The Official Superman Thread

[Frankenmation]

I was going to give this arc one more chance, but I've changed my mind, I'm not bothering with it any more. Watching grass grow would be more entertaining.

Wake me up in 2025 when JMS is done with this stupid run.

 

[Drz]

Okay so this week's issue had Superman tell Batman -- Batman -- that he doesn't deal enough with street-level crime. He specifically cites thugs with guns and the mafia as examples.

It depends really. Both Bruce and Dick are constantly fightning the more wackier villains, but with so many comic titles you do got abit of mobsters here and there, but really i like how Morrison explained that crime is art in Gotham and thus Batman is fightning the freaks more all the time.

Because you can't really compare Riddler, Mr. Freeze, Joker, Two-Face and so on with normals treet-level criminals, which the art demonstrated. I mean yeha Batman *does* fight street criminals too, thanks to having so many titles all over the comic stores, but i think JMS had a point. Especially when you consider what Batman has gone againts in Morrison's run, you can see there aint many "normal" criminals out there. Batman wiped those out, but the Black Glove increased the crime rate with ease.

 

[Mystirious]

I was going to give this arc one more chance, but I've changed my mind, I'm not bothering with it any more. Watching grass grow would be more entertaining.

Wake me up in 2025 when JMS is done with this stupid run.

I have dropped this comic book

Until Grounded is over I am only going to buy the Action Comics Superman comic book

GTFO, are you serious? Oh man...

Yep :

 

[BrianWilly]

It depends really. Both Bruce and Dick are constantly fightning the more wackier villains, but with so many comic titles you do got abit of mobsters here and there, but really i like how Morrison explained that crime is art in Gotham and thus Batman is fightning the freaks more all the time.

Because you can't really compare Riddler, Mr. Freeze, Joker, Two-Face and so on with normals treet-level criminals, which the art demonstrated. I mean yeha Batman *does* fight street criminals too, thanks to having so many titles all over the comic stores, but i think JMS had a point. Especially when you consider what Batman has gone againts in Morrison's run, you can see there aint many "normal" criminals out there. Batman wiped those out, but the Black Glove increased the crime rate with ease.

Oh god, don't hurt yourself bending over backwards trying to justify this or anything.

He has no "point." Even if there is very little "normal" crime in Gotham -- an very odd thing to claim that goes against what tons of books have shown -- and the majority is in fact "costumed" crime, then people like Batman and Robin would be helping the exact same amount of people every night anyway whether they fought normal crime or costumed crime, unless the Joker specifically targets a different demographic of people than Joe Chill! It doesn't matter if there's, what, 75% psychos vs 25% normal thugs in a city, or vice versa, or whatever, if Batman's team is out there doing whatever they can to stop all of it, they're helping to prevent the exact same amount of people from going through what they went through! And if there "aint many 'normal' criminals" in their city to begin with, then...great? What's the point of harping on Batman for not preventing a problem which isn't that big to begin with? For Superman to throw Dick and Bruce's childhood trauma around like he's proving some kind of incredible "point"...no. Just no. From the man who brought us "Reed Richards: McCarthyist" indeed.

Not to mention, Superman's ******ed rhetoric ignores the very existence of police officers. Of course it's not as cut-down and dry as "police handles all normal crime, superheroes handle all superhuman crime" but if you're gonna try and analyze how a crimefighter's time could be best spent then, yes, a superhero's time would be best used on handling things that the police isn't equipped to handle, freeing up the regular cop's time for stopping regular crime.

 

[Mystirious]

I hope next issue someone slaps Bruce for spending his time fighting Joker instead of curing their husbands tumour with his cancer repellant Bat spray

 

[Drz]

He has no "point." Even if there is very little "normal" crime in Gotham -- an very odd thing to claim that goes against what tons of books have shown -- and the majority is in fact "costumed" crime, then people like Batman and Robin would be helping the exact same amount of people every night anyway whether they fought normal crime or costumed crime, unless the Joker specifically targets a different demographic of people than Joe Chill!

That always depends what the Joker is after. Is he trying to trademark fish or is he just wreaking chaos to get Batman's attention? Also lets remember that Joe Chill was just a hired gun for a bigger evil organization, the Black Glove.

