The Official Mass Effect Thread

[Andrew Lucas]

Also, if you want to talk about plot holes, I can bring a plenty from ME2, which has the most flawed story of the trilogy.

 

[James]

Your monster

Terminator 2 being a notable exception

 

[Andrew Lucas]

Terminator 2 being a notable exception

If organic = living being, then no

 

[James]

Ahh, but the Terminator has organic coating, so it is at least partly alive.

I was joking anyway, the Terminator gets lumped in with the all the rest in my view. Computer for a brain, it's a machine. I have as much respect for a Terminator's 'life' as I do EDI's, Legion, The Geth or my microwave.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

You can't take risks with the Normandy, it's essential for the war. Also, if you're saying that Shepard shouldn't be doing things that aren't related to the main plot, then you're contracting yourself, because the whole trilogy worked like that. You do what you want.

did you mean i'm contradicting myself? I'm speaking strictly in terms of Me3. there is no emergence of war in Me1 or Me2. while there are serious problems that needed to be dealt with, there's nothing at all on the level of the apocalyptic war presented in Me3.

Not an offense to any of you guys by any means, but this is a short minded argument, at least in my view, let's drop it?

I'm perfectly fine with continuing this discussion, but if you don't want to keep talking about it, then yeah we can drop it. I don't at all find this to be a short sighted argument, if anything it is just an example of how horrid and misplacing the narrative of Me3 was.

It's not a plot hole, my Shepard promised to Miranda that he would find her after the was over. If he died, the promise wouldn't be fulfilled, is that a plot hole?

It is most definitely a plot hole (not the miranda thing) because the starchild is supposed to be the entity that gives you the answers about the reapers you've searching for - what you've mostly been searching for is how to destroy them, not why they are destroying and harvesting. the starchild is portrayed as being the most advanced an ai can get (again - "in as much as you are just an animal") but it was wrong about shepard dying for choosing to destroy synthetics. that either means the starchild is mistaken, or it was a screw up on bioware's part. and they screwed up a lot with the plot point elements in the game.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Also, if you want to talk about plot holes, I can bring a plenty from ME2, which has the most flawed story of the trilogy.

if you would like to, by all means.

 

[James]

I thought, if Shepard chose to destroy all Synthentics, he died because of his implants that Miranda gave him during Project Lazarus?

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I thought, if Shepard chose to destroy all Synthentics, he died because of his implants that Miranda gave him during Project Lazarus?

you would think so. but if you have a high enough ems, you get to see shepard draw his last breath. after the shockwave.

that is the plot hole.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

I thought, if Shepard chose to destroy all Synthentics, he died because of his implants that Miranda gave him during Project Lazarus?

Only Reaper tech is destroyed, normal technology is only temporarily affected.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Only Reaper tech is affected, normal technology is only temporarily affected.

not according to starchild. "the crucible does not discriminate", "even you are partly synthetic"

 

[James]

I don't know if I'd call him taking a breath a plot hole. Shepard's mostly organic, the implants just helped to keep him running. Once Shepard's implants go offline, it's not inconceivable that he might continue to survive for a few minutes. With a Geth, or whatever, it would be different because they're entirely robotic, so they would shut down instantly.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

if you would like to, by all means.

I won't be replying to your other post right, kinda tired honestly (physically), I may address it later so...

I don't, but I find funny when people hate ME3 and it's plot holes, when ME2's are worse and utterly illogical.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

not according to starchild. "the crucible does not discriminate", "even you are partly synthetic"

No, it's on the Codex, The Crucible will only destroy reaper tech and fully synthetic beings. Shepard isn't synthetic and he doesn't have any Reaper tech on his implants.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I don't know if I'd call him taking a breath a plot hole. Shepard's mostly organic, the implants just helped to keep him running. Once Shepard's implants go offline, it's not inconceivable that he might continue to survive for a few minutes. With a Geth, or whatever, it would be different because they're entirely robotic, so they would shut down instantly.

it's starchild's implication that shepard won't survive that makes it a plot hole.

I won't be replying to your other post right, kinda tired honestly (physically), I may address it later so...

