Age of Ultron The Official Scarlet Witch Thread

[Just_Human]

I actually want the gothy look like in X-Men Evolution.

Yes thats what I posted a few months ago.

A mix Evolution/hippie/gipsy/emo look

I immediately imagined Olsen oulling that look off - first look that came to mind.

Also, remember Willow and her gf (also witches) in Buffy (Whedon), with their emo look

 

[Loki882]

Yes thats what I posted a few months ago.

A mix Evolution/hippie/gipsy/emo look

I immediately imagined Olsen oulling that look off - first look that came to mind.

Also, remember Willow and her gf (also witches) in Buffy (Whedon), with their emo look

\
Actually no, I don't remember that because neither Willow or Tara looked at all "emo." Neither did Kennedy (Willow's second GF in season 7) for that matter.

 

[Hawkingbird]

I really don't want any tension between her and Widow. It will be so annoying if there's this sense of competition to be "top female". I want them to get along and work well together.

 

[terry78]

Women getting along? That is just madness.

 

[Hawkingbird]

Women getting along? That is just madness.

[YT]Sg-wtsocxHY[/YT]

 

[Silvermoth]

Do any of the avengers really get along though, male or female? The only exception is Bruce and tony and that's because they're setting up the hulk buster, world war z thing and hawkeye/black widow but we all know that won't last.

I reckon wanda would be really shy of the widow and the widow would be very wary of wanda...and for some very good reasons

 

[Just_Human]

\
Actually no, I don't remember that because neither Willow or Tara looked at all "emo." Neither did Kennedy (Willow's second GF in season 7) for that matter.

I thought they looked emo

No all emo with the vampire look, but still emo

 

[cherokeesam]

Do any of the avengers really get along though, male or female? The only exception is Bruce and tony and that's because they're setting up the hulk buster, world war z thing and hawkeye/black widow but we all know that won't last.

I reckon wanda would be really shy of the widow and the widow would be very wary of wanda...and for some very good reasons

I think there's enough of a (kayfabe) age difference between MCU Natasha and Wanda to make a jealous catfight unlikely. There's a good chance that Wanda & Pietro will be portrayed as teenagers (since their respective actors almost exclusively play those), so it'd look pretty petty for a 30-ish Natasha to start giving the stink-eye to a little girl. There'll be plenty of reasons for the team to mistrust the twins in general because of their relationship with HYDRA and Von Strucker (who's probably their father), but that's a factional dispute, not a personal one.

 

[Loki882]

Hawkeye and Black Widow also get along really well. And no, Strucker should not be their father, that'd be stupid and pointless. He can just be their boss/mentor.

 

[cherokeesam]

Hawkeye and Black Widow also get along really well. And no, Strucker should not be their father, that'd be stupid and pointless. He can just be their boss/mentor.

You may not like the angle, but what would make it "stupid and pointless?" Creating a family connection creates more drama. Having the twins be genetic experiments manipulated by their own dad, for purposes of master-race ubermenschen, is a lot more of a hook than HYDRA scrounging up two random gypsies to try to turn into supervillains.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

There are plenty of other ways to make them engaging. It's not some either/or situation with "random hired gypsies" on one end and the Strucker angle on the other.

 

[Silvermoth]

Even though I really wish they could go with the magneto angle I understand why they can't and I would prefer Cherokeesam's idea for the reason he outlined.

Hopefully it doesn't bounce into the comics though when the film takes off

 

[cherokeesam]

There are plenty of other ways to make them engaging. It's not some either/or situation with "random hired gypsies" on one end and the Strucker angle on the other.

I'm open to suggestions. That's why I asked. How would *you* associate Wanda & Pietro with Von Strucker and HYDRA?

 

[Just_Human]

Well, like SHIELD has "hired" freaks/super heroes, I think HYDRA has done the same with the Maximoffs

 

[Xeno]

You may not like the angle, but what would make it "stupid and pointless?" Creating a family connection creates more drama. Having the twins be genetic experiments manipulated by their own dad, for purposes of master-race ubermenschen, is a lot more of a hook than HYDRA scrounging up two random gypsies to try to turn into supervillains.

This idea is problematic to me because it totally erases and in fact debases the twins' comic book origin as the children of Jewish and Romany parents, two ethnic groups that were exterminated as part of the Nazis' "Final Solution." altering their origin so that they are not only not the children of a Romany mother and Jewish father but are in fact the products of eugenics experiments conducted by an arch Nazi with a racist and genocidal philosophy is morally repugnant. It would be akin to adapting a book with Jewish characters and transforming them into neo-nazi skinheads on screen.

Making Wanda and Pietro mere pawns of Strucker's would be far preferable to turning them into a creation of Nazi/HYDRA eugenics. Because of course everyone knows that the Nazi's devotion to eugenics was used to justify their extermination of millions of Untermenschen, including Jews, Romany people, the disabled, gays and the mentally ill. Strucker would never adopt children of such an undesirable ancestry but he definitely would enslave them, torment them and use them as weapons, exactly as Magneto did when Wanda & Pietro first appeared in the comics. This would leave the Maximoffs' ethnic heritage intact instead of changing it in the most objectionable way imaginable.

 

[cherokeesam]

This idea is problematic to me because it totally erases and in fact debases the twins' comic book origin as the children of Jewish and Romany parents, two ethnic groups that were exterminated as part of the Nazis' "Final Solution." altering their origin so that they are not only not the children of a Romany mother and Jewish father but are in fact the products of eugenics experiments conducted by an arch Nazi with a racist and genocidal philosophy is morally repugnant. It would be akin to adapting a book with Jewish characters and transforming them into neo-nazi skinheads on screen.

Making Wanda and Pietro mere pawns of Strucker's would be far preferable to turning them into a creation of Nazi/HYDRA eugenics. Because of course everyone knows that the Nazi's devotion to eugenics was used to justify their extermination of millions of Untermenschen, including Jews, Romany people, the disabled, gays and the mentally ill. Strucker would never adopt children of such an undesirable ancestry but he definitely would enslave them, torment them and use them as weapons, exactly as Magneto did when Wanda & Pietro first appeared in the comics. This would leave the Maximoffs' ethnic heritage intact instead of changing it in the most objectionable way imaginable.

I don't disagree with your assessment of the politics at play, but it's not something that Marvel/Disney is likely to focus on one way or another. Wanda & Pietro's heritage isn't nearly as big a deal in the comics as Holocaust survivor Magneto's; and the case has been made more than once that turning a Jew from the concentration camps into an iconic villain and giving him a genocidal, master race ideology of his own isn't necessarily creating a role model for Judaism. It's a lot easier to give someone with that mindset a basic neo-Nazi background, rather than turn the tables and make a survivor of the death camps just as evil as his captors.

 

[ctsketch]

I thought they looked emo

No all emo with the vampire look, but still emo

they didn't look emo at all

 

[Loki882]

Here's an idea. Strucker found them when they were younger after their real father wasn't around. He raised and trained them from a young age, hence their loyalty to him. That works fine.

 

[cherokeesam]

Here's an idea. Strucker found them when they were younger after their real father wasn't around. He raised and trained them from a young age, hence their loyalty to him. That works fine.

You're creating an unnecessary mystery dad which won't have a satisfying payoff. Every fanboy will know full well who "the real father" is, but there's no way in hell we get Magneto. So you create a mystery parent who heartlessly abandoned his children to a gang of international terrorists, and then leave the fans trying to guess what kind of ******* would do such a thing...? Then you try to have the audience believe that these poor kids would be *loyal* to the evil leader of said terrorist gang, and would be somehow *grateful* that he turned them into supervillains?

That's a lot to ask of an audience. Rather than create surrogate one-off characters, who may or may not even appear in this movie, it's a lot simpler to tell the same story with *one* character playing both the role of abusive father *and* international terrorist leader bent on genocide and hatred, and make the story a more positive one about the kids escaping from their evil father to become true superheroes.

 

[Xeno]

Here's an idea. Strucker found them when they were younger after their real father wasn't around. He raised and trained them from a young age, hence their loyalty to him. That works fine.

It would be preferable for Strucker and HYDRA to operate as a sort of anti-SHIELD in that the villainous organization also seeks out "gifted" people, but with the goal of exploiting or enslaving them. The ludicrously-named "Centipede" in Agents of SHIELD is essentially doing this. (Why they called it Centipede* instead of using HYDRA baffles me.) It would make sense if the ex-Nazi's scouts heard of these gifted children and captured them so that he could force them to commit acts of terrorism for HYDRA. Strucker would be a cruel master rather than some sort of pseudo-father figure to the twins. That would be a good analogue to the way Magneto treated Wanda & Pietro in the early days.


* Centipede motto: "Cut off our ass and we'll grow another!"

 

[cherokeesam]

It would be preferable for Strucker and HYDRA to operate as a sort of anti-SHIELD in that the villainous organization also seeks out "gifted" people, but with the goal of exploiting or enslaving them. The ludicrously-named "Centipede" in Agents of SHIELD is essentially doing this. (Why they called it Centipede* instead of using HYDRA baffles me.) It would make sense if the ex-Nazi's scouts heard of these gifted children and captured them so that he could force them to commit acts of terrorism for HYDRA. Strucker would be a cruel master rather than some sort of pseudo-father figure to the twins. That would be a good analogue to the way Magneto treated Wanda & Pietro in the early days.


* Centipede motto: "Cut off our ass and we'll grow another!"

Again: you're creating a mystery that dwarfs the actual story and appeal of the characters. Instead of focusing on Wanda & Pietro's personalities and their growth and interaction with both HYDRA and The Avengers, audiences will instead be asking, "Who's the daddy? And how did these guys get those kinds of powers?"

With Magneto von Strucker, both questions are already intrinsically answered. Joss is free to concentrate on the character building he's far more interested in.

 

[AvengerPA]

Their mystery father should be revealed to be Thanos in a post-credits sequence. This will shock anyone who thinks their father is Magneto.

Another thought. Their father is Tony Stark!

 

[Just_Human]

they didn't look emo at all

I think they did

 

[Xeno]

Again: you're creating a mystery that dwarfs the actual story and appeal of the characters. Instead of focusing on Wanda & Pietro's personalities and their growth and interaction with both HYDRA and The Avengers, audiences will instead be asking, "Who's the daddy? And how did these guys get those kinds of powers?"

With Magneto von Strucker, both questions are already intrinsically answered. Joss is free to concentrate on the character building he's far more interested in.

It's only going to be a mystery to fans who will insist on obsessing over Magneto. For everyone else in the audience the question of Wanda & Pietro's exact parentage will be as unimportant as worrying over Steve Rogers' parents, or Clint Barton's, or those of any other adult Avenger who isn't the scion of Asgardian royalty or Jazz Age billionaires. Whedon could simply explain that the twins were orphaned young and bounced from home to home without ever addressing their parentage in a more specific manner. Their mother died in childbirth (a la Madeline Joyce Frank) and their father was unknown or ran off (like Bob Frank). Boom! End of mystery.

 

[cherokeesam]

It's only going to be a mystery to fans who will insist on obsessing over Magneto. For everyone else in the audience the question of Wanda & Pietro's exact parentage will be as unimportant as worrying over Steve Rogers' parents, or Clint Barton's, or those of any other adult Avenger who isn't the scion of Asgardian royalty or Jazz Age billionaires. Whedon could simply explain that the twins were orphaned young and bounced from home to home without ever addressing their parentage in a more specific manner. Their mother died in childbirth (a la Madeline Joyce Frank) and their father was unknown or ran off (like Bob Frank). Boom! End of mystery.

That's all well and good; but you've got two orphans with unexplained superpowers ---- one who runs faster than a fighter jet in flight, and the other who's a witch. Despite this being set in an evolving superhero universe, audiences will still wonder who, how, what, where, when and why. They're not going to accept "they were born this way."