Not to mention, Superman's ******ed rhetoric ignores the very existence of police officers.

And you ignore the very existence of the fact that Gotham's police are pretty much corrupt outside the handful of Gordon's own personal favorites.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Okay so this week's issue had Superman tell Batman -- Batman -- that he doesn't deal enough with street-level crime. He specifically cites thugs with guns and the mafia as examples.

This is ****ing worse than a woman telling Superman to cure cancer.

I'm surprised that Dick basically insulted Clark the same way Bruce would have in this stupid walkabout around the USA . Especially since Dick looks up to Superman and wouldn't dare uses the same kind of tactis as Bruce .

And where the hell does Clark get off telling The Dark Knight that he doesn't deal enough with street-level crime. Is he for real Batman has always and will continue to fight street crime as well as Universal crimes.

 

[Charlie Boy]

What did Dick say to Supes?

 

[The Caped Knight]

What did Dick say to Supes?

Spoiler

Both the art and dialogue doesn't look or sound like Dick , This looks more like Bruce it even sounds like him.

 

[Charlie Boy]

That doesn't sound like Dick. Clark's quite self-righteous in those panels, even for him.

 

[darknight7]

Wow I really like the art...

too bad it's a silly story. Superman Grounded...blah! "He leaps tall buildings in a-- oh wait, no he doesn't do that anymore"

--dk7

 

[Tron Bonne]

Haha, wow, that's even worse than I was expecting. I am literally in awe at how awful that truly is. That's right up there with 'The last time you inspired someone was when you were dead, Clark' thing from Infinite Crisis. It's almost like JMS is out to turn Superman into Mr. A or something, jeez.

I can at least agree with what Kurosawa said earlier, JMS' heart is in the right place, but this is probably the worst possible way I can think of to convey that. I was thinking of jumping onto JMS' run after he got finished dicking around with this, but stuff like this, makes me want to just skip it all together.

 

[Mystirious]

Spoiler

.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I hope next issue someone slaps Bruce for spending his time fighting Joker instead of curing their husbands tumour with his cancer repellant Bat spray

I think that if people actually took the time to actually understand that scene, they wouldn't criticize it as simply Superman blaming himself for things that clearly are not his fault.

 

[hippie_hunter]

That doesn't sound like Dick. Clark's quite self-righteous in those panels, even for him.

I have to agree with IGN's review that it's pretty damn obvious that JMS wrote that scene as if Clark was talking to Bruce, not Dick.

First of all, Dick isn't that tall. Bruce is tall enough to see Clark eye to eye, but Dick is my height. He would have to look up a little bit to talk to Superman. Second, that dialog and characterization feels nothing at all like Dick. Dick would never talk to Superman like that and he isn't as aristocratic and thuggish as Bruce is.

 

[Tron Bonne]

I think that if people actually took the time to actually understand that scene, they wouldn't criticize it as simply Superman blaming himself for things that clearly are not his fault.

Well, I guess blaming people for being stupid is at least a little better than blaming editorial for all of JMS' faults...

 

[BrianWilly]

Christ, I'd forgotten that JMS made Dick say, up-front, "The average guy isn't our problem." Such flagrant ****ing character assassination.

That always depends what the Joker is after. Is he trying to trademark fish or is he just wreaking chaos to get Batman's attention? Also lets remember that Joe Chill was just a hired gun for a bigger evil organization, the Black Glove.

I'm really not sure what you're saying here; are you downplaying the Joker's threat in order to make common criminals seem more dangerous? We've never in post-Crisis seen Batman waste his time tailing the Joker all day only for it to end up being some kind of harmless gag in the end. The Joker is incredibly dangerous to "the average guy" (ugh) as are all of Batman's regular enemies. He wouldn't waste his time on them otherwise; it's completely ridiculous to think that. Whether Batman spends time saving lives from the Joker or from common criminals, he's still spending his time saving lives.

And what does Joe Chill being employed by the Black Glove have to do with anything? Doesn't that just prove that, by taking on organizations like the Black Glove, Batman is in fact helping to stop common criminals like Chill anyway? Or are you saying Batman doesn't fight criminal organizations either?

