Comics The Official ROGUE Discussion Thread

[Rogue's Hand]

Something about not taking it like a man, eh? t:

Sad thing is the people she touches need to shaddup and take it like men, LOL

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Sad thing is the people she touches need to shaddup and take it like men, LOL

Quite a difference between an emotions-fueled tantrum - which *was* what we were speaking of - and the equivalent of being... uh... drained of your lifeforce...

 

[Rogue's Hand]

Quite a difference between an emotions-fueled tantrum - which *was* what we were speaking of - and the equivalent of being... uh... drained of your lifeforce...

From the looks of Carey isn't stopping at that w/ Rogue t:

 

[emmymae]

Oh those boys. CanCan, you've only hated Rogue for a month? That's so funny. There are a lot of good past plots to love her for. Take the good with the bad as Darth says. I became an official X-fan when I was 12 back in '94. Even though I quite reading for eleven years, I still loved the X-Men. Now I'm back at age 25. Funny how that happens.

 

[Canemacar]

I may not have hated the character for long, but rest assured that the hatred runs deep. As if the obnoxiousness of the character weren't enough, Gambit keeps getting shafted because of her.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I may not have hated the character for long, but rest assured that the hatred runs deep. As if the obnoxiousness of the character weren't enough

Kinda why I'm still laughing at Carey's portrayal of her in her best possible light.

Have her kick a$$? Fine. But her being RIGHTEOUSLY pissed/careless/bordeline-insane to justify her leading a team? Are you kidding me?

Oh an the obnoxious/emotionally unstabble thingy doesn't just go away in ONE issue, Mike. I know you wanted it to, but COME ON.

And stop pretending you're not pushing her to be the new Jean/Storm only she'll be the angsty/tragic HEROINE. It's fine, it CAN turn into something other than a disaster. Still, just say it out loud. People will notice anyway. t:

Edit: M-Word gone. t:

 

[Harlekin]

Darth, for the love of god, will you drop your Mary Sue kick already? It's getting quite bloody annoying.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Darth, for the love of god, will you drop your Mary Sue kick already? It's getting quite bloody annoying.

That wasn't even the *point* of my post. t:

I wasn't even complaining about whether or not she ends up being the dreaded M-word. I was just commenting on how Mike should just say it out loud that they're gonna shove as much tragedy down Rogue's throat for the sake of re-shaping her/making her more kick-a$$ or tragic of a figure. Nothing wrong with that, am just saying he should be honest about it.

 

[Harlekin]

I know it wasn't. I'm just sick of seeing those words pop up in every thread you post in.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I know it wasn't. I'm just sick of seeing those words pop up in every thread you post in.

Fine, I'll go easy (don't expect a complete ban, though t out of respect for ya since I've always pegged ya as the reasonable/sensical type.

There, better??? t:

 

[Harlekin]

Much appreciated.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Much appreciated.

You'll also notice I *did* effectively walk away from that 'M-Word or not' debacle in the Storm thread. t:

Hell, I even edited that offending post for kicks since it doesn't change its point whatsoever.

 

[bns]

Hello everyone! t: I usually browse these boards, but decided to post.

Kinda why I'm still laughing at Carey's portrayal of her in her best possible light.

What do you mean? Are you laughing because Carey is providing nice characterization? Are you saying that cause you don't like Rogue, she has to be written badly?

Have her kick a$$? Fine. But her being RIGHTEOUSLY pissed/careless/bordeline-insane to justify her leading a team? Are you kidding me?

When has Carey's Rogue been righteouse? I can see Claremont's Revolution/X-Treme Rogue being righteous, but Carey's? His Rogue rarely makes judgements. She just threatens her unruly team memembers to keep in line.

Oh an the obnoxious/emotionally unstabble thingy doesn't just go away in ONE issue, Mike. I know you wanted it to, but COME ON.

Rogue has been stable since the middle of X-Treme on. Your critique shows more how you would like it to be, than what has been shown in recent stories.

And stop pretending you're not pushing her to be the new Jean/Storm only she'll be the angsty/tragic HEROINE. It's fine, it CAN turn into something other than a disaster. Still, just say it out loud. People will notice anyway. t:

This is just plain silly. Rogue has a very cool power that makes for some nice dramatic moments. Any writer would want to explore the possiblities. Carey has remarked this is only the first chapter in his plans for Rogue. Why not wait to see how it plays out before making such grand statements.

