caught up on "no change" that if we didn't have some change in the world, we wouldn't have cars, tvs, computers, etc. we have to take the good with the bad and constantly complaining that this new version of superman is completely different than the original is both misguided, not true, and a no win situation because you aren't going to change people's opinion who like the new design, and those who like the new design aren't going to change your opinion on you're disdain for the suit. but to keep going on and on about it is a waste of everyone's time. this is the last im going to say about this, because this is a subject that has taken too much of my time. i hope you realize that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and i don't mean to be disrespectful in any way, but i think it's time to move on.

 

[epc11223]

last thing about this, i swear lol. if the new suit was something like this version by stan lee, i could see your point of being too much change, but even with this, if the story is good and the action/sepcial effects were good, i think the non comic geek would be ok with this. but i think that would have to be the ultimately best writing/action ever to overcome this suit. but again, i think the name of superman would bring in some money and depending on the cast etc, it could still be profitable.