BvS The Official Zack Snyder Directs Everything Thread - Part 2

[Flint Marko]

pathetic

I fail to see how that's pathetic. This movie really did not sit well with a lot of people, myself included, and after two disappointing entries into the DCEU it's clear that Snyder is the issue.

This especially burned people this time around.

I've never seen such a quick 360 when it comes to hype for a movie. For the longest time we'd heard about WB being unsure of how BvS would be recieved, then we got those overwhelmingly positive tweets which seemingly whiped away all fears ("best superhero movie ever!"), and then the actual reviews came out, confirming what we'd heard in the beginning.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Snyder said the death of Superman was a "cool mechanism" to get Superman out of the way so that Batman can form the JL

Makes sense. He hates the character. Or at the very least doesn't understand him. Superman is to Snyder what Star Trek was to JJ Abrams. A stepping stone to get to Batman/Star Wars.

 

[titansupes]

I've never seen such a quick 360 when it comes to hype for a movie. For the longest time we'd heard about WB being unsure of how BvS would be recieved, then we got those overwhelmingly positive tweets which seemingly whiped away all fears ("best superhero movie ever!"), and then the actual reviews came out, confirming what we'd heard in the beginning.

Speaking specifically about SHH, the build-up to JL is going to be a very different, interesting thing... Taking a straight panning on BvS, compared to MoS being divisive, seems to have woken a lot of people up. And since it's a year and a half wait, compared to the from MoS to BvS... there's not as much time for the wounds to heal (as melodramatic as that sounds) and start trying to re-frame the reception.

 

[Tony Gunk]

Makes sense. He hates the character. Or at the very least doesn't understand him. Superman is to Snyder what Star Trek was to JJ Abrams. A stepping stone to get to Batman/Star Wars.

I thought that too at first, but I'm starting to think it's not that he doesn't understand superman but more that he feels his version is more "awesome" and he just doesn't care about whether anyone has a problem with him tampering with the character

 

[Azrael24]

So I have only seen it once, definitely need to see it again- I can tell you I didn't hate it, but it was a let down for me. Every person who I've personally talked too that has seen it felt the same. Fans who are hardcore Marvel were telling me "it's Batman and Superman, this is an event and deserved way more than that."

I used to be team Snyder because I actually like Man of Steel, but as a director- Snyder doesn't understand how to do the following:

A- create heart in a film
B- Tie the film together for a central theme that is easily communicated to the audience
C- Make sunshine and sunlight...everything looks like damn Seattle
D- Special effects always look 'flat' due to his excessive filters or post work. Example...the Batmobile chase scene was very very flat..no depth. The scene in Batman Begins had depth. Another example- Superman's rescues, even when flying..looked too much like a painting, whereas Avatar looked like you were there.
F- most important, he struggles how to actually direct out a scene and get full emotion. He is very abstract and honestly, that can get old.

I like Snyder a lot and think his style fits some things, but Justice League deserves better. I actually hope WB reigns him in or cuts him for part 2...just please don't butcher part 1. Sheesh

EDIT: The more I think about it, it's Snyder's filters he has great VFX supervisors on his films, but he still struggles. He needs to stop the desaturation, pop some color, make his black..well...black and increase the contrast and all some of this stuff looks better.

Also- he gets only SOME of Superman. He's trying to be so philosophical he's missing the fact that it would be FUN to have those powers and he isn't moody. I swear if his Superman had just a tinge of what the Supergirl tv show has in terms of 'heroic feel' he would be 1000x times better. She seems 'super' he seems 'angsty'. Can we please get over the inner turmoil s*** from the heroes for just a second? Maybe if there was an ACTUAL threatening plot unfolding we wouldn't have to do that. Avengers does it, but not on the level of Snyder. Feel like I'm watching EMO DC. P*sses me off man.

 

[hafizbat]

“We had a version that we talked about where [Superman] just—this isn’t it, but where he got frozen and shot into space or something, so he’s kinda gone. Because one of the big things I wanted to make sure of was that as we went into Justice League, Bruce Wayne was the one who was gathering the Justice League. I thought it was really important to have Bruce Wayne be the samurai who goes and finds the other samurai, that to me was important. And with Superman around it’s kinda hard, because Superman’s Superman so it’s kinda hard for Bruce to be like, ‘Yeah I wanna put a Justice League together’. It’s like, ‘Okay, but maybe Superman should be doing that. You’re just a guy. You’re a cool guy, don’t get me wrong, but you’re just a guy.’”

I cannot believe THIS is the guy WB/DC handed the key to the DC universe to.

 

[titansupes]

Makes sense. He hates the character. Or at the very least doesn't understand him. Superman is to Snyder what Star Trek was to JJ Abrams. A stepping stone to get to Batman/Star Wars.