 

[Canemacar]

What do you mean? Are you laughing because Carey is providing nice characterization? Are you saying that cause you don't like Rogue, she has to be written badly?

He'd probably settle for "realisticly". Rogue's the writer's pet and it shows.

When has Carey's Rogue been righteouse? I can see Claremont's Revolution/X-Treme Rogue being righteous, but Carey's? His Rogue rarely makes judgements. She just threatens her unruly team memembers to keep in line.

The scene where she chews out Cyke for rightly questioning her descisions in the supernova's arc comes to mind.

Rogue has been stable since the middle of X-Treme on. Your critique shows more how you would like it to be, than what has been shown in recent stories.

I can't blame you for not reading Austen and Milligan's work with the character, but their crap is, alas, still canon.

This is just plain silly. Rogue has a very cool power that makes for some nice dramatic moments. Any writer would want to explore the possiblities. Carey has remarked this is only the first chapter in his plans for Rogue. Why not wait to see how it plays out before making such grand statements.

I can already see where he's going with it: Rogue is uber!!! But she's also uber-tragic!!!

 

[bns]

He'd probably settle for "realisticly". Rogue's the writer's pet and it shows.

That's your opinion, but I don't see that at all. I'd like to know what you mean by realistic. She has been solid, but surely not more than reasonable. How is she his pet? Does Carey keep her on a chain and feed her treats? Does he spray her with a bottle when she is bad?

Are you trying to say that he favors her over the others and gives her more spotlight and shows her with a white light shining from her head? That's a bit of a leap. Cyke stood up to her, Pan handed her her ass, and Cable told her "no" then basically slapped her on the wrist. Everyone shares the spotlight in X-Men. They have all had their own moments. Maybe you feel this way because you hate the character. That's cool. But then what's the point of the debate. You are already prejudice so no matter what, you won't like it. That's how unreasonable hate works.

The scene where she chews out Cyke for rightly questioning her descisions in the supernova's arc comes to mind.

When did she do this? When she told him to deal with his decision to let her lead? I don't think that constitutes "chewing out." When she jumped on Raven for trying to make "mother/daughter" conversation, now that's chewing out!

I can't blame you for not reading Austen and Milligan's work with the character, but their crap is, alas, still canon.

Rogue wasn't dealing with powers that made her crazy in Austin/Milligan issues. Bad storylines, sure, but she was okay powerwise. She had the fire-powers.

I can already see where he's going with it: Rogue is uber!!! But she's also uber-tragic!!!

Well since the story hasn't played out yet, maybe you should wait and see. I really like Carey's run so far.

 

[iamlegend]

That's your opinion, but I don't see that at all. I'd like to know what you mean by realistic. She has been solid, but surely not more than reasonable. How is she his pet? Does Carey keep her on a chain and feed her treats? Does he spray her with a bottle when she is bad?

Are you trying to say that he favors her over the others and gives her more spotlight and shows her with a white light shining from her head? That's a bit of a leap.

Are you kidding me? Carey has repeatedly stated himself that Rogue's his favorite character. Since he's gotten a hold of her she hasn't been able to do any wrong, and her angsty whiny side has seemingly disappeared. In its place we get some half-cocked "righteous" leader. Canemacar's statement isn't a leap, it's fact.

Oh, and when Cyclops "stood up to her" Rogue *****ed him out in a fashion that wouldn't have worked under any other X-writer. Why? Because the scene was written soley to make Rogue look like an unber super duper badass!!!!11!!

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

What do you mean? Are you laughing because Carey is providing nice characterization? Are you saying that cause you don't like Rogue, she has to be written badly?

No, I'm asking for something in-character that doesn't reek of character worship.

Ask Storm fans. I hate 'once-CC-was-done-destroying-her' Storm with a passion and yet I'll be the first to admit she's getting screwed over in Black Panther because of silly/bad characterization. She comes off as an imbecile. Which she ISN'T.

I'm a Scott/Emma fan. No secrets there. But had Whedon never even aknowledged that not all was well in paradise, I would've been rolling my eyes.

Ignoring Rogue's short fuse and history of emotional instability is just that: ignoring (just BECAUSE, mind you) something that is and has every reason to still be there.

When has Carey's Rogue been righteouse? [...] She just threatens her unruly team memembers to keep in line.

You don't see a problem in logic there?

She basically threatens to KILL them the second they step out of line and Carey makes it look OK. You do remember they're the GOOD guys, right?

