The Official Pyro/St. John Allerdyce Thread.

[ToriL90]

ToriL90 oh, okay. Let me know if you need someone to take a look at it.

Ooh, you like my ideas so far?

 

[scorchedmuse]

Ooh, you like my ideas so far?

Sure. Sounds interesting!

 

[scorchedmuse]

Here's something to discuss, in the X3 novel when Mystique is changed to human and Magneto leaves her, it says that Pyro hesitates leaving her (he's the only one who does). And of course, we have that moment/look he gives when Magneto indicates that he's abandoning her to support what's in the novelization.

So, given this, what do you suppose the relationship is between Pyro and Mystique during the period between X2 and X3? Why does he hesitate? What is she to him? A surrogate "mom" (with Magneto being "dad")? A seductress to the dark side? (she could be anybody he wanted, after all ) Rivals? Friends? A bit of both? Discuss!

 

[ToriL90]

Here's something to discuss, in the X3 novel when Mystique is changed to human and Magneto leaves her, it says that Pyro hesitates leaving her (he's the only one who does). And of course, we have that moment/look he gives when Magneto indicates that he's abandoning her to support what's in the novelization.

So, given this, what do you suppose the relationship is between Pyro and Mystique during the period between X2 and X3? Why does he hesitate? What is she to him? A surrogate "mom" (with Magneto being "dad")? A seductress to the dark side? (she could be anybody he wanted, after all ) Rivals? Friends? A bit of both? Discuss!

Well, here's what happens in my script with Pyro, Mystique, and Magneto:

With Magneto gone, Pyro takes control. He recruits a couple new members (Avalanche and Tempo), and also re-recruits Mystique as a secret agent, as Senator Graydon Creed hires her as a secretary in a move to improve the public image of the cure (thinking, of course, that he's smart enough to protect against her). There, she gets information on the Sentinels and Project:Wideawake, and relays the information to Pyro.

Then, Magneto returns. Pyro gladly hands the throne back to his mentor and updates him on all the latest workings of the Brotherhood... Well, almost all of them. With what went down between Magneto and Mystique, he is a bit hesitant to tell Magneto that he recruited somebody Magneto let go - a human, no less.

Then, Mystique calls Pyro. Her powers came back, and she killed Senator Creed. Knowing that the cure is ineffective and noting Pyro's near whisper, she determines that Magneto is back, and doesn't know that she is, too. She gives him a little lecture (“Oh, for Heaven’s sake, Pyro - be a man! You’ve led the Brotherhood for five months; now stand up for your decisions!”), and forces him to tell Magneto by letting him know that she'll be coming to the Brotherhood base to discuss their next move, now that she's a mutant and the Senator is dead.

Before Pyro can tell Magneto, however, Magneto lets him know that he knew from the moment Mystique was hired as a Senator's secretary.

For the rest of it, I'll just post a scene I wrote:

Magneto and Mystique are sitting opposite each other. Mystique’s arms are folded and her legs are crossed. She looks very hostile. Magneto, too, seems pretty hostile. Pyro is pacing behind Mystique.
PYRO: “We can’t afford to lose you as a mole right now. Can you take Creed’s place for a while?”
MYSTIQUE: *Glaring at Magneto* “Of course.”
MAGNETO: “Why did you come back?”
MYSTIQUE: *Snapping at him* “I didn’t do it for you. I did it for the cause.”
MGNETO: *Sarcastic* “Of course. This entire arrangement was purely strategic…” *After a significant pause, looks at Pyro* “…Wasn’t it, Pyro?”
PYRO: *Stops pacing, surprised* “What? Me?”
MYSTIQUE: “That’s what happens when you recruit one of Xavier’s students. Pyro has been a good member, but he hasn’t quite shaken that misguided sense of loyalty. That’s why he rehired me; that’s why he so readily gave the Brotherhood back to you.”
Pyro looks angry.
MAGNETO: “Mm, you’re one to talk.”
MYSTIQUE: “What do you mean?”
MAGNETO: “You revealed our location to the government after we left you.”
MYSTIQUE: “And…?”
MAGNETO: “You knew we would move.”
Mystique just glares.

There's also a later scene in which Pyro goes to Magneto for girl advice (in leiu of Mastermind, he's the character who sexually harasses Scarlet Witch, only he's serious about her), and Magneto implies that he had a relationship with Mystique.

