The Official Pirates of The Caribbean: World's End Thread!

[Agentsands77]

1. You say they made up that they where going to be made as a trilogy, you are wrong...from the momment they decided to make a sequel they said it would cut down on production costs just to film them at the same time, so they wrote one movie, to be split into two different sections.

I know that. But to act like CURSE OF THE BLACK PEARL was always intended as the first act of a three act play is cheating. 'Cause they only thought to make it a trilogy *after* that point.

As you suggest, DEAD MAN'S CHEST/AT WORLD'S END do make up a single film broken into two. But unfortunately, even that doesn't work. Because DEAD MAN'S CHEST is a bloated, bloated movie that needed a lot of streamlining to make itself work. I haven't seen AT WORLD'S END yet, but I'm betting that if they cut the extranerous material out of both of these installments, it could have just worked as one big single film.

And also, it's somewhat overstated how much of AT WORLD'S END they had worked out while filming DEAD MAN'S CHEST. Gore Verbinski talked about the chaos they were undergoing while trying to film material for AT WORLD'S END while filming DEAD MAN'S CHEST because they didn't know everything they were doing with the third film and that the script was being changed. Even the screenwriters commented that the script they had done was only to show to the studio - not an actual blueprint for what it would ultimately be.

2. If you dont care about the list I said there of interesting things, then you just plain don't want to like the movie, cause all that crap is as interesting as movies get

It's hardly an absolute, my friend. Interest is entirely subjective, and the reason I don't care about a lot of things is that I don't care about those characters first.

3. Jack Sparrow is the star of POTC sure, but Will was the main character

I disagree. I think Elizabeth and Will are more the supporting characters to Jack, rather than the other way around.

 

[L0ngsh0t]

I know that. But to act like CURSE OF THE BLACK PEARL was always intended as the first act of a three act play is cheating. 'Cause they only thought to make it a trilogy *after* that point.

As you suggest, DEAD MAN'S CHEST/AT WORLD'S END do make up a single film broken into two. But unfortunately, even that doesn't work. Because DEAD MAN'S CHEST is a bloated, bloated movie that needed a lot of streamlining to make itself work. I haven't seen AT WORLD'S END yet, but I'm betting that if they cut the extranerous material out of both of these installments, it could have just worked as one big single film.

And also, it's somewhat overstated how much of AT WORLD'S END they had worked out while filming DEAD MAN'S CHEST. Gore Verbinski talked about the chaos they were undergoing while trying to film material for AT WORLD'S END while filming DEAD MAN'S CHEST because they didn't know everything they were doing with the third film and that the script was being changed. Even the screenwriters commented that the script they had done was only to show to the studio - not an actual blueprint for what it would ultimately be.


It's hardly an absolute, my friend. Interest is entirely subjective, and the reason I don't care about a lot of things is that I don't care about those characters first.


I disagree. I think Elizabeth and Will are more the supporting characters to Jack, rather than the other way around.

I think if they put DMC/AWE into one movie my guess is it would seem as cramped as X3, even if it where like 3 hr 15 min

granted, they made Curse to be one movie cause they didn't expect it to be as big as it was, fair point

but it isn't like they are string and wiring these sequels together

 

[Agentsands77]

I think if they put DMC/AWE into one movie my guess is it would seem as cramped as X3, even if it where like 3 hr 15 min

Well, then you just cut material out. It would be better to have it be one film with lost material than two very bloated films with tons of extraneous and unimportant material.

 

[L0ngsh0t]

Well, then you just cut material out. It would be better to have it be one film with lost material than two very bloated films with tons of extraneous and unimportant material.

a, You haven't seen AWE yet

b. nothing is bloated about DMC

 

[Agentsands77]

b. nothing is bloated about DMC

Oh, sure there is. For example, the totally unnecessary cannibal island sequence that didn't progress any of the story.

 

[bluejake01]

I disagree. I think Elizabeth and Will are more the supporting characters to Jack, rather than the other way around.

Will Turner has had about twice the screen time as Jack Sparrow. Will is the hero of the story, while Jack is the anti-hero/comic relief. Han Solo was the more interesting character, but Luke was the hero of the OT, much as Will is of POTC.

 

[Agentsands77]

Will Turner has had about twice the screen time as Jack Sparrow.

I don't think that's accurate. At the least, they had about the same amount of screentime.

