The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - - Part 11

[Spider2099]

In Raimi's defense of the Harry amnesia, that is actually a big storyline from the comics. For both Harry and Norman. Losing their memory, and then Peter walking on eggshells around them in fear they'll remember they're the Goblin and he's Spider-Man. So I have no issue with that.

That's actually really cool to know about. I do remember some issues (I think Spectacular Spider-Man magazine #2) where Norman suddenly started to remember who Peter was again. He started messing with him and invited him over for dinner, and took advantage of knowing his secret identity. In SM3, Harry doesn't immediately use his knowledge of Peter being Spider-Man to just fight or kill him. Instead he torments him and gets MJ to break up with him.

I think in the context of the movie, it just felt "convenient" for people.

I think Sam's version of Venom is infinitely superior to the comic books. He had a believable motivation to hate Peter, not to mention they had an actual connection before they became enemies.

Me too. I like Raimi's version of Venom as well as the incarnation from the 90s animated series. Heck, I'll take TSSM's version over the comic book one.

That's right, which was in the final act of Spider-Man 1. Before this any danger MJ was in (the Thanksgiving parade Goblin attack, the muggers in the alley) were not a result of him or his being Spider-Man which is why he never made any decision to not be with her after these incidents.

Makes perfect sense to me.

 

[The Joker]

That's actually really cool to know about. I do remember some issues (I think Spectacular Spider-Man magazine #2) where Norman suddenly started to remember who Peter was again. He started messing with him and invited him over for dinner, and took advantage of knowing his secret identity.

Yes, they even adapted that whole dinner scene into the 90's cartoon show. The season 3 finale episode.

In SM3, Harry doesn't immediately use his knowledge of Peter being Spider-Man to just fight or kill him. Instead he torments him and gets MJ to break up with him.

Which is just what Harry would do. Harry would never actually hurt anyone close to Peter like MJ or Aunt May. That's why he never threatened MJ's life or anyone else's. Only Peter's. It's one reason why I loathe the TASM 2 version of Harry. He broke that character boundary big style.

I think in the context of the movie, it just felt "convenient" for people.

I can understand that, but being a Spider-Man fan I know it was rooted in Spider-Man lore.

Me too. I like Raimi's version of Venom as well as the incarnation from the 90s animated series. Heck, I'll take TSSM's version over the comic book one.

Every adaptation of Venom righted the mistakes of the comic book version in that regard. It's not hard to top him.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

I never read the comics so I don't know much about Venom but I think Raimi did a good job, he just didn't have the time to show his full vision.

In the cartoons I think it was okay in the 90s series but I thought it was horrible in SSM, Eddie Brock was by far the worst thing in that show.

 

[spiderman2]

I never read the comics so I don't know much about Venom but I think Raimi did a good job, he just didn't have the time to show his full vision.

In the cartoons I think it was okay in the 90s series but I thought it was horrible in SSM, Eddie Brock was by far the worst thing in that show.

I have never read the comics while ok like 4 issues lol but none of the venom ones. I thought venom had a good motivation my problem with him in sm3 was he just was not in the movie enough and had the wrong actor playing him. I think both the 90's and the SSM venoms where good. I think sm3 venom had the best motivations though.

 

[The Joker]

I'll sum up the character's motives from the comic in one sentence for you both: Spider-Man caught a serial killer, which caused a false story Eddie published to be exposed as fake, and he got fired. Peter and Eddie never knew each other either. Never met. Spider-Man was not an obstacle in any way to Eddie writing a proper story. All he did was catch a killer. For that Venom launches a murderous vendetta against Spidey.

Is it any wonder Raimi thought the character was weak as water?

 

[Johnny-Oh]

I'll sum up the character's motives from the comic in one sentence for you both: Spider-Man caught a serial killer, which caused a false story Eddie published to be exposed as fake, and he got fired. Peter and Eddie never knew each other either. Never met. Spider-Man was not an obstacle in any way to Eddie writing a proper story. All he did was catch a killer. For that Venom launches a murderous vendetta against Spidey.

Is it any wonder Raimi thought the character was weak as water?

OMG this is much worse that I thought lol thanks for explaining

 

[DX]

I'll sum up the character's motives from the comic in one sentence for you both: Spider-Man caught a serial killer, which caused a false story Eddie published to be exposed as fake, and he got fired. Peter and Eddie never knew each other either. Never met. Spider-Man was not an obstacle in any way to Eddie writing a proper story. All he did was catch a killer. For that Venom launches a murderous vendetta against Spidey.

