BvS The Official Zack Snyder Directs Everything Thread - Part 2

[jmc]

I just meant, what did you mean when you said they should decide whether to "do what's best for everyone"? What is that supposed to be?

A situation that isn't this, where there's essentially no one is getting along any more. I personally don't like what that this series has brought about in the pop culture community, it's frankly not fun anymore to be a DC fan.

 

[flickchick85]

A situation that isn't this, where there's essentially no one is getting along any more. I personally don't like what that this series has brought about in the pop culture community, it's frankly not fun anymore to be a DC fan.

I agree, I just don't get what any of us are supposed to do about it. People are gonna like what they like. In general, we don't choose to like something, we just do.

 

[OdinSon]

Yeah, it seems like they had a hard enough time finding someone for the gig the first time around, so ditching Snyder and trying to find someone else right on the eve of production on JL probably didn't sound like an enticing prospect for anyone, especially so fresh in the wake of BvS's toxic reception. I'm sure they'll use JL's production time to start casting a net for possible replacements.

What are you expecting people to "do" exactly?

I think they should still delay JL1 and try to find another director. Delaying the movie will be far better than risking ruining the franchise by asking Snyder to direct it. There are many instances in which new directors where brought in to take over a franchise that was started by some other director. For example, Avengers, X-Men, Star Wars etc. I don't see why Warner Bros can't do the same thing. In fact that's precisely what they should do if they have any sense left in them. If I were head of Warner Bros, I wouldn't have hired Snyder to even direct MOS. I always saw him as a mediocre director at best.

 

[kguillou]

I think I see what jmc is trying to say, despite MoS' reception the hype and enthusiasm for BvS was uncannily through the roof. Every time we got a new peek at a costume this forum was all "ALL HAIL LORD SNYDER." Now this movie has virtually broken the fanbase and all of a sudden this has become the most vitriolic forum on SHH and you'd have to dig deep to find people who aren't after Snyder's head and thats including people who LIKED the movie.

At least when Fant4stic Four tanked, we all had a great time reveling in its epic failure together.

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

I think they should still delay JL1 and try to find another director. Delaying the movie will be far better than risking ruining the franchise by asking Snyder to direct it. There are many instances in which new directors where brought in to take over a franchise that was started by some other director. For example, Avengers, X-Men, Star Wars etc. I don't see why Warner Bros can't do the same thing. In fact that's precisely what they should do if they have any sense left in them. If I were head of Warner Bros, I wouldn't have hired Snyder to even direct MOS. I always saw him as a mediocre director at best.

Yeah and I can only imagine how taxing it is to do a huge blockbuster one after another. Dude needs a break, and we need a break from him.

 

[-Arya-]

A situation that isn't this, where there's essentially no one is getting along any more. I personally don't like what that this series has brought about in the pop culture community, it's frankly not fun anymore to be a DC fan.

It is quite depressing to be honest but all hope isn't lost. As long as SS and WW deliver, I'll be back on board despite a Snyder JL. I'm thinking longer term, Snyder will be done directing by next year and we won't have to worry about it anymore.

 

[MrsKent26]

I think I see what jmc is trying to say, despite MoS' reception the hype and enthusiasm for BvS was uncannily through the roof. Every time we got a new peek at a costume this forum was all "ALL HAIL LORD SNYDER." Now this movie has virtually broken the fanbase and all of a sudden this has become the most vitriolic forum on SHH and you'd have to dig deep to find people who aren't after Snyder's head and thats including people who LIKED the movie.

At least when Fant4stic Four tanked, we all had a great time reveling in its epic failure together.

The thing with BvS though (the frustrating thing) is that it wasn't a pure failure IMO (same for MOS, for that matter). Yes, it had glaring problems. But it also had some good (visuals, cast, some of the dialogue, first DC meeting of the heroes, some of the performances). That's why this place turns into such a quagmire; the movie contains both things worth bashing and things worth defending.

Wasted potential (MOS, BvS) hurts more than no potential (Fantastic 4, GL).

 

[MadVillainy]

Yeah and I can only imagine how taxing it is to do a huge blockbuster one after another. Dude needs a break, and we need a break from him.

Im not trying to be mean or everything but dude just looks tired, aged, and a lot more worn compared to 3 years ago with MoS.

 

[Jaxon]

It is quite depressing to be honest but all hope isn't lost. As long as SS and WW deliver, I'll be back on board despite a Snyder JL. I'm thinking longer term, Snyder will be done directing by next year and we won't have to worry about it anymore.

Snyder is executive producer on both is he not? I hope so, he has such a deep love for the source material and so much energy for the DCEU he needs to remain connected for the continuity.
I agree that after JL1 he hands off the director reigns but he needs to stay as Exec Prod on all the DCEU because he clearly has really "ballsy" thinking. To think that he'd have Superman kill, Batman kill, and Superman be killed within 2 movies is really gutsy. All power to him.