 

[ToriL90]

Where are all the Pyro fans?

 

[Pyroschik]

here's one.

 

[ToriL90]

here's one.

Then why ain'tcha talkin'?!

 

[Pyroschik]

idk becasue nobody else is.

i'll start now i guess. i love his powers! they're so awesome!

 

[ToriL90]

idk becasue nobody else is.

i'll start now i guess. i love his powers! they're so awesome!

How's about answering this question that was posted a little while ago?

Here's something to discuss, in the X3 novel when Mystique is changed to human and Magneto leaves her, it says that Pyro hesitates leaving her (he's the only one who does). And of course, we have that moment/look he gives when Magneto indicates that he's abandoning her to support what's in the novelization.

Great Q. I'm surprised it didn't spark any conversation.

Or you could answer my answer (You can't miss it - it's too long lol). t:

 

[Pyroschik]

lolz. im surprised i missed that Q. I believe that they're still good in him even thought he went with magneto. he was abandoned himself at a very young age and so by leaving mystique there all alone makes him feel guilty.

 

[ToriL90]

lolz. im surprised i missed that Q. I believe that they're still good in him even thought he went with magneto. he was abandoned himself at a very young age and so by leaving mystique there all alone makes him feel guilty.

I agree. In my script, as seen above, Mystique attributes his "misguided sense of loyalty" to the fact that he was initially a student of Xavier's. I'm not sure if that's actually the case, or if he would have had those kinds of tendencies regardless of Xavier.

I think that, though he's a villian, there are a lot of redeeming qualities about the Pyro character, and he's actually quite sympathetic.

 

[Pyroschik]

yea, and i think that he still would've had those tendences without Xavier b/c thats the kind of guy he is. i think he uses being tough as sort of like a mask to hide his sentimental side.

 

[ToriL90]

yea, and i think that he still would've had those tendences without Xavier b/c thats the kind of guy he is. i think he uses being tough as sort of like a mask to hide his sentimental side.

I think so. I see him as somebody who has had a really hard life, who is very angry inside, and who may be misguided in a lot of ways; but the one thing that guides him as much - or maybe even more - than his anger is his sense of loyalty. Maybe it's because of the betrayal he experienced as a child, that he hates betrayal so much.

In case anybody's about to bring it up: No, I don't consider his leaving Xavier's school to join the Brotherhood a betrayal. He was never really loyal to Xavier, so there was no trust to betray.

I don't see him as being capable on an emotional level of leaving the Brotherhood that way. He's truly given all of himself to Magneto and his cause.

 

[Pyroschik]

yup. i totally agree with you. i think that since being in the brotherhood he feels more included in things and understood, compared to being with Xavier where he felt sort of left out. When he was with Xavier i think that he was always trying to better himself in order to be happy, but i don't think he ever truly fit in with everyone else.

 

[ToriL90]

yup. i totally agree with you. i think that since being in the brotherhood he feels more included in things and understood, compared to being with Xavier where he felt sort of left out. When he was with Xavier i think that he was always trying to better himself in order to be happy, but i don't think he ever truly fit in with everyone else.

Would you think about entering the Manip competition? I'd love to do a Pyro manip, but I don't have any action scenes with Pyro and a new character until the final battle with the Sentinels, and I haven't written nearly enough of that scene to do any manips of it. I do have a non-action power display with Scarlet Witch and a minor show of power against Magneto, but neither scene really qualifies for the competition. Since I can't do it, I'd love to see one from somebody else. There aren't nearly enough Pyro manips out there!

 

[Pyroschik]

I would love to enter, but i don't know how to manip pictures. Sorry. but i do have 2 agree w/u. we definately need a LOT more Pyro manips.

 

[scorchedmuse]

Hey Sorry I've been a very bad Pyro fan lately. Busy lately.

Then, Magneto returns. Pyro gladly hands the throne back to his mentor and updates him on all the latest workings of the Brotherhood... Well, almost all of them. With what went down between Magneto and Mystique, he is a bit hesitant to tell Magneto that he recruited somebody Magneto let go - a human, no less.