 

[L0ngsh0t]

Oh, sure there is. For example, the totally unnecessary cannibal island sequence that didn't progress any of the story.

to the lame eye yes

actually it is very clever...in the first one what is an off hand remark Sparrow makes? "I learned there language, and then they made me there king"

Now, to some they would just pass it off as nothing, but the brilliance of Elliott, and Russo is Jack has to go somewhere that is land, now you ask why doesn't he just go to a civilized place? Because on the island what does he find? a tent full of East India trading company goods. what does Beckett say earlier in the film? "The blank spaces on the map, are being filled in" Sparrow has no land to hide on, so he goes to the place that made him King, and he already knew the language

also the island illustrates that Jack has to conjure up a confrontation with Jones because he is safe on nether land, nor sea. It can't go there, can't go here, now its time for a plann

also the scene was just fun, and made for the kids cause its still a disney movie


also on the POTC1 Jack v Will who is the main character

Why does Jack always end up in a brigg, or prison?
Because the Main character has to put the plot in motion, and how can he do that when the magnificant Jack Sparrow is on the loose always doing something, they have to go so far to put him in jail three time in the movie, so they can set the plot in motion with Will

now, in DMC it is reveresed, and in my opinion the downfall of the movie, is the centered on Sparrow, and made Turner the guy who would be kept in the Dutchmen so Sparrow could set the plot in motion. I would have kept it the way it was, cause it made Sparrow a little less anti-heroish, and moreso just heroish. In my opinion that is the one let down in DMC for me

 

[Backdrifter]

I guess people didn't notice the part on Cannibal Island when Jack found the hut full of East India Trading supplies? Yeah, you know what, totally unessecary. I mean, those weren't there for a reason right? Those couldn't possibly play out in the sequel somehow?

 

[L0ngsh0t]

I guess people didn't notice the part on Cannibal Island when Jack found the hut full of East India Trading supplies? Yeah, you know what, totally unessecary. I mean, those weren't there for a reason right? Those couldn't possibly play out in the sequel somehow?

Well, like I said before, it is symbolism, it represents the fact the Jack wasn't safe on land or sea, and a confrontation with Jones had to happen. It stands for what Cutler Becket so elequently put it "the dark spaces in the map are being filled in"

 

[Backdrifter]

Ya, but I think there is more to that than just symbolsim.

 

[L0ngsh0t]

Ya, but I think there is more to that than just symbolsim.

Well, I'm sure, to answer your question, it will play out in AWE in the form of the symbolism, I don't really believe that they will return to the cannibal Island...but the fact will remain that the EITC has made its mark on almost all uncharted waters

 

[Agentsands77]

Well, like I said before, it is symbolism, it represents the fact the Jack wasn't safe on land or sea, and a confrontation with Jones had to happen. It stands for what Cutler Becket so elequently put it "the dark spaces in the map are being filled in"

The symbolism isn't worth the detour, if the symbolism is even there to begin with. This is a popcorn film - it doesn't need symbolism like that.

Ultimately, I think that DEAD MAN'S CHEST is just a thin slice of narrative with a lot of padding. There's just too much action, not enough focus on the quieter moments and humor with the characters that made the first one so special.

 

[L0ngsh0t]

The symbolism isn't worth the detour, if the symbolism is even there to begin with.

Ultimately, I think that DEAD MAN'S CHEST is just a thin slice of narrative with a lot of padding. There's just too much action, not enough focus on the quieter moments and humor with the characters that made the first one so special.

Thats what you want to think, but it is actually a very well handled movie

now, the EITC stuff in the tent is not the detour, I think you mean the cannibal Island, which, if you read the post I left before, the Cannibal Island plays a very important part, and many of the plot devices are set in motion

for what is bashed as being not a smart movie, DMC is actually quite smart, and very well written, Elliot, and Russo are masters

 

[Agentsands77]

now, the EITC stuff in the tent is not the detour, I think you mean the cannibal Island, which, if you read the post I left before, the Cannibal Island plays a very important part, and many of the plot devices are set in motion

Not enough to justify all the nonsense that gets thrown in there too. A lot of the plot devices *aren't* thrown in motion. It's largely just a spot for Jack and Will to meet up, rather than providing any greater function (say what you will about bringing up the "Jack can't be on land or sea" conflict, but I don't think the scene really adds to that aspect at all).

 

[L0ngsh0t]

Not enough to justify all the nonsense that gets thrown in there too. A lot of the plot devices *aren't* thrown in motion. It's largely just a spot for Jack and Will to meet up, rather than providing any greater function (say what you will about bringing up the "Jack can't be on land or sea" conflict, but I don't think the scene really adds to that aspect at all).

