Sequels The Official Kevin Spacey As Lex Luthor Thread

[Steelsheen]

Actually 2010 is still open... so if its MOS in 09... it only strengthens the case of a JLA in 2010 without Batman... I can't see Bale playing the same character on three occassions in two franchises in four years... so I still firmly believe Batman will have no role in a JLA before 2011.

i meant about what you said about DeepThroatWB

you have more faith on release dates about JLA than i do, and between the two of us, i'm the bigger supporter. frankly, i take some consolation in that. keeps things in balance

 

[Dark Knight]

i dont think that richard will die. it would be to obvious.
you know like the kid being from superman............whait a minute

LOL.....Exactly....

 

[jrd550]

I think the kid will die, maybe at the very end of the second film - and superman will end up without his son, and without lois since she'll ultimately blame her sons death on superman (if he was Richard's kid Lex wouldn't care about him)...

 

[Matt]

Oh excuse me....Supes isn't allowed faults, I forgot. Yet, we'll 'allow' Spidey to get away with things that are easily just as bad as 'superstalking'.

Like what I said above, and pushing his future wife around....wifebeater Peter.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Spider-Man is essentially a child (I believe he is only 21 or 22 as of S-M3), who was under the influence of a symbiote and for all extensive purposes possessed. Where as Superman is a fully grown adult who should be more responsible than to run off immedietly after sleeping with someone he claims to love and then stalking her afterwards.

 

[Delete]

The problem is...with the story in SR, the fairy tale no longer exists. Watching that movie, Richard White is not only likable, but heroic as well...his personality is what clark's should have been. I don't see anyway to have Lois and Clark get together without leaving a sour taste in the audience's mouth...Killing Richard would be a total cop out.

This was basically what my answer was going to be.

 

[Matt]

Spot-on. If anyone dies, it will be Richard.

The thing is, I'm not sure Singer would do that. Singer has clearly become rather close with Mardsen and enjoys having him around on his films. That could very much effect the decision of what to do with Richard.

 

[Matt]

The problem is...with the story in SR, the fairy tale no longer exists. Watching that movie, Richard White is not only likable, but heroic as well...his personality is what clark's should have been. I don't see anyway to have Lois and Clark get together without leaving a sour taste in the audience's mouth...Killing Richard would be a total cop out.

Exactly, they made someone who is essentially an antagonist into the most likeable person in the movie. I am suprised more people do not see how problematic that is.

 

[Showtime]

Exactly, they made someone who is essentially an antagonist into the most likeable person in the movie. I am suprised more people do not see how problematic that is.

It's kind interesting with how they handled Richard, I believe the intention was to not make it easy to hate Richard, to not let it become a cliche. The problem is they made Richard too likable and some thought he was more likeable than Superman. So I understand why they made Richard likeable, but I think it just was overkill in some respects.

 

[Matt]

It's kind interesting with how they handled Richard, I believe the intention was to not make it easy to hate Richard, to not let it become a cliche. The problem is they made Richard too likable and some thought he was more likeable than Superman. So I understand why they made Richard likeable, but I think it just was overkill in some respects.

Its a very fine line to walk. Raimi did it in Spider-Man 2. He made John Jameson the exact opposite of Flash Thompson. The thing is, he didn't constantly have the spot light on him. Even though people like Richard and John are likable, they are for story telling purposes antagonists. If you focus too much on Richard (as Singer did) and see that he is just such a perfect person, you begin to question who you are rooting for. In the end, a lot of people ended up liking Richard more than Big Blue, which turns Supes into the antagonist of Richard (who from their perspective became the protagnist). If you want to do the likable competition type thing...you have to keep the person in the background. You can't let the audience grow too attached to them, and that is exactly what Singer did.

 

[manofsteel4life]

I see your point but I also disagree to some extent. You mention having sex with Lois without her knowing who he really is as a problem. In the post crisis comics version Clark is the real person and Superman is the disguise. However in SR and the traditional Superman mythology, Superman is the real person and Clark is a disguise. It isn't like she was having sex with a fake person. Also about sticking around to see if someone gets pregnant, that really points to the more fundamental nature of unexpected pregnancies. They're unexpected! We don't know the details of their sexual encounter (and imo we don't need to know; there is such a thing as too much information!). Did they use a condom? Superman may have incorrectly assumed (as many people do) that it is a 100% effective means of preventing pregnancy. Superman also may have incorrectly assumed that since he is an alien, he wouldn't be able to have a child with Lois. Superman making a mistake of this nature isn't enough for me to turn my back on him. The bottom line is, I have full confidence if he would have known Lois was pregnant he wouldn't have left. That makes a huge difference to me. Also you mention Superman not telling loved ones as a problem. But let me ask you, how many loved ones does Superman have? Lois? According to Superman 2, whatever relationship they had was over. I don't feel compelled to tell ex-girlfriends of my future plans (although Superman indicates regretting not telling her). That leaves Johnathan and Martha Kent. Johnathan is dead and Martha? He told her he was leaving. The one loved one he really had knew he was going.

What do you think? I'm not really trying to convince you, just give you a different perspective to consider. The reason I care about Superman in SR is because I see in him, someone who cares about others to the point that he is prepared to give his life for them. I've never seen a major super hero get injured so badly that he ended up in the hospital (in a movie). To me it made this film and this character very compelling.

bravo!! This is the reason i like Singers take on Supes

 

[manofsteel4life]

What defines him as Superman in this film is that shortly after finding out Lois no longer loves him, he immediately goes back to fighting crime, despite being so obviously affected emotionally. Because it's his duty.