Then, Mystique calls Pyro. Her powers came back, and she killed Senator Creed. Knowing that the cure is ineffective and noting Pyro's near whisper, she determines that Magneto is back, and doesn't know that she is, too. She gives him a little lecture (“Oh, for Heaven’s sake, Pyro - be a man! You’ve led the Brotherhood for five months; now stand up for your decisions!&#8221, and forces him to tell Magneto by letting him know that she'll be coming to the Brotherhood base to discuss their next move, now that she's a mutant and the Senator is dead.
.

Interesting I dont know that I really buy him just handing the reigns back over. I think he'd like being in charge too much. But as with anything it depends on how it's actually written.

I'd like to see Magneto and Mystique's return of powers given more drama and dragged out more in stories or in an X4 if there is one. It seems like it should be a bigger deal than just to have them both be back and everything is back to "normal". (of course, oftentimes summaries don't do justice to the story written, that may be the case here.)

edit: You knew we would move. lol He's got her there! However, I'm of the opinion that she was really hoping he wouldn't.

 

[ToriL90]

Hey Sorry I've been a very bad Pyro fan lately. Busy lately.



Interesting I dont know that I really buy him just handing the reigns back over. I think he'd like being in charge too much. But as with anything it depends on how it's actually written.

I'd like to see Magneto and Mystique's return of powers given more drama and dragged out more in stories or in an X4 if there is one. It seems like it should be a bigger deal than just to have them both be back and everything is back to "normal". (of course, oftentimes summaries don't do justice to the story written, that may be the case here.)

edit: You knew we would move. lol He's got her there! However, I'm of the opinion that she was really hoping he wouldn't.

In my script, Pyro does hand the reigns right back over to Magneto. Mystique addresses this as she addesses his re-hiring her. She says, "That’s what happens when you recruit one of Xavier’s students. Pyro has been a good member, but he hasn’t quite shaken that misguided sense of loyalty. That’s why he rehired me; that’s why he so readily gave the Brotherhood back to you.” Pyro is right in the room when she says this. He doesn't say anything, because he knows deep down that she's right, but it does make him angry when he realizes what a "wimp" he was. Later on, there will be an unrelated scene where I hope to imply that he's "proving Mystique wrong" when he confronts Magneto and actually threatens to "reduce you to a mesely pile of ashes". Really, it relates back to what I said about Pyro's deeply-ingrained sense of loyalty, conflicting with his equally-deep anger.

PS: That Magneto-Mystique exchange is one of my favorites. I like how they know everything about the other before the other even knows. Magneto knew that she would tell, Mystique knew he knew, and he knew she knew he knew. XD

 

[scorchedmuse]

I think so. I see him as somebody who has had a really hard life, who is very angry inside, and who may be misguided in a lot of ways; but the one thing that guides him as much - or maybe even more - than his anger is his sense of loyalty. Maybe it's because of the betrayal he experienced as a child, that he hates betrayal so much.

In case anybody's about to bring it up: No, I don't consider his leaving Xavier's school to join the Brotherhood a betrayal. He was never really loyal to Xavier, so there was no trust to betray.

I don't see him as being capable on an emotional level of leaving the Brotherhood that way. He's truly given all of himself to Magneto and his cause.

I agree that he's had hard time in one way or another and that he had trouble fitting in at Xavier's etc.

I'm working on a Pyro origins piece that's going to tackle my own take on his upbringing and what it was like for him at the school so I've been thinking about this lately. You would think with all the kids at the school, many runaways as described in the first movie, that he would have found more in common with the other students than he did though. Bobby obviously, is his opposite in more than the "powers" sense but Rogue and some of the other "runaways" should have connected with him more I would have thought. Is it just that big old chip on his shoulder that kept them away? Or do you suppose they were afraid of him because of his powers? Or some other reasons for the lack of connection?

 

[Pyroschik]

I think that the chip on his shoulder made him seem very intimidating towards the other students so instead of getting to know him better they decided to leave him alone.

 

[scorchedmuse]

I think that the chip on his shoulder made him seem very intimidating towards the other students so instead of getting to know him better they decided to leave him alone.

I definitely think that's part of it, yes.

Something else that always bugged me in X2. Storm comes over to Jean and Scott and asked where Rogue and Bobby are but no "oh, and John too." Nothing! Not a mention of our boy at all! grrr!

So what was that about? Had she given up on him already? Too many frozen fireballs in the classroom? lol

 

[Pyroschik]

lolz. I know rite!! That part always bothered me 2. She proabably was tired of all the trouble he was causing so she decided not to mention him. Or maybe she figured he'd rather be by himself than with everyone else.