Well lets not get ahead of ourselves, first and foremost this is a movie that kids of all ages should be able to go to and enjoy, so this does include throwing in some slapstick humor here, and there

secondly though, it illustrates it perfectly, the only place Jack thought he would be safe is an Island only he has been at, an Island that he can speak the language, and they already once made them there cheif, but when he gets there he finds out that ETIC has finally made it there

for a scene obviously made for the kids, it is as well taken care of as anyone could possibley do it.

its the universe thing that Pirates has created, where they turn an offhand reference from Curse, into an actual setting of a scene. That is one reason that DMC is in fact a very cleverly written movie to make a saga out of

 

[Agentsands77]

Well lets not get ahead of ourselves, first and foremost this is a movie that kids of all ages should be able to go to and enjoy, so this does include throwing in some slapstick humor here, and there

There's plenty of slapstick humor in the film without that large detour.

secondly though, it illustrates it perfectly, the only place Jack thought he would be safe is an Island only he has been at, an Island that he can speak the language, and they already once made them there cheif, but when he gets there he finds out that ETIC has finally made it there

Was it clear that Jack had been there in the past? I thought the whole escapade was an accident, and it seemed written as such. I'm not entirely sure that Jack had been there before, and that this was actually his first time with that tribe (the dialogue never suggests this is a return journey).

And even if the detour was to kept, the whole thing could have been shortened. A great deal.

for a scene obviously made for the kids, it is as well taken care of as anyone could possibley do it.

No need to pander to the children. The rest of the film isn't doing it, so why do it there? After all, this is a rather grisly film in places (eyes getting plucked out, throats getting slit).

 

[Backdrifter]

I think you are just complaining to complain. Longshot makes good points. The Cannibal Island sequence provided a lot for the film. First, Jack need to get off the water fast, Cannibal Island must have been the closest place that he knew well. Do we need to know this particular information? Nope. Like Longshot said, one of the themes in the movie is the blank edges of the map filling in. Jack's playground is getting smaller, and one of his last "havens" is now under the influence of the EITC. He has almost no where to run. If you noticed throught the duration of the film there was a map maker painting a giant map of the world, and at the end of the film he completes it. The cannibal island sequence plays into this same literary device. Elliot and Rossio aren't idiots. They knew excatly what they were doing when they put Jack on the island. I think PotC2 defied a lot of conventions that are associated with summer blockbusters. I mean they started on cannibal island and ended with a giant kraken.. main characters betraying and double crossing other main characters. I have a lot of respect for the writers for taking Pirates somewhere where nobody thought it was going to go.

 

[BloodyWolverine]

I think people don't get the character of Jack Sparrow. He is someone with an ultimate plan. It may seem uder handed at times but Jack in the end will always do the right thing. Jack seemed less a hero for what happened to Will but Will did get the key an dit was what Jack wanted. Its Pirate movie and back stabbing and mutaness ways are the rules. Is Curse of The Black Pearl better. Ofcourse it is ut DMC is a fun summer movie as it was ment to be. I think Worlds End will be mor elike we loved teh first one because Barbossa is back for the full movie which was the missing piece.

I think Jack new the only way out was the Locker to escape Jones and Beckett. The Peal went with him so he had his ship. I think many did not think Jack was wanting to leave. But i think he was greatful to Liz. But that does not mean he won't pay her back for killing him even if they do save willey Jack.

 

[L0ngsh0t]

There's plenty of slapstick humor in the film without that large detour.

yeah, because like you so eloquently put it, this is a bit of a darker movie than the first, because like i said it's standard saga formula, the second movie is the darkest, and the whole movie is continually getting darker. So there has to be some light quips in it every where, but the Cannibal island takes place at the beginning of the movie, before we get to deep

Was it clear that Jack had been there in the past? And that he actually intended to end up on that island? I thought the whole escapade was an accident, and it seemed written as such. And I'm not entirely sure that Jack had been there before, and that this was actually his first time with that tribe (feel free to correct me on that, but I just watched the film again this evening, and there seemed no evidence to that effect).

well, okay, you tell me

1. He knows the language, and only has been there for like a couple days at best, by the time Will gets there

2. In Curse, he makes the comment, "i learned there language, and then they made me there king" wouldn't you want to go some place that you knew you would be a king in?

3. He has to go to land, and he chose to go there, why? because he has probably been there before, and knew he couldn't go anywhere civilized, becasuse ETIC has put its mark everywhere

there is nothing clear about it, but the facts sure as hell can point in that direction

And even if the detour was to kept, the whole thing could have been shortened. A great deal.

it sure is possible, personally the only thing i didn't like about it, was the throwing of the fruit with the stick tied behind his back

No need to pander to the children. The rest of the film isn't doing it, so why do it there? After all, this is a rather grisly film in places (eyes getting plucked out, throats getting slit).