Is it any wonder Raimi thought the character was weak as water?

BUT TEH VENIM IZ TEH BESTEST SPIDY VILLAINZ COZ HEZ GOT TEH SAM POWER AS SPIDY AND LOOKZ LEK BLAK SUITZ SPIDY AS A MONSTAR!!,!!!,!,!,1!!!!onehundredandeleven!!!

 

[Spider2099]

Lol. Yeah, Venom's motivations in the comics were... questionable. There are some good comics with Venom though. Check out The Amazing Spider-Man #347, "The Boneyard Hop!"

http://marvel.wikia.com/Amazing_Spider-Man_Vol_1_347

Another good read with Venom is a novel called, Spider-Man: The Venom Factor by Diane Duane:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0399140026...e=df0&creative=395109&creativeASIN=0399140026

My conclusion: Venom is a cool character in concept, but is severely lacking in the original source material. I think he has room for growth which is why some of his appearances in other media have been stronger: Spider-Man: The Animated Series, The Spectacular Spider-Man animated series, Spider-Man: The Game (2000) and even Spider-Man 3.

 

[The Joker]

BUT TEH VENIM IZ TEH BESTEST SPIDY VILLAINZ COZ HEZ GOT TEH SAM POWER AS SPIDY AND LOOKZ LEK BLAK SUITZ SPIDY AS A MONSTAR!!,!!!,!,!,1!!!!onehundredandeleven!!!

Venum is likez teh bestest Spidey villain coz he stalk him soooooo much!!!!!!!!

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0399140026...e=df0&creative=395109&creativeASIN=0399140026

If you want really good Spider-Man novel material, then check out Adam Troy-Castro's Sinister Six trilogy. Some of the best Spidey stories ever. Bar none. It nails all the characters to a tee and tells a compelling story spread over three books.

 

[OcStat]

Venom can be an interesting character and has more than enough stories to justify his place in the list of Spider-Man's villains, even if he isn't the greatest or my personal favorite. Quite a few in the last ten years. That goes for Eddie Brock and the symbiote itself. The symbiote as it's own sentient being with thoughts and desires could've been played up more in the movie; if Raimi had more time or wanted to pay that much particular attention to the character. It's stated more or less during Connors and Peter's talk on the phone, and honestly I don't know how he could have portrayed it successfully on screen (I don't imagine a scene like in "Hulk" going over well...). But Raimi is a creative dude I'm sure he could've figured it out.

So Eddie's motives may be one thing, but they're fueled by the symbiotes feelings of rejection and resentment. I don't think all of that is established in the original black costume era leading to Venom's debut, but embellished later. Venom can be a more compelling character than given credit for, when the creative team behind him digs deeper than "I'm gonna eat your brains!"

I did enjoy most of the interpretation of Eddie Brock we got in Spider-Man 3, especially the way they made him the flip side of Peter.

 

[The Joker]

^ That's the best way to do him. Instead of just being a one note character with similar powers to Spidey.

 

[Leenie]

Speaking of Venom in Spider-Man 3, I'll just say again that I think we got a good version of him in the movie (we all know his motives, his personality, etc.). There just wasn't enough of him. That's Spider-Man 3's biggest issue all around, though.

In terms of character design, I think Venom looked fantastic. The only thing I would have changed were the white claws. Aside from that, he looks awesome.

 

[Spider2099]

Honestly that was the main issue with Spider-Man 3 altogether. There were a lot of good stories and subplots in that film but they didn't give any of them enough room to breathe. I liked Eddie Brock/Venom, and my problem with the character is not his portrayal because I wanted to see more of him. I really liked Raimi's Sandman and the story with his daughter, but the problem once again is that we did not get to see enough of him.

The only thing I didn't care for too much was Sandman becoming Ben's killer.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

Meh, most characters were badly written, with the exceptions of Harry and Sandman, and that's mostly because of the acting that was superb with these two characters. The rest? Were a not so funny joke, including subplots like the romance and the retcon that were totally unnecessary and just injured the movie even more. The amnesia had laziness written all over it, Venom wasn't threatening enough and wasn't given enough screentime, Sandman didn't impacted the story at all, if he got cut, the movie would've been better as proved with fan edits, the romance was super stupid with MJ being an unfaithful girlfriend, again. Tobey couldn't act and there's cliché and repetitive, damsel in distress finale, it's understandable why a huge portion of the fanbase wanted her to finally die LOL.