 

[Matt]

That would be worthy of a thumb up if it were true, but its clearly not being as Supes spends a good portion of the movie moping.

 

[manofsteel4life]

ANd yet he still finds time to super-stalk Lois

i think you are taking the whole stalking thing to another level. This is Lois you are talking about....the woman he loves....not some random woman on the street that Supes is checking out

 

[Matt]

i think you are taking the whole stalking thing to another level. This is Lois you are talking about....the woman he loves....not some random woman on the street that Supes is checking out

Most stalkers will claim they love their victims and usually have a past relationship with them.

And if he "loves" her, why didn't he bother saying goodbye. He has no problem laying her, but he can't say goodbye before he goes on a journey that will take him billions of lightyears away?

 

[manofsteel4life]

Most stalkers will claim they love their victims and usually have a past relationship with them.

And if he "loves" her, why didn't he bother saying goodbye. He has no problem laying her, but he can't say goodbye before he goes on a journey that will take him billions of lightyears away?

i feel you....im not saying what he did was right....but im just looking at it as telling my girlfriend that ive been activated into active duty....yea i should tell her...but can i handle it, if she tries to stop me...or if she tells me its over?....most people would tell....but it aint easy either.

 

[Matt]

i feel you....im not saying what he did was right....but im just looking at it as telling my girlfriend that ive been activated into active duty....yea i should tell her...but can i handle it, if she tries to stop me...or if she tells me its over?....most people would tell....but it aint easy either.

So you're just going to go to Iraq and not tell her? Plus, it is a different situation. You can still have video conferences with her, phone calls with her, letters, email, etc. Superman literally disappeared right after bedding a woman he claims to love.

 

[Excel]

Its a very fine line to walk. Raimi did it in Spider-Man 2. He made John Jameson the exact opposite of Flash Thompson. The thing is, he didn't constantly have the spot light on him. Even though people like Richard and John are likable, they are for story telling purposes antagonists. If you focus too much on Richard (as Singer did) and see that he is just such a perfect person, you begin to question who you are rooting for. In the end, a lot of people ended up liking Richard more than Big Blue, which turns Supes into the antagonist of Richard (who from their perspective became the protagnist). If you want to do the likable competition type thing...you have to keep the person in the background. You can't let the audience grow too attached to them, and that is exactly what Singer did.

Eh, Richard had 10x as much screentime as John Jameson did. I think the only thing they can do is give Richard les to do and give Superman more.

 

[manofsteel4life]

So you're just going to go to Iraq and not tell her? Plus, it is a different situation. You can still have video conferences with her, phone calls with her, letters, email, etc. Superman literally disappeared right after bedding a woman he claims to love.

like i said most people would....and yes i would also....but i understand how difficult it would have been to tell her....but remember he probably thought she was still upset about him just flying off after S2

 

[Matt]

Eh, Richard had 10x as much screentime as John Jameson did. I think the only thing they can do is give Richard les to do and give Superman more.

Exactly. RIchard had 10x more screen time than John Jameson. When you make a character who is that geniunely nice and decent with so much screen time, of course the audience is going to latch onto him. That is why John Jameson did not cross the line and Richard did.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

That would be worthy of a thumb up if it were true, but its clearly not being as Supes spends a good portion of the movie moping.

And he also spends a good portion of the movie saving people as well, so what is your point?

Most stalkers will claim they love their victims and usually have a past relationship with them.

And if he "loves" her, why didn't he bother saying goodbye. He has no problem laying her, but he can't say goodbye before he goes on a journey that will take him billions of lightyears away?

IMO he didnt want to say goodbye because he didnt want to see the pain on Lois' face when he told her, some people call that selfish, i dont, i think its a genuine feeling as if i had it my way, NON of my loved ones would EVER feel pain again.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Exactly. RIchard had 10x more screen time than John Jameson. When you make a character who is that geniunely nice and decent with so much screen time, of course the audience is going to latch onto him. That is why John Jameson did not cross the line and Richard did.

Hence why i liked SR so much, in Spiderman 2, great movie though it is, you just KNEW that by the end of the movie PP and MJ would be together, in SR, you were left guessing until the end, even then you didnt know what lies ahead.

 

[Excel]

Well yeah; but it's moreso that Singer tried so hard to make it challenging for Supes to return to normal life that literally IS impossible. Even Singer may not have a way out of the problems he made for Supes that make sense.

 

[manofsteel4life]

And he also spends a good portion of the movie saving people as well, so what is your point?



IMO he didnt want to say goodbye because he didnt want to see the pain on Lois' face when he told her, some people call that selfish, i dont, i think its a genuine feeling as if i had it my way, NON of my loved ones would EVER feel pain again.

 

[manofsteel4life]

Well yeah; but it's moreso that Singer tried so hard to make it challenging for Supes to return to normal life that literally IS impossible. Even Singer may not have a way out of the problems he made for Supes that make sense.

so you think Singer made this movie, with the intention, of making him and everyone confused as to where to go with the sequel?

 

[mego joe]

If I actually cared for Superman in SR then I would agree with you. But, Richard came across for me as far more a likeable character than Superman. I can't care for a character who has sex with a girl without telling her who he really is even though he supposedly loves her so much. I can't care for a character who doesn't even bother to stick around to see if she gets pregnant. And I can't care for a character who doesn't even have the decency to tell loved ones he will be leaving them for an extended period of time. This wasn't Superman to me so seeing him be with Lois at the end would feel hollow to me.

BIngo, nice post.