Comics The Official ROGUE Discussion Thread

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Well hon, that still doesn't prove she is the uber-star of X-Men.

You can't possibly be serious about this.

Or, he is just a better writer and knows how to make the "short-fuse" work for her character. God forbid that Carey write his characters well.

A short fuse working for ANY character in a combat situation is preposterous. Go ask any any psychologist/fighter/martial artist.

This isn't Bloodsport/Kickboxer.

Why are you pointing out "subtext"? Your points are obvious, there's no hidden meaning.

SUBTEXT OF THE BOOK. BOOOOOOKKKKK.

With that line alone, you just about proved my every point. t:

I get what you are saying and I don't agree. Sabretooth and Raven are not good guys, so threatening them doesn't seem to me that big of a deal.

For the X-Men, it most certainly IS. That, and she's not *just* threatening them.

CC does tend to write that way I agree. But really has nothing to do with your point that Rogue is unfit to lead cause of mental instability. As I mentioned, she is mentally fit as shown recently in X-Treme to present. She might not lead soon, but for the reason she was chosen and the team she was set to lead, she was fine.

The hell???

Wait, she's more become more stable during a CC run and you AGREED that CC writes his characters as Mary Sues.

Please tell me the irony of your statement isn't lost on you.

 

[bns]

You can't possibly be serious about this.

A short fuse working for ANY character in a combat situation is preposterous. Go ask any any psychologist/fighter/martial artist.

This isn't Bloodsport/Kickboxer.

You're funny. You will call on things to prove a point, but not really say anything at all. What do psycologists/fighter/martial artists have to say about "short fuses"?

SUBTEXT OF THE BOOK. BOOOOOOKKKKK.

So the subtext shows that Rogue is an uber-leader, star of Carey's X-Men, but you can't prove it with examples?

With that line alone, you just about proved my every point. t:

That you are not subtle? You have yet to prove anything. Again, all you keep saying is you don't like Rogue and since Carey is a Rogue fan you don't like him cause he is incapable of being a fair and solid writer. I disagree with you and given proof, you give obtuse answers and say they are facts. Maybe your dislike of the character is clouding your judgment of the material. Carey is a decent writer, sure he has big ideas that he doesn't always pull together in the end. But the issues are entertaining and his characters all get fair play. Possibly why he is doing so well right now.

For the X-Men, it most certainly IS. That, and she's not *just* threatening them.

Again to me it's not anything I would bat an eyelash about.

Wait, she's more become more stable during a CC run and you AGREED that CC writes his characters as Mary Sues.

Wait, since when is being a Mary-Sue=Mental Instability?

Please tell me the irony of your statement isn't lost on you.

Maybe, but your use of "irony" here is incorrect. t:

 

[iamlegend]

Darth, I'm starting to become convinced that bns is an alter ego for Tee21 t: ...

Both refuse to even acknowledge any points you try to make against the characters in question, and always fall back upon the classic "Well, I don't think that proves anything!" response.

Conspiracy, I say!

 

[spark627]

Or people just don't agree with you, deal with it.

 

[iamlegend]

Or people just don't agree with you, deal with it.

Ah, the second favorite response of both Rogue and Storm fans! I nearly forgot. t:

 

[spark627]

I don't understand. A few of you are in a thread for Rogue fans, you are crapping all over her and you want us Rogue fans to bow down to what you say?

You don't understand how we don't agree with anything you say, yet you haven't agreed with anything we have said.

 

[iamlegend]

I don't understand. A few of you are in a thread for Rogue fans, you are crapping all over her and you want us Rogue fans to bow down to what you say?

You don't understand how we don't agree with anything you say, yet you haven't agreed with anything we have said.

It is a thread for Rogue discussion as made evident by the thread's very title. We are discussing Rogue. I really don't expect anyone to "bow down to what I say," but it's not going to stop me from at least trying to get one small point or another across.

But if people countered with something more than "Oh well, that's how it is!" and "Deal with it." then I might shut up a little.

 

[bns]

Darth, I'm starting to become convinced that bns is an alter ego for Tee21 t: ...

Both refuse to even acknowledge any points you try to make against the characters in question, and always fall back upon the classic "Well, I don't think that proves anything!" response.

Conspiracy, I say!

I don't know who this Tee21 is, but perhaps he is arguing with brick walls too. Honestly, I am asking legitimate questions. I find this thread has a lot of bullying and no facts. I see more spinning of the truth here than Fox News at the DNC!

 

[spark627]

It is a thread for Rogue discussion as made evident by the thread's very title. We are discussing Rogue. I really don't expect anyone to "bow down to what I say," but it's not going to stop me from at least trying to get one small point or another across.

But if people countered with something more than "Oh well, that's how it is!" and "Deal with it." then I might shut up a little.