And there's the positives, like the CGI which is still solid, fight scenes, Spider-Man's suit, Harry Osborn, Aunt May, JJJ and the soundtrack.

And I can't understood why Sam wanted three villains for the fourth movie, maybe four if the carnage rumors were right.

 

[Elevator Man]

Don't mean to interrupt the S-M3 discussion, but figured I'd share this in the "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread.

Top 10 Superhero Movie Musical Themes by WatchMojo.com

[YT]zuSmOf-MRh0[/YT]

They ranked Spider-Man at #3.

 

[The Joker]

Ok badly written characters I can understand in relation to MJ (nobody else was badly written). Repetitive damsel in distress I can understand and agree with, especially since it served no purpose this time like the other two did. Venom not having enough screen time I can understand, though he was plenty threatening in his time on screen.

But Tobey couldn't act? No, I can't wrap my head around that. Tobey never failed to deliver on the acting front in all three movies. Some of his strongest material was in this movie. For example Spidey never seemed more pissed off in all five movies than in the Sandman subway fight. I totally believed he wanted to kill Sandman in that scene.

Don't mean to interrupt the S-M3 discussion, but figured I'd share this in the "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread.

Top 10 Superhero Movie Musical Themes by WatchMojo.com

[YT]zuSmOf-MRh0[/YT]

They ranked Spider-Man at #3.

That's great

 

[Andrew Lucas]

Deserved it, Danny's score was great, still is.

He wasn't threatening enough probably due to Toper's whining face appearing all the time instead of Venom's. That's why, at least for me. Don't get me wrong, he's a good actor, and while his Eddie's version was solid (Not to my taste tho), the way he portrayed him was just silly, and I still can't deal with the church sequence.

I exaggerated, but his solo performance was rather mediocre. Same bland facial expression over and over again, he doesn't know how to cry when acting and there's the silly faces. Some stupid lines are because of the script so I'll give him that, and he was good in some scenes like the Subway one, but overall, nothing special about it. Like I said, 50/50.

 

[spiderman2]

Don't mean to interrupt the S-M3 discussion, but figured I'd share this in the "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread.

Top 10 Superhero Movie Musical Themes by WatchMojo.com

[YT]zuSmOf-MRh0[/YT]

They ranked Spider-Man at #3.

Nice I always liked the sm theme it was the best part of the score in the sm 1-3 movies.

 

[Daltonio]

Ah man, I've been watching a few clips on Youtube the past few days and it's really making me want rewatch of these films sometime soon, it's been awhile.

 

[spiderman2]

Ah man, I've been watching a few clips on Youtube the past few days and it's really making me want rewatch of these films sometime soon, it's been awhile.

Yeah I need to has while expecialy sm 2 even though I have watched it like 60 times lol.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Tobey is the best Spider-Man actor. He always great even in Spider-Man 3 which is not the best one but he still give excellent acting job. All villains were very good or great. Sam always knew how to do the villains well.

Very happy Watchmojo put Elfman Spider-Man theme at number 3. Best Spider-Man theme of all.

 

[W/ Great Power]

Ah man, I've been watching a few clips on Youtube the past few days and it's really making me want rewatch of these films sometime soon, it's been awhile.

I was thinking the same thing a couple of days ago.

It's not just the movies that are good to me, but they generally take me back to some good times as a kid

 

[Leenie]

Don't mean to interrupt the S-M3 discussion, but figured I'd share this in the "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread.

Top 10 Superhero Movie Musical Themes by WatchMojo.com

[YT]zuSmOf-MRh0[/YT]

They ranked Spider-Man at #3.

Very cool. This is a solid list. I couldn't agree more with the top 3 (which are "no-brainers" in my eyes). If I had to pick a #1 though, it would have to be Danny Elfman's Batman theme.

Anyway, Danny Elfman's Spider-Man theme is awesome. It just "sounds" like Spider-Man.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I love Elfman's Spidey theme.

 

[Spider2099]

I remember watching an interview with Hans Zimmer in regards to creating the theme song for TASM2. He said something along the lines of, "Spider-Man doesn't have an iconic theme and I wanted to give him one." Not verbatim, but you get the gist of it. If he really believes what he is saying then he is out of his mind. Spider-Man has some of the most iconic superhero music along with Superman and Batman:

Spider-Man 60s theme
Spider-Man 90s theme (Aerosmith)
Danny Elfman theme

His TASM2 theme doesn't even come close to any of those IMO. I'd take the Horner music over his any day of the week as well!