I think you almost have to give something to children, because they are going to go to the movie, and it being a pg-13, have to take there parents, so already there you have two ticket sales for one child, and maybe then the wife wants to bring the husband along to, and then you have three ticket sales for the price of one, and then maybe they just make a family event out of it, and then you get 4. Children are the most important demographic in an Adventure type movie, and shouldn't be ignored

eyes getting plucked out and throats getting slit, happen in one shot

 

[L0ngsh0t]

I think you are just complaining to complain. Longshot makes good points. The Cannibal Island sequence provided a lot for the film. First, Jack need to get off the water fast, Cannibal Island must have been the closest place that he knew well. Do we need to know this particular information? Nope. Like Longshot said, one of the themes in the movie is the blank edges of the map filling in. Jack's playground is getting smaller, and one of his last "havens" is now under the influence of the EITC. He has almost no where to run. If you noticed throught the duration of the film there was a map maker painting a giant map of the world, and at the end of the film he completes it. The cannibal island sequence plays into this same literary device. Elliot and Rossio aren't idiots. They knew excatly what they were doing when they put Jack on the island. I think PotC2 defied a lot of conventions that are associated with summer blockbusters. I mean they started on cannibal island and ended with a giant kraken.. main characters betraying and double crossing other main characters. I have a lot of respect for the writers for taking Pirates somewhere where nobody thought it was going to go.

My man

to more of the extent of the brilliance of the writting

what does jack say in Curse that a ship is? It is freedom, at that point, Jack wouldn't give the pearl up for anything

but why does he choose to let the Kraeken take it down at the end, and abandon ship?

cause the Ship no longer represents freedom, it now represents death, and prison

 

[L0ngsh0t]

I think people don't get the character of Jack Sparrow. He is someone with an ultimate plan. It may seem uder handed at times but Jack in the end will always do the right thing. Jack seemed less a hero for what happened to Will but Will did get the key an dit was what Jack wanted. Its Pirate movie and back stabbing and mutaness ways are the rules. Is Curse of The Black Pearl better. Ofcourse it is ut DMC is a fun summer movie as it was ment to be. I think Worlds End will be mor elike we loved teh first one because Barbossa is back for the full movie which was the missing piece.

I don't think he really tricks Will that much, I mean he basically tells him that he might have to fight a bunch of guys to get the key, I dunno, Will also doesn't really seem like he would care, because he only cares about Elizebeth's saftey, and the Key is how she gets safe

 

[Agentsands77]

1. He knows the language, and only has been there for like a couple days at best, by the time Will gets there

How do we know that? They could have been there for weeks. There's a lot of time compression in the Pirates movies. And his knowledge of the language was, at best, tenuous.

2. In Curse, he makes the comment, "i learned there language, and then they made me there king" wouldn't you want to go some place that you knew you would be a king in?

Sure, but doesn't establish that he'd been there before. It gives him a motive for returning *if* he had been there before, but it's still never explicitly stated that it is the case.

3. He has to go to land, and he chose to go there, why? because he has probably been there before, and knew he couldn't go anywhere civilized, becasuse ETIC has put its mark everywhere

He has to go to land, and probably would have gone to the nearest stretch of land in sight, regardless of what it was.

I think you almost have to give something to children, because they are going to go to the movie, and it being a pg-13, have to take there parents, so already there you have two ticket sales for one child, and maybe then the wife wants to bring the husband along to, and then you have three ticket sales for the price of one, and then maybe they just make a family event out of it, and then you get 4. Children are the most important demographic in an Adventure type movie, and shouldn't be ignored

Even without that sequence, there was so much kiddie stuff in the movie. I don't know why that sequence was needed to pander to a kid audience. Even without that sequence, the same number of kids would have seen the film.

 

[Boom]

Where the **** is a teaser trailer for this movie? Seriously. Both Spider-Man 3 and Transformers have had two already.

What in the world.

 

[Agentsands77]

Where the **** is a teaser trailer for this movie? Seriously. Both Spider-Man 3 and Transformers have had two already.

What in the world.

Very true. I mean, what's with the marketing department? You would have thought that (at the very least) there would have been some sort of preview feature on the DEAD MAN'S CHEST dvd.

Perhaps they're having trouble getting the special effects shots in decent enough shape with the time crunch they're in?