You're right, you should be here to discuss Rogue but you can't get annoyed when certain people don't agree with you. You have gotten your points across, but you're most likely not going to convert anyone. I have seen people counteract comments with things more intelligent then 'oh well' and 'deal with it' (myself included).

I think its ridiculous that people are hating on Rogue bc she is the writers favorite. She has taken the back seat in many issues since Mike Carey has come on board and hasn't taken the focal point of the book, IMO. I also don't understand why Gambit fans blame Rogue for all of his issues.

 

[Canemacar]

I also don't understand why Gambit fans blame Rogue for all of his issues.

Rogue fans do it vice versa often enough.

 

[spark627]

Perhaps they do, no where near as much though. I don't personally blame either one for the others short-comings, just seems weird to me.

 

[Canemacar]

Perhaps they do, no where near as much though.

LMAO. You haven't been paying attention apparently.

 

[spark627]

mmm yes I have.

 

[Canemacar]

mmm yes I have.

Apparently not. Shortly after Carey came along, you couldn't enter a topic about Rogue on any messageboard without Rogue fans saying how great it is that Gambit has finally "stopped ruining Rogue".

 

[bns]

Apparently not. Shortly after Carey came along, you couldn't enter a topic about Rogue on any messageboard without Rogue fans saying how great it is that Gambit has finally "stopped ruining Rogue".

Perhaps they just like that the focus was not soley on the relationship. In any case saying that either character ruined the other is a silly argument. Also, one that can't be won and isn't worth debating.

 

[spark627]

yep

My only problem with their relationship was that some writers refused to seperate them and wouldn't write one without the other.

 

[Rogue's Hand]

Are you kidding me? Carey has repeatedly stated himself that Rogue's his favorite character. Since he's gotten a hold of her she hasn't been able to do any wrong, and her angsty whiny side has seemingly disappeared. In its place we get some half-cocked "righteous" leader. Canemacar's statement isn't a leap, it's fact.

Oh, and when Cyclops "stood up to her" Rogue *****ed him out in a fashion that wouldn't have worked under any other X-writer. Why? Because the scene was written soley to make Rogue look like an unber super duper badass!!!!11!!

And why the heck not?????
Even if that were the case I'm sure every writer has had a shot
at writing their favorite character!! Why can't Rogue?
Her powers are screwed up! She's been extremely unstable for
years!!! I've been waiting for this moment for a long time
and I'll be damned if some hateful fans are gonna ruin it for us Rogue fans.
Let my girl get herself together then maybe your favorite hero
will get his chance up to bat, jeesh. She was knocked out
for like the past 2 issues, she 's back and you guys already wanna hate?
Get it together. I didn't know a mere female could get so many mens'
panties in a bunch.

Carey has made it exteremly fair for almost all the charactetrs.
Namely, Iceman. Bobby really did his thing and I'm proud.
He's one of the underdogs like Rogue. His true potential never
used the right way. Carey has plans for Rogue. From the looks
of things he plans to tone down her whining by a lot and bring
back some of that bad ass attitude Rogue used to have
while having Carol's powers. I'm all over the team evolving
but don't slit your wrist everytime Rogue gets a cover
or gets the spotlight. And let's not even start with the fact
that they depicted her horribly in the movies

Give Rogue a chance. She's been handling things pretty well lately.


P.S. You'll have a hard time agreeing with this post if you are Can

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

You're funny. You will call on things to prove a point, but not really say anything at all. What do psycologists/fighter/martial artists have to say about "short fuses"?

What do you *think* they'll say??? It's a BAD thing.

Christ, that would be me telling jumping off a 20 stories building is BAD. You're right, hon, I don't know exactly *how* you body would shatter/break/twist on impact and just can't be bothered to calculate at exact what speed it'll hit the ground.

Common sense, hon. Figures a Rogue wouldn't aknowledge that. t:

So the subtext shows that Rogue is an uber-leader, star of Carey's X-Men, but you can't prove it with examples?

Did you even READ Supernovas??? That was the OBVIOUS POINT of the whole arc. How could anyone have possibly missed that?

And for the record, the point of the last two arcs was to shove down tragedy down her throat and build up the angst.

That you are not subtle?

No, that you wouldn't get subtext in a comic book if it bit you in the a$$ 50 times. And not *getting* that I was painfully obviously refering to the subtext of the book doesn't exactly your case. t:

You have yet to prove anything. Again, all you keep saying is you don't like Rogue and since Carey is a Rogue fan you don't like him cause he is incapable of being a fair and solid writer. I disagree with you and given proof, you give obtuse answers and say they are facts. Maybe your dislike of the character is clouding your judgment of the material. Carey is a decent writer, sure he has big ideas that he doesn't always pull together in the end. But the issues are entertaining and his characters all get fair play. Possibly why he is doing so well right now.

Whenever did I say *ANY* of those things?