I don't, but I find funny when people hate ME3 and it's plot holes, when ME2's are worse and utterly illogical.

that's fine, get some rest. I'm not denying that Me2 has plot holes, I just didn't analyze it enough to notice them. So I'm interested to hear what you have to say, when and if you decide to say em

No, it's on the Codex, The Crucible will only destroy reaper tech and fully synthetic beings. Shepard isn't synthetic and he doesn't have any Reaper tech on his implants.

can you provide a source that the codex says this? I tried searching for it myself but couldn't find anything on it.

when you can, I mean. coz you said right now you're tired.

 

[James]

it's starchild's implication that shepard won't survive that makes it a plot hole.

He doesn't survive. You said so yourself, we see Shepard take his last breath.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

He doesn't survive. You said so yourself, we see Shepard take his last breath.

the point is that he stays alive AFTER the crucible's shockwave. he survives that, when the starchild implied he was gonna die with synthetics.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

Shepard survives, the devs confirmed it.

EDIT : http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/mass-effect-3-bioware-destroy-ending-spoilers-359507

Baneful,

I searched the Codex here, but the Wiki's is not the same as ME3's, with all the upgrades you can find, the codex gets updated. There's one that comes with Leviathan's DLC and that clarifies how the Crucible is going to work once fired. I'll boot ME3, and then I'll take a pic.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Shepard survives, the devs confirmed it.

EDIT : http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/mass-effect-3-bioware-destroy-ending-spoilers-359507

I know he survives, that's what I've been saying. that the starchild was wrong when he implied shepard would be killed along with the fully synthetic beings if he picked destroy.

Baneful,

I searched the Codex here, but the Wiki's is not the same as ME3's, with all the upgrades you can find, the codex gets updated. There's one that comes with Leviathan's DLC and that clarifies how the Crucible is going to work once fired. I'll boot ME3, and then I'll take a pic.

yo man you don't have to go through all that trouble if you don't want to. and in any case, you shouldn't have to boot up Me3 in order to find the codex. If it's not on the wiki, it's gotta be elsewhere on the net.

 

[James]

the point is that he stays alive AFTER the crucible's shockwave. he survives that, when the starchild implied he was gonna die with synthetics.

Yes, which I acknowledged and explained in a previous post.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Yes, which I acknowledged and explained in a previous post.

was it this post? I suppose that is debatable but to me, I took it as an implication from starchild that shepard would die if he chose destroy. cerberus wouldn't have been able to bring him back if they hadn't use their cybernetic enhancements in the first place.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

I know he survives, that's what I've been saying. that the starchild was wrong when he implied shepard would be killed along with the fully synthetic beings if he picked destroy.

yo man you don't have to go through all that trouble if you don't want to. and in any case, you shouldn't have to boot up Me3 in order to find the codex. If it's not on the wiki, it's gotta be elsewhere on the net.

It's fine, I didn't want to drag the previous discussion more because it requires a little more of thinking, and the topic is very subjective as well, and I'm kinda exhausted. I've spent the whole day doing exams and when possible, I came here to talk with you guys. I like talking about ME, and its nice to meet fans outside Bioware's forums which can become really intoxicating at times.

Back to the topic, I don't remember the planet's location, but after playing the trilogy for the 13rd time, I'm pretty sure about what I saw on it. I'll search again, I'm about to go to an almost three hours long screening of AoU *sighs*

But I stand up for my point, The Crucible (Destroy) only affect synthetics and reaper tech/code, the side effect is that normal technology gets temporarily shut down, causing the Normandy's crash.

Again, the Catalyst doesn't want you to pick Destroy, he doesn't think that such solution will ever work, that there won't be peace and the cycle will repeat. It's not really a plot hole, plot hole is how did Shepard survived the landing in Alchera's planet when a human body becomes absolutely nothing after entering the atmosphere. I could use the promise's example again, but I think you get it. Catalyst isn't god, he only knows things about his work, he doesn't know if when you die, you'll go heaven or not.

 

[James]

was it this post? I suppose that is debatable but to me, I took it as an implication from starchild that shepard would die if he chose destroy. cerberus wouldn't have been able to bring him back if they hadn't use their cybernetic enhancements in the first place.