I for one get Sucker Punch as a female empowerment piece, so you now what corner I'm in.

 

[kguillou]

The thing with BvS though (the frustrating thing) is that it wasn't a pure failure IMO (same for MOS, for that matter). Yes, it had glaring problems. But it also had some good (visuals, cast, some of the dialogue, first DC meeting of the heroes, some of the performances). That's why this place turns into such a quagmire; the movie contains both things worth bashing and things worth defending.

Wasted potential (MOS, BvS) hurts more than no potential (Fantastic 4, GL).

Completely agreed. Every time I think about something that let me down in the film I think of something, like Wonder Woman's epic entrance for example, that just got me smiling cheek to cheek and it pretty much balances the scale. The movie is filled with beautiful moments, and also frustrating, head scratching ones and that makes it such a conundrum of a film.

 

[MadVillainy]

The thing with BvS though (the frustrating thing) is that it wasn't a pure failure IMO (same for MOS, for that matter). Yes, it had glaring problems. But it also had some good (visuals, cast, some of the dialogue, first DC meeting of the heroes, some of the performances). That's why this place turns into such a quagmire; the movie contains both things worth bashing and things worth defending.

Wasted potential (MOS, BvS) hurts more than no potential (Fantastic 4, GL).

I agree

Although not the last sentence. I might be taking what you wrote too literally, but I think GL and Fantastic 4 had a great amount of potential. Good cast, good directors, although i suppose it was clear by the first trailers that I wouldnt enjoy either

 

[flickchick85]

Yeah, GL is my textbook example of "wasted potential." But I get what MrsKent is saying - with that movie and F4, none of the potential really ended up on screen. With BvS, some of it did, but not enough, and that's the more frustrating part.

 

[MrsKent26]

I agree

Although not the last sentence. I might be taking what you wrote too literally, but I think GL and Fantastic 4 had a great amount of potential. Good cast, good directors, although i suppose it was clear by the first trailers that I wouldnt enjoy either

What I mean by that last sentence is that the latter two had nothing or very little going for them in the end. Pure failures, IMO. Flawed in every way. Whereas BvS/MOS had some successes (and therefore defenders) and some failures. Some of BvS's potential was realized. Not so much with the others.

 

[BatLobster]

It's just a very messy situation. Regardless of what we think, it's clear that Snyder's cast- Cavill, Affleck, Gadot, Mamoa, etc. they're all behind him, and that's without considering the hundreds of crew. Getting rid of him at this point would be like firing the coach that all the players are attached to midway through the season.

It just creates a very uncomfortable situation, not only for WB in a public perception sense, but also for whatever unlucky soul would have to step in to clean up this mess.

I think only smooth way for any type of transition to happen here would be for Snyder to voluntarily step down as director, pick his own replacement and give his blessing (*cough George Miller*) and stay on in a producing capacity. But slim to none chances of that happening.

DC fans just have to hope Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman are smashing successes right now. It they are, it will show that there is hope for the DCU beyond Snyder, who in all likelihood is only directing one more film in this universe. And it will generate some much needed-goodwill towards DC films.

But the pressure is really on for those films to deliver now, otherwise it's going to be a sad state of affairs by the time we get to Justice League.

 

[MadVillainy]

What I mean by that last sentence is that the latter two had nothing or very little going for them in the end. Pure failures, IMO. Flawed in every way. Whereas BvS/MOS had some successes (and therefore defenders) and some failures. Some of BvS's potential was realized. Not so much with the others.

Ah

As I thought, I misread your point. But I agree with you

 

[Doctor Jones]

I think it is/was too late for them to replace Snyder. I don't think they had any better recourse then to push forward and hopefully reign Snyder in.
But again, having a studio trying to reign in a director can severly hurt a film too.

I don't know... they pushed BVS back to "make a better movie." My God. Aside from what the hell that could have been, if they intend to not do anything about this and stick with what they already have, that's just another warning sign. They don't know what the **** they're doing.

It's hurtful for WB, because WB doesn't seem to understand these characters either. They'll ask Snyder to make it more fun. Well, Snyder doesn't seem to like fun or his idea of fun isn't the same as what WB may want of him. Fun is such a subjective word, especially for something like this, things will get more confusing.

I just don't see why they can't push this way back and get a replacement and pull their **** together. What, are they worried that it looks bad? That's ********, because it's ALREADY BAD with the huge possibility of it getting worse. There is no ****ing need to be hiding anything anymore. The cat is out of the bag. If it was to actually make a better film, it's the opposite of what they may think it looks like at this point. What are they so afraid of now? It actually means they might care. But even if they do, I severely doubt them because again, WB just doesn't understand any of these characters. It's also an executive problem.

I've realized WB is just the wrong place for these characters.

 

[jmc]

It's more than likely got something to do with their investors.

 

[MadVillainy]

I don't know... they pushed BVS back to "make a better movie." My God. Aside from what the hell that could have been, if they intend to not do anything about this and stick with what they already have, that's just another warning sign. They don't know what the **** they're doing.

It's hurtful for WB, because WB doesn't seem to understand these characters either. They'll ask Snyder to make it more fun. Well, Snyder doesn't seem to like fun or his idea of fun isn't the same as what WB may want of him. Fun is such a subjective word, especially for something like this, things will get more confusing.

I just don't see why they can't push this way back and get a replacement and pull their **** together. What, are they worried that it looks bad? That's ********, because it's ALREADY BAD with the huge possibility of it getting worse. There is no ****ing need to be hiding anything anymore. The cat is out of the bag. If it was to actually make a better film, it's the opposite of what they may think it looks like at this point. What are they so afraid of now? It actually means they might care. But even if they do, I severely doubt them because again, WB just doesn't understand any of these characters. It's also an executive problem.

I've realized WB is just the wrong place for these characters.

I agree that they should push it back. I don't think Snyder should direct JL. I didn't even think he shouldve direct BvS after how I felt about MoS.

Im just saying Im not surprised WB is just keeping things moving

 

[Doctor Jones]

It's more than likely got something to do with their investors.

If so, clearly they're disappointed. But of course, if they're just worried about investors, it's just more telling of the true heart of where these movies lie. I get it, movies aren't a charity and it's about money to make more movies, but for God's sake, make a great movie to justify it. They don't seem to get that part. They only get, BRAND = MONEY.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I agree that they should push it back. I don't think Snyder should direct JL. I didn't even think he shouldve direct BvS after how I felt about MoS.

Im just saying Im not surprised WB is just keeping things moving

Oh, me neither. I said last week if anything they'll learn, but not in the way it should be done and what we want.

This whole, "fun" thing is going to get them more in trouble I think. Can't wait for tonal inconsistency now! Woo hoo! See guys, WB is getting it!

 

[BatLobster]

The only thing that gives me a glimmer of hope for JL is Terrio saying the script was lighter in tone, pre-BvS release.

I just think story-wise, they're in a weird place because of Superman. Because now they have to spend screen time explaining his inevitable return. Wait too long to bring him back into the story and people will feel Supes gets the shaft again, bring him back too soon and the death loses all impact (not that it had much to begin with). Creatively it just seems to be a very tricky place to start from. Though I can understand the appeal of having Bruce be the one to put together the JL in Superman's absence.

I'm curious as to what Terrio came up with though, I won't lie. It's the first script that Goyer has had nothing to do with in the franchise (I'm not one of those "blame Goyer for everything" people, just saying). I almost think WB should leak the JL script like they did with the BB script to gauge the fan reaction.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Bottom line, the problem is all they want is money. That's the goal. Money. Short term. Long term. Just "money." It never works with these things. Look at all the reboots and sequels and prequels made with the predominant motivation being money. Doesn't work. That's why you need a Feige. Someone to mediate between the "we just want money" crowd and the "make something substantial" crowd.

 

[MadVillainy]

The only thing that gives me a glimmer of hope for JL is Terrio saying the script was lighter in tone, pre-BvS release.

I just think story-wise, they're in a weird place because of Superman. Because now they have to spend screen time explaining his inevitable return. Wait too long to bring him back into the story and people will feel Supes gets the shaft again, bring him back too soon and the death loses all impact (not that it had much to begin with). Creatively it just seems to be a very tricky place to start from.

I'm curious as to what Terrio came up with though, I won't lie. It's the first script that Goyer has had nothing to do with in the franchise (I'm not one of those "blame Goyer for everything" people, just saying). I almost think WB should leak the JL script like they did with the BB script to gauge the fan reaction.

Agreed that they are in a tricky place
Snyder and co have to:
-Set up the villain
-Assemble the league
-Introduce Flash, Cyborg, and Aquaman
-Give each/most league members some kind of dramatic purpose
-Revive Superman
-Include Lois, Gordon, Mera
-Worry about getting better reception from fans and critics (mostly fans) than they got with BvS

It's already being set up as having too many things to do

 

[kalhawj]

This prove they need someone in the middle like Faige to control directions and quality. It's the only way you don't have someone like a director with too much power.

 

[Tony Gunk]

i dont like this line of thinking.

Yes there are unexpected, unorthodox, etc. casting choices that work, but then there are those that don't work as well.

Anyone who'd seen Ledger act before he was cast would have known the guy was excellent at it. And it's not as though he had some physical anomaly that made him wrong for Joker, like being 5 feet tall or something. I was confident he'd do a great job, and he did.