Also, she walks around with a living mutant WMD (nano-sentinels) and she gets away with it just by telling people off.

Rogue has been stable since the middle of X-Treme on. Your critique shows more how you would like it to be, than what has been shown in recent stories.

Where do I even begin with that one??

Claremont wrote it. To put it a politely, Claremont has sort of a *BIAS* towards his female characters. Common sense dictates one should take his character worship diatribes with a grain of salt. That's not me being sexist or hateful, the guy just does this s**t *ALL THE TIME*.

This is just plain silly. Rogue has a very cool power that makes for some nice dramatic moments. Any writer would want to explore the possiblities. Carey has remarked this is only the first chapter in his plans for Rogue. Why not wait to see how it plays out before making such grand statements.

No, trust us on this one, he's gonna shove tragedy down her throat to make her even more tragic/angsty and, eventually, UBER.

At this point, we can't stop it. We just want him to be honest about it rather than assume we can't see it coming a mile away.

Trust me on this one, Whedon won't try to argue that his run in AXM wasn't mostly custom-made for Kitty.

 

[bns]

Are you kidding me? Carey has repeatedly stated himself that Rogue's his favorite character. Since he's gotten a hold of her she hasn't been able to do any wrong, and her angsty whiny side has seemingly disappeared. In its place we get some half-cocked "righteous" leader. Canemacar's statement isn't a leap, it's fact.

Really??? I believe Scott Summers is Carey's favorite character. Since X-Men #188, Rogue has been written as competent, not perfect. I can understand with all the previous bad writers, your confusion.

Oh, and when Cyclops "stood up to her" Rogue *****ed him out in a fashion that wouldn't have worked under any other X-writer. Why? Because the scene was written soley to make Rogue look like an unber super duper badass!!!!11!!

It was a badass moment. I agree. She looked great! I *heart* Carey! It wasn't as glorious as you make it sound. Cyke did not go running home to mother. She did not ruin him for all time. Rogue does deserve some cool moments. It isn't as overdone as you all make it sound.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Really??? I believe Scott Summers is Carey's favorite character.

We *know* he said so, but we're not quite sure *since WHEN*, considering how much of a tool he was in Supernovas.

It was a badass moment. I agree. She looked great! I *heart* Carey! It wasn't as glorious as you make it sound. Cyke did not go running home to mother. She did not ruin him for all time. Rogue does deserve some cool moments. It isn't as overdone as you all make it sound.

You're missing the whole point.

She wasn't right. Her side of this argument was the weakest one and by far. And yet Carey made *her* look good.

It's not about Cyke vs Rogue, it's about the *principle* of ANYONE getting away with that dicey of a decision.

You didn't see Kitty getting away with gunning down Emma Frost just for the sake of looking bada$$, did you?

 

[iamlegend]

Really??? I believe Scott Summers is Carey's favorite character. Since X-Men #188, Rogue has been written as competent, not perfect. I can understand with all the previous bad writers, your confusion.



It was a badass moment. I agree. She looked great! I *heart* Carey! It wasn't as glorious as you make it sound. Cyke did not go running home to mother. She did not ruin him for all time. Rogue does deserve some cool moments. It isn't as overdone as you all make it sound.

Okay, I think I might just give up. You're quite obviously a Rogue worshipper who's not going to even bother reading what I have to say unless it's ROGUE IS AWESOME!1!!!!!111!!

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Okay, I think I might just give up. You're quite obviously a Rogue worshipper who's not going to even bother reading what I have to say unless it's ROGUE IS AWESOME!1!!!!!111!!

Read my last posts in the Storm & x-men thread. t:

 

[bns]

No, I'm asking for something in-character that doesn't reek of character worship.

Yeah, I have been reading. You say this a lot. But really there is no proof. You don't like Rogue, so if she is competent, you say it's character worship. It's just not so. Rogue would be in every issue and saving the day. But she has been sidelined, she has been questioned, she was even captured and her team rescued her. The other characters get their moments too. Carey has shown the team working together and using their powers in a really nice way.

Ignoring Rogue's short fuse and history of emotional instability is just that: ignoring (just BECAUSE, mind you) something that is and has every reason to still be there.

This is not true. Carey hasn't ignored Rogue's short fuse.

You don't see a problem in logic there?

Not really. What is the problem supposed to be.

She basically threatens to KILL them the second they step out of line and Carey makes it look OK. You do remember they're the GOOD guys, right?