I agree with you, in as much as the starchild said Shepard would die -but there was no indication that the death would be instantaneous. The starchild said Shepard would die, and he did, just a minute or two later. I assume the minute or two was about as much time as Shepard's body could function by itself without the implants. I mean, it's not like Shepard was tap dancing around for hours afterwards.

Think of it like taking someone off life support. Beep...beep......beep.......beep.........beeeeeee

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

It's fine, I didn't want to drag the previous discussion more because it requires a little more of thinking, and the topic is very subjective as well, and I'm kinda exhausted. I've spent the whole day doing exams and when possible, I came here to talk with you guys. I did talking about ME, and its nice to meet fans outside Bioware's forums which can become really intoxicating at times.

Back to the topic, I don't remember the planet's location, but after playing the trilogy for the 13rd time, I'm pretty sure about what I saw on it. I'll search again, I'm about to go to an almost three years hours screening of AoU *sighs*

But I stand up for my point, The Crucible (Destroy only affect synthetics and reaper tech/code, the side effect is that normal technology gets temporarily shut down, causing the Normandy's crash.

word, you post on the bioware forums too? plus a 3 hours screening of av2? whaaat?

I just watched a video of the ending, and it indeed has starchild saying "but be warned. others will be destroyed as well. the crucible will not discriminate. all synthetics will be targeted. even you are partly synthetic." those are his exact words. so if starchild is untrustworthy in one explanation, I'd say it's fair to think he's not trustworthy in some of the other things he says as well.

Again, the Catalyst doesn't want you to pick Destroy, he doesn't think that such solution will ever work, that there won't be peace and the cycle will repeat. It's not really a plot hole, plot hole is how did Shepard survived the landing in Alchera's planet when a human body becomes absolutely nothing after entering the atmosphere. I could use the promise's example again, but I think you get it. Catalyst isn't god, he only knows things about his work, he doesn't know if when you did, you'll go heaven or not.

the starchild was portrayed as being a super sentient being. he's an ai, in as much as a human is just an animal. it certainly isn't god, but I feel like the game was trying to get you to believe it was something like that, which I certainly wasn't fond of.

if we agree that the starchild is imperfect, then yes it wasn't a plot hole. I'm under the impression that bioware wanted the player to think starchild was some mystical being that had all the answers that mattered. but as you said earlier, it gets subjective.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I agree with you, in as much as the starchild said Shepard would die -but there was no indication that the death would be instantaneous. The starchild said Shepard would die, and he did, just a minute or two later. I assume the minute or two was about as much time as Shepard's body could function by itself without the implants. I mean, it's not like Shepard was tap dancing around for hours afterwards.

Think of it like taking someone off life support. Beep...beep......beep.......beep.........beeeeeee

Yeah, you have a point. This would make sense to you and I, however, some people would argue that that isn't shepard's last breath. That shepard does get up and reunite with his love interest who hesitated to plaster his name on the normandy, but that is never shown (coz it cuts to black). if that were assumed it would reinforce the plot hole. i mean, with or without extra analysis, the ending is terrible enough as it is.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

word, you post on the bioware forums too? plus a 3 hours screening of av2? whaaat?

I just watched a video of the ending, and it indeed has starchild saying "but be warned. others will be destroyed as well. the crucible will not discriminate. all synthetics will be targeted. even you are partly synthetic." those are his exact words. so if starchild is untrustworthy in one explanation, I'd say it's fair to think he's not trustworthy in some of the other things he says as well.

the starchild was portrayed as being a super sentient being. he's an ai, in as much as a human is just an animal. it certainly isn't god, but I feel like the game was trying to get you to believe it was something like that, which I certainly wasn't fond of.

if we agree that the starchild is imperfect, then yes it wasn't a plot hole. I'm under the impression that bioware wanted the player to think starchild was some mystical being that had all the answers that mattered. but as you said earlier, it gets subjective.

You know, I don't even know what are we even talking about.... we're saying the same thing... Like, The destroy ending destroy every synthetic race, in this case, Reapers, Geth and EDI. About the rest? The Catalyst doesn't lie about the whole Organic vs Synthetic thing, he isn't a human who can disobey an order, he has no gain in this, nothing benefits him, he doesn't want any benefits, he simply doesn't want you to pick Destroy. That's it.

That was a joke about the movie's length, 2:40, lol.

Well, I have to go now