 

[ToriL90]

I agree that he's had hard time in one way or another and that he had trouble fitting in at Xavier's etc.

I'm working on a Pyro origins piece that's going to tackle my own take on his upbringing and what it was like for him at the school so I've been thinking about this lately. You would think with all the kids at the school, many runaways as described in the first movie, that he would have found more in common with the other students than he did though. Bobby obviously, is his opposite in more than the "powers" sense but Rogue and some of the other "runaways" should have connected with him more I would have thought. Is it just that big old chip on his shoulder that kept them away? Or do you suppose they were afraid of him because of his powers? Or some other reasons for the lack of connection?

In my script, he goes a lot further than just being a runaway. I think I mentioned it in this thread earlier, actually.

Pyro's problems began long before his mutation manifested. His parents divorced when he was about 12. He was better off that way. His father was abusive to both him and his mother, and his mother was a neglectful tramp. Of course, neither of them stopped after the divorce. In fact, Pyro's powers manifested while his father was grinding a cigarette into Pyro's arm. After the manifestation, Pyro's father gave him the worst beating of his life (and that's pretty darn bad). With his newfound power, Pyro takes revenge by burning down his father's house with his father in it. It's after this that he runs away and joins Xavier's school.

In X5, while he's dying of the Legacy Virus, Storm and Magneto discuss his time at the school and his subsequent relationship with Magneto. That'll pick up where X4 leaves off.

After joining Xavier's mansion, He finds that he doesn't really fit in with the frightened children in need of a loving role model. He's angry, in ways the others aren't. Sure, he's a mutant now, but he's been an outcast his whole life: now, it's just more obvious. Like the others, he needed a father figure, which Charles tried to be, but it was like they lived on different planets. They just could not make a connection. Magneto came along, and he was able to fill the void. He became the father figure Pyro never had and so desperately wanted. He belongs. That's why he is so devoted to Magneto and the Brotherhood, and why he was so willing to give the Brotherhood back to Magneto when he returns.

 

[scorchedmuse]

Yes I remember you mentioning what you had for his past before. Very sad. Poor Pyro. I don't suppose there is any way he could have had a happy family background, is there?

What are people's feelings on whether Charles and the other Xmen tried to get John back with them after X2? I know they've got too much going on at the end of the movie but afterwards? Wouldnt' they have at least tried? Couldn't the Professor have used Cerebro to find him and try to reason with him? Shouldn't Bobby, Rogue, or even Wolverine (who seemed the most bothered by his leaving than any of the "adlults") have gone after him?

 

[ToriL90]

What are people's feelings on whether Charles and the other Xmen tried to get John back with them after X2? I know they've got too much going on at the end of the movie but afterwards? Wouldnt' they have at least tried? Couldn't the Professor have used Cerebro to find him and try to reason with him? Shouldn't Bobby, Rogue, or even Wolverine (who seemed the most bothered by his leaving than any of the "adlults") have gone after him?

I think that ties in to what I said: everybody knew he felt like an outcast in Xavier's school. They may have cared about him, but they knew he couldn't come back - actually, it may be because they cared that they couldn't try to get him back. He finally belonged somewhere. I know it warmed my heart to see him finally belong, and I hadn't spent however many years watching him not belong. I can imagine something like this:

INT. XAVIER'S MANSION - XAVIER'S OFFICE - MORNING

All the remaining X-Men are gathered, mourning the loss they just suffered. Jean Grey: a sister to Storm, a daughter to Xavier, a lover to Scott, and the unrequited love of Logan.

But there is another member they lost: Pyro. He was a smart-aleck and a troublemaker, but he was somebody who left his mark on the X-Men. Now, he was preparing to make his home in the Brotherhood.

LOGAN: "We should look for Pyro. Can't you use Cerebro-"

BOBBY: *Cutting Logan off* "Let him go, Logan."

ROGUE: "He'll be happier with Magneto."

XAVIER: "He never wanted to be with us, Logan. He just had no place else to go. Now... He does."

Silence.

(Segues into the scene where they're all talking about Jean. The only thing that would have to change about that scene would be the number of people in the room: all the X-Men instead of just Scott, Logan, and Xavier.)

Something like that would've been cool. I just wrote that in the last five minutes, so it may not be perfect, but it gives you an idea of what I would've liked to see.