No she doesn't. Again this isn't true. What "good guys" did Rogue threaten to kill? She strong-armed Regan and Sabretooth. They are bad guys she has working for her. Keeping a tigh-leash on them isn't really contraversal.

Also, she walks around with a living mutant WMD (nano-sentinels) and she gets away with it just by telling people off.

The Sabretooth thing really bothers you, but it doesn't me. I liked that storyline quite a bit and like her resourcefulness.

Claremont wrote it. To put it a politely, Claremont has sort of a *BIAS* towards his female characters. Common sense dictates one should take his character worship diatribes with a grain of salt. That's not me being sexist or hateful, the guy just does this s**t *ALL THE TIME*.

I didn't really like X-Treme X-Men and agree that CC's characters do a lot of talking. But he did show her to be stable which continued on through Milligan/Austen, so Carey didn't reinvent her or anything.

No, trust us on this one, he's gonna shove tragedy down her throat to make her even more tragic/angsty and, eventually, UBER.

Why, you have yet to convince me of anything except that you do not like Rogue and since Carey is a Rogue fan you don't like Carey. That really means nothing. t:

 

[bns]

Okay, I think I might just give up. You're quite obviously a Rogue worshipper who's not going to even bother reading what I have to say unless it's ROGUE IS AWESOME!1!!!!!111!!

That's not true. Why are you so upset? I just don't agree with you. You seem to want to convice me to think like you and if I don't you label me. That's uncool.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Yeah, I have been reading. You say this a lot. But really there is no proof. You don't like Rogue, so if she is competent, you say it's character worship. It's just not so. Rogue would be in every issue and saving the day.

You're taking this WAY too literaly. It's called SUBTEXT, hon. Of course NO character will be in every issue and save the day every time.

Kitty doesn't do *everything* in Astonishing and yet Whedon definitely has it bad for her.

This is not true. Carey hasn't ignored Rogue's short fuse.

Yeah, but he makes it look good or RIGHT. Which is pretty much the exact opposite of what a short fuse should be.

No she doesn't. Again this isn't true. What "good guys" did Rogue threaten to kill? She strong-armed Regan and Sabretooth. They are bad guys she has working for her. Keeping a tigh-leash on them isn't really contraversal.

SUBTEXT. Cause NANO-SENTINELS wouldn't count as murder?? What about that knife analogy with Mystique?? Not graphic enough?

The Sabretooth thing really bothers you, but it doesn't me. I liked that storyline quite a bit and like her resourcefulness.

If the guy gets loose, there's the perfect mutant-killing weapon out there. It's not as if that Stryker lunatic was out killing mutants or anything.

I didn't really like X-Treme X-Men and agree that CC's characters do a lot of talking. But he did show her to be stable which continued on through Milligan/Austen, so Carey didn't reinvent her or anything.

Was I too subtle or...???? What does bias has to do with talking?? Claremont has a history of worshiping his female characters and turning them into (or having them start as) Mary-Sues.

 

[bns]

You're taking this WAY too literaly. It's called SUBTEXT, hon. Of course NO character will be in every issue and save the day every time.

Well hon, that still doesn't prove she is the uber-star of X-Men. They all have had really nice moments.

Yeah, but he makes it look good or RIGHT. Which is pretty much the exact opposite of what a short fuse should be.

Or, he is just a better writer and knows how to make the "short-fuse" work for her character. God forbid that Carey write his characters well.

SUBTEXT. Cause NANO-SENTINELS wouldn't count as murder?? What about that knife analogy with Mystique?? Not graphic enough?

Why are you pointing out "subtext"? Your points are obvious, there's no hidden meaning. I get what you are saying and I don't agree. Sabretooth and Raven are not good guys, so threatening them doesn't seem to me that big of a deal.

If the guy gets loose, there's the perfect mutant-killing weapon out there. It's not as if that Stryker lunatic was out killing mutants or anything.

This could happen. I am very interested to see the follow up to the nano-sentinels. It could be very cool.

Did you even read what I said? Apparently I was *too* subtle. Claremont has a history of worshiping his female characters and turning them into (or having them start as) Mary-Sues.

I did read what you said. Believe me, there is nothing subtle in your posts. CC does tend to write that way I agree. But really has nothing to do with your point that Rogue is unfit to lead cause of mental instability. As I mentioned, she is mentally fit as shown recently in X-Treme to present. She might not lead soon, but for the reason she was chosen and the team she was set to lead, she was fine.