 

[Motown Marvel]

I am literally in awe at how awful that truly is. That's right up there with 'The last time you inspired someone was when you were dead, Clark' thing from Infinite Crisis.

whatever dude, that was awesome.

i remember when i was reading that issue, i was outside, and AS SOON as i read that line a guy in passing on his cell phone went "AW SNAP!".

 

[BrianWilly]

I liked that one because, true or not, it was Batman being his absolute most dickish and saying the single most dickish thing he could say to his friend that would hurt him the absolute most at that one single moment. We all know what to say to people close to us that would hurt them far more than what a stranger might say to them. To me, the moment wasn't showing that Batman didn't know Superman very well...quite the opposite, in fact. And it hurts Superman so much more than if some random mofo down the street said the exact same thing, because he actually does trust Batman's judgment as a friend, even in that moment.

Compared to this, which is just flat-out nonsensical from every single angle. It's like if someone said to Blade "Hey you don't fight enough vampires" and he's like "Hey vampires aren't my problem!"

 

[Tron Bonne]

Well, I don't really care much for Batman to be the biggest dick in the world or whatever. That, and the line itself was pretty ludicrous I thought, something I'd imagine a ten year old would write who thought 'Batman rules, Superman drools' or something, but whatever, apparently a lot of people liked it.

Compared to this, which is just flat-out nonsensical from every single angle. It's like if someone said to Blade "Hey you don't fight enough vampires" and he's like "Hey vampires aren't my problem!"

If they ever do more Nextwave stuff, this needs to be in it

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

I liked that one because, true or not, it was Batman being his absolute most dickish and saying the single most dickish thing he could say to his friend that would hurt him the absolute most at that one single moment. We all know what to say to people close to us that would hurt them far more than what a stranger might say to them. To me, the moment wasn't showing that Batman didn't know Superman very well...quite the opposite, in fact. And it hurts Superman so much more than if some random mofo down the street said the exact same thing, because he actually does trust Batman's judgment as a friend, even in that moment.

Compared to this, which is just flat-out nonsensical from every single angle. It's like if someone said to Blade "Hey you don't fight enough vampires" and he's like "Hey vampires aren't my problem!"

LMFAO

 

[storyteller]

I wish people would stop responding " hey superman can fly so why does he walk" as a reason for hating the story. The point isn't about grounding Supermans powers, its about him taking to time to talk to people. As a Superman fan I dislike how he hasn't done anything. He's not with the justice league, his other series is devoted to lex luthor, the other series has Superboy(Clark edition but you know its in the past so it doesn't matter. Its like Superboy(conner) without a real costume. Its crap!


I think Dick is the only comicbook character on Dc's side who is getting the job done.

 

[Tron Bonne]

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/dc-january-2011-solicitations-101018.html

Previews for Superman comics in January

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

I wish people would stop responding " hey superman can fly so why does he walk" as a reason for hating the story. The point isn't about grounding Supermans powers, its about him taking to time to talk to people. As a Superman fan I dislike how he hasn't done anything. He's not with the justice league, his other series is devoted to lex luthor, the other series has Superboy(Clark edition but you know its in the past so it doesn't matter. Its like Superboy(conner) without a real costume. Its crap!


I think Dick is the only comicbook character on Dc's side who is getting the job done.

My problem with grounded is that this arc doesn't need 12 issues to get its point across. At most it only needs 6 much like all of Johns arcs. That and the fact JMS has misrepresented us African-Americans in every single issue. I also hate the reason why he is on this walk. I mean all because some lady is upset over her husband dying over cancer he takes a walk. The reason why Superman has never tried to cure cancer was explained perfectly in For Tomorrow (great Superman story) so why disregard that explanation.

I also think the issue with Grounded for me is that Superman needs to spend some time with Lois and grave over his father. If you want to show a human side of Superman those things are perfect examples of showing that. I also don't really care to see him on this book because of what he did to Spider-man but that's another story.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the heavy handedness and length of this thing is the main issue I've heard against this arc as opposed to just him walking. That, and things like the Batman thing above and the fat nerd thing from before, just awful