All I said was:

- he has a ***** for Rogue. Which he totally does. He said she's one his favs and so far the arcs have been custom-made )big picture and plot-wise) for her.
- other people should've been leaders: ask anyone ONE year ago if Rogue would've made sense as a leader. Not many would've said 'yes'.
- his crew makes no sense whatsoever: Rogue doesn't trust THREE of them. That's HALF of her subordinate. That kind of stuff belong in fanfic, not canon.

Wait, since when is being a Mary-Sue=Mental Instability?

No, I meant arbitrarily GETTING OVER IT.

Now, she's in no way whatsoever an uber one, but do you really not get in what capacity Rogue would qualify?

Maybe, but your use of "irony" here is incorrect.

No, not really.

You aknowledged he buffes up/tweaks women to his liking and then used his writing in an argument as if it was the most sensical/unbiased thing ever.

Either that's irony or you being stubborn/clueless on purpose.

 

[Harlekin]

Just who should've been leader, Darth? Rogue is quite frankly the most logical choice on the team besides Cable.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

And why the heck not?????
Even if that were the case I'm sure every writer has had a shot
at writing their favorite character!! Why can't Rogue?
Her powers are screwed up! She's been extremely unstable for
years!!! I've been waiting for this moment for a long time
and I'll be damned if some hateful fans are gonna ruin it for us Rogue fans.
Let my girl get herself together then maybe your favorite hero
will get his chance up to bat, jeesh. She was knocked out
for like the past 2 issues, she 's back and you guys already wanna hate?
Get it together. I didn't know a mere female could get so many mens'
panties in a bunch.

Damnit, this isn't about GENDER.

Let Rogue have a sex-change operation and call her Raymond and we'd be saying the *exact* same thing.

You don't see us pushing for Wolvie/Juggernaut/Gambit to become team leaders, now do you?

Carey has plans for Rogue. From the looks
of things he plans to tone down her whining by a lot and bring
back some of that bad ass attitude Rogue used to have
while having Carol's powers.

Our point is that she's pretty much *defined* by her whining.

Her not whining would be like Gambit/Wolverine not being a$$holes, Bobby not being obnoxious (oh, wait. ), Cyke not having issues, Emma not being a b**ch, Hank being a complete moron, Peter cracking jokes every two sentences and Kitty kicking puppies.

I'm all over the team evolving
but don't slit your wrist everytime Rogue gets a cover
or gets the spotlight. [...] Give Rogue a chance. She's been handling things pretty well lately.

That's not the point. Spotlight is fine, but portray characters fairly, not in their BEST POSSIBLE LIGHT. Which is basically what Carey is doing.

And speaking of "evolving", Carey did all that in the very first issue of Supernova. It took ONE issue for Rogue to be all of sudden this uber-bad-a$$ leader and not whine anymore. Wait, WHAT?

Our point is that it wasn't so much an evolution as an arbitrary call. Supernovas serving that sole purpose from the get-go kinda proves our point.

And, damnit, we don't have a problem with her not whining AFTER everything Carey has in store for her has happened. But so much so soon for absolutely no reason? Are you kidding me?

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Just who should've been leader, Darth? Rogue is quite frankly the most logical choice on the team besides Cable.

Yeah, but half the team wouldn't make sense for any other leader. It's been custom-made so that only a nutcase could be in charge. That's hardly fair to use this against Sam/Bobby. t:

Had it been good people rather than betrayers-waiting-in-wings, Bobby or Sam would've been just fine.

Kinda convenient Cable would say he's just along for the ride rather than be an actual contender for the title, eh?

 

[Canemacar]

Just who should've been leader, Darth? Rogue is quite frankly the most logical choice on the team besides Cable.

Sam has been trained by the best of the X-men to lead. He's got a lot of experience as well. Bobby would also be a better choice by virtue of the fact that he has a cool head and can take good advice from people who know better.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Darth, I'm starting to become convinced that bns is an alter ego for Tee21 t: ...

Both refuse to even acknowledge any points you try to make against the characters in question, and always fall back upon the classic "Well, I don't think that proves anything!" response.

Conspiracy, I say!

I gotta love how we do *NOTHING BUT* make points and they go saying 'but that's not a point'. Wait, what? t:

Oh, and I was rather thinking Soul Twin Sister. t:

 

[Harlekin]

I'm not sure I've discussed Sam here in the X-Men thread, either way, he's too young right now to lead a team full of people that are older than him. Bobby might have the cooler head (although that's not even necessarily true, he's shown quite a recklessness in his day), but he doesn't command the respect of the others on the team like Rogue would and does.

And yes, the team is custom made. Any team is. Don't you think Astonishing/Uncanny/X-Treme etc. weren't put together in such a manner that only one character was logical as leader, or to create maximum conflict? Rogue's the best choice for this ragtag team.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Rogue's the best choice for this ragtag team.

Yeah, but other teams are made up of actual good guys.

When one brings in untrustworthy BAD GUYS into a team just for the hell of giving their leader street cred, there just *might* be something to it. t: