Apocalypse The Official Sophie Turner/Jean Grey Thread - Part 2

[Guard82]

Sophie Turner was so awesome and wonderful in this movie as Jean. Her performances were very touching and likable. Can't wait to watch her again when I see the movie again.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

Same here. Olivia's Psylocke and everyone else.

 

[Havok83]

[/B]With the Phoenix story, it absolutely does. Everything Xavier, Jean and Wolverine fails in that film ( I got a advanced copy of the novel and reviewed it early here many years ago and said exactly this).


I think the cure story works well.

I thought that was the worst part of the film. It was boring and it was primarily told through Rogue's perspective which made it worse bc it was a horrible development for her IMO. As poorly as they handled Dark Phoenix, I found that storyline more entertaining and at least gave us great action sequences and special effects. I dont think the cure story really added much to the film. I used to think if they had cut it, it would have possibly made it stronger

 

[GuestStar2004]

I used to think if they had cut it, it would have possibly made it stronger

If you cut the cure plot then no one else would have anything to do, wolverine pretty much was dealing with jean and magneto

 

[Havok83]

If you cut the cure plot then no one else would have anything to do, wolverine pretty much was dealing with jean and magneto

Well that would be the point of handling the film differently. Have more people involved with plot. Storm and Beast should have been utilized more with her. Phoenix was poorly developed and that was partly bc they had those two big storylines in the film.

 

[fallenAngel]

I think combining them was a bit much. The cure plot had potential that wasn't developed because of the Phoenix stuff.

I wish Cyclops had just gone on sabbatical and they could have had Rogue be front and center for the cure story line, have her in conflict with Storm etc.

Or, they should have just done Hellfire/Phoenix.

I was watching GoT the other day and I now actually associate Sophie more with Jean than Sansa. I liked her better in X-men, possibly because the character is more likable. (And to be fair, I don't have anything against Sansa)

 

[Mad Ones]

Both are great stories but they are so unrelated, I don't know how anyone thought that could work.

 

[ApophènX]

I thought that was the worst part of the film. It was boring and it was primarily told through Rogue's perspective which made it worse bc it was a horrible development for her IMO. As poorly as they handled Dark Phoenix, I found that storyline more entertaining and at least gave us great action sequences and special effects. I dont think the cure story really added much to the film. I used to think if they had cut it, it would have possibly made it stronger

Having a cure was a response to the Phoenix in a way, i mean Jean really looked bipolar. Mutation can be seen as mental illness. Having a cure was still good righting imo they just did not work well with it.

XMA did the opposite, you have a mutant that can enhance power. They both watch TV though.

 

[DACrowe]

[/B]With the Phoenix story, it absolutely does. Everything Xavier, Jean and Wolverine fails in that film ( I got a advanced copy of the novel and reviewed it early here many years ago and said exactly this).


I think the cure story works well.

I never even liked the cure story because it confused the message. The cure is both a metaphor for those who try to cure homosexuality (which is wrong because there is nothing to cure)... and also something people have the right to decide for by themselves, like a woman's right to choose.

It mixes its metaphors and is ultimately pointless.

 

[Havok83]

Both are great stories but they are so unrelated, I don't know how anyone thought that could work.

and that was the problem. Both were underdeveloped and ended up not living up to either's potential. The two being unrelated didnt help and if they were going to feature two comic stories, they should have done two that had a common thread

Having a cure was a response to the Phoenix in a way, i mean Jean really looked bipolar. Mutation can be seen as mental illness. Having a cure was still good righting imo they just did not work well with it.

XMA did the opposite, you have a mutant that can enhance power. They both watch TV though.

TLS failed to make that connection though. I cant recall but did they even try to use the cure as a means to neutralize Jean?

 

[Mad Ones]

I never even liked the cure story because it confused the message. The cure is both a metaphor for those who try to cure homosexuality (which is wrong because there is nothing to cure)... and also something people have the right to decide for by themselves, like a woman's right to choose.

It mixes its metaphors and is ultimately pointless.

While I quite like "Gifted" I never thought about the woman's right to choose parallel. I think that angle is much less present in the comic, where the X-men are strongly against the cure. It's much more about problematic pathology. Beast considers it but Wolverine attacks him over it. Hmm mixing metaphors is something I'll keep thinking about.

 

[Ruth Fisher]

As much as I adore Famke, if you're gonna act like that at a con, you might as well not do photo ops

That was her first con so maybe she felt weird. Idk, some people do look sweaty. I believe she is going to the London Film & Comic con at the end of July next so who knows. She may let the common people touch her then.


Anyway, I HATED the cure storyline in The Last Stand. It was so boring. They should have just focused on The Dark Phoenix storyline and worked with that. There was more than enough source material to carry a whole movie with that one story.

 

[DACrowe]

While I quite like "Gifted" I never thought about the woman's right to choose parallel. I think that angle is much less present in the comic, where the X-men are strongly against the cure. It's much more about problematic pathology. Beast considers it but Wolverine attacks him over it. Hmm mixing metaphors is something I'll keep thinking about.

Oh yes, the Whedon version is fine. I was talking specifically about that movie.

 

[Mad Ones]

Oh yes, the Whedon version is fine. I was talking specifically about that movie.

Ohhh, agreed! How they framed Rogue's relationship with the cure definitely backs your mixed metaphor argument. Great way to put it.

 

[psylockolussus]

I did like when Beast gave Magneto the cure.

 

[DavidHaller]

I did like when Beast gave Magneto the cure.

the biggest idiocy of the movie (besides letting Rogue take the cure!!!"Hey kids, it is totally ok if you don't want to be gay or black anymore, just take the cure!"): so why did the X-Men decide to kill Jean Grey/Phoenix instead of trying to cure her first?!?! lol seriously guys? She said "save me" Wolverine, not kill me with your big phallic claws because there is no other alternative lying around everywhere!

p.s. damn, they could have given us badass Rogue easily in third act: "I couldn't to do. Now everbody touches me!"

 

[ApophènX]

Wolverine like to stab girl in the stomach. Story repeats itself until ... apocalypso

 

[GuestStar2004]

Well wolverine isn't that smart is he ;p

Jean: Save me!
Wolverine: I love you *stabs jean*
Jean: You idiot i meant with the cure! *dies*
Wolverine: oh.. eh... *****

 

[ApophènX]

Making plans is Scott part...ha he is dead...ok

Wolverin stab girls in X1, X2, LS and DoFP but in Apocalypse he get the needles out of his stopach after Jean cure him

I think i'm gonna rewatch Last Stand and maybe i'll change my mind about it, partly...

 

[DavidHaller]

Making plans is Scott part...ha he is dead...ok

Wolverin stab girls in X1, X2, LS and DoFP but in Apocalypse he get the needles out of his stopach after Jean cure him

I think i'm gonna rewatch Last Stand and maybe i'll change my mind about it, partly...

for me personally X3 (still a bad movie!) got a lot better because of "The Wolverine" and "X-Men: Apocalpyse": Jean's story got a lot more depth because of these two movies in retrospective. I said it before, I think that Jean's story is maybe one of the most complex in the entire franchise by now.

I really love how Xavier is not controlling her anymore and how "X-Men: Apocalypse" relates directly to X3 and its very misogynistic approach. Jean rises from being a victim of Xavier's control to become a strong young woman in control of herself. It was actually Wolverine in "Days of Future Past" who corrected this wrong and saved not only the entire future but particularly the life of the woman he loved. Great stuff and very subtly told.

p.s.
I just realized that Xavier actually used his powers on Jean in a very similar way like a medical cure...but X3 was unfortunately never able to discuss parallels between both plots directly...

 

[Mad Ones]

Jean had no story in The Wolverine. She wasn't even Jean. Just Wolverine's weird fantasy/nightmare of her. I would have liked that movie more if they didn't reduce Jean to build Wolverine (same problem as X3).

X3 is a lazy movie that relies on problematic tropes. Wish I could burn every copy.

 

[DavidHaller]

Jean had no story in The Wolverine. She wasn't even Jean. Just Wolverine's weird fantasy/nightmare of her. I would have liked that movie more if they didn't reduce Jean to build Wolverine (same problem as X3).

X3 is a lazy movie that relies on problematic tropes. Wish I could burn every copy.

Of course X3 was extremely misognynistic. Nobody says something else.

But "X-Men: Apocalypse" tried to correct this ******** and made Jean a very compelling character in her own right who is fully in control!

Singer responded to X3 with "X-Men Apocalpyse" and corrected the sexist ******** Xavier has done in a different timeline! (under Ratner)

Wolverine's guilt about Jean's death was central to "The Wolverine" and he even made sure to save her life in "Days of Future Past". I appreciate this storyline and emotion although they come from a man. (urgh!)

 

[ApophènX]

for me personally X3 (still a bad movie!) got a lot better because of "The Wolverine" and "X-Men: Apocalpyse": Jean's story got a lot more depth because of these two movies in retrospective. I said it before, I think that Jean's story is maybe one of the most complex in the entire franchise by now.

I really love how Xavier is not controlling her anymore and how "X-Men: Apocalypse" relates directly to X3 and its very misogynistic approach. Jean rises from being a victim of Xavier's control to become a strong young woman in control of herself. It was actually Wolverine in "Days of Future Past" who corrected this wrong and saved not only the entire future but particularly the life of the woman he loved. Great stuff and very subtly told.

p.s.
I just realized that Xavier actually used his powers on Jean in a very similar way like a medical cure...but X3 was unfortunately never able to discuss parallels between both plots directly...

It is great that a movie can heal it's predecessor's mistakes. The saga can be experience as whole and it brings out great emotions.

The cure child in X3 is the opposite of Apocalypse, one enhance power, the other supress it. Another parallel is the transfer of soul to another body.

 

[DavidHaller]

It is great that a movie can heal it's predecessor's mistakes. The saga can be experience as whole and it brings out great emotions.

The cure child in X3 is the opposite of Apocalypse, one enhance power, the other supress it. Another parallel is the transfer of soul to another body.

wow, that's great, you are right. Never thought about this.

"X-Men: Apocalypse" is really like the anti-X3 in many ways.

"The Last Stand" is grounded in an heteronormative assimilative logic while "X-Men: Apocalypse" is like a queer counter-image: embracing difference vs. supressing difference.

 

[ApophènX]

wow, that's great, you are right. Never thought about this.

"X-Men: Apocalypse" is really like the anti-X3 in many ways.

"The Last Stand" is grounded in an heteronormative assimilative logic while "X-Men: Apocalypse" is like a queer counter-image: embracing difference vs. supressing difference.

yeah i really got that too. All the people that seemed different in X3 were bad guys. And at the end it is the guy who go to school that ends happy, and good guy stuff. meh

I think they really tried that in XMA to embrace difference, in the way the mood of the films evolve as well, or the characters.