I thought that too at first, but I'm starting to think it's not that he doesn't understand superman but more that he feels his version is more "awesome" and he just doesn't care about whether anyone has a problem with him tampering with the character

I think/desperately hope it's not because he hates him (though he certainly doesn't understand him)... more about his sensibility being arrested. To explain...

It's like... I've been a Superman/Batman devotee since I was about three years old, thanks to the movies/shows/cartoons. Always loved them. But, I never got into the comics, except for having an issue here and there, and not really understanding them because of the serialized/heavy continuity nature. I had a broad approach to the ins-and-outs of it all though, thanks to the various encyclopedias DC/Marvel released. What eventually got me into comics whole hog, at the age of 13/14, was seeing a preview image of Jim Lee Superman, with the grim look and angry red eyes against a black background. The accompanying interview talked about the upcoming story, about Superman not knowing what to do in the modern world, how he's a tragic messiah etc. All that looked and sounded bad ass to my teenage brain. It was a "mature" take.

The point? I grew out of that phase, just a few years later... and I really don't think Snyder ever has. As someone said on the Batboards a few months ago-- Snyder's a "Man-teen". I really think that sums it up.

If only these movies had been released between about '03-'06. I'd probably have eaten them the **** up.

 

[Shikamaru]

Makes sense. He hates the character. Or at the very least doesn't understand him. Superman is to Snyder what Star Trek was to JJ Abrams. A stepping stone to get to Batman/Star Wars.

Even that would still give him too much credit. He's a fan of Miller's fascist version of Batman primarily, and potentially a fan of Batman after that. Either way, there's no way people can say this film had just as much passion going into it as TFA did.

 

[STARMAN]

I find myself enduring Snyder's films rather than enjoying them.

 

[lukebrodyg]

A few things....

Snyder is in the driver's seat so he should get most of the blame or praise. However, Deborah, Goyer, Chris T. and yes NOLAN all played a part in this story.

To remove Snyder would be counterproductive and probably result in an even worse scenario unless they completely rebooted everything.

The smartest thing to do here is for them all to reason with and listen to the founded (not overblown) criticisms and address them with script and story changes, etc. while most of it is still under wraps.

This movie will likely make 800m + for WB. Snyder and Co. aren't going anywhere.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Snyder said the death of Superman was a "cool mechanism" to get Superman out of the way so that Batman can form the JL

 

[Tony Gunk]

Even if they reign him in and stop him making terrible decisions, he still can't tell a story in a particularly effective way so what's the point?

WB next meeting with him should go like this

"Zack the film has made a lot of money but ultimately it's a very divisive film and we have higher standards for these characters. It's not enough just to storm the box office on opening weekend. For these reasons we are removing you from the Justice League films and you won't be involved in any of the rest of the DCEU either. Your WB studio pass will be collected at the door and should you fail to vacate the premises in the next 5 minutes you will be arrested for trespassing"

 

[LamboMan]

Snyder said the death of Superman was a "cool mechanism" to get Superman out of the way so that Batman can form the JL

He didn't exactly say that IIRC. Also you're missing the part where says that he wanted Superman to die so he could go through this 'crucible' where he experiences the most human thing of all, mortality.

He thinks that will make Supes understand humanity better and also humanise him more.

It wasn't about getting him out of the way so Batman could go form the Justice League. It was about the fact that Superman could go look for these people in 5 minutes whereas with Batman it will be more of a harder challenge and a more interesting story (he's a samurai going to find and band together the other samurai while the master is away).

Plus they are forming the JL in Superman's memory and since they need to 'cos he's not around to protect them anymore.

 

[lukebrodyg]

Even if they reign him in and stop him making terrible decisions, he still can't tell a story in a particularly effective way so what's the point?

Not everyone agrees here.

If you look at his movies, most are received well enough to suggest he can tell a story. It's just that MOS and know BVS are so polarizing it now seems everyone thinks he's a hack.

 

[lukebrodyg]

He didn't exactly say that IIRC. Also you're missing the part where says that he wanted Superman to die so he could go through this 'crucible' where he experiences the most human thing of all, mortality.

He thinks that will make Supes understand humanity better and also humanise him more.

It wasn't about getting him out of the way so Batman could go form the Justice League. It was about the fact that Superman could go look for these people in 5 minutes whereas with Batman it will be more of a harder challenge and a more interesting story (he's a samurai going to find an band together the other samurai while the master is away).

Plus they are forming the JL in Superman's memory and since they need to 'cos he's not around to protect them anymore.

Such valid points. It's frustrating that one snippet is taken out of context and automatically Snyder hates Superman...

 

[brandeezy89]

Even if they reign him in and stop him making terrible decisions, he still can't tell a story in a particularly effective way so what's the point?

WB next meeting with him should go like this

"Zack the film has made a lot of money but ultimately it's a very divisive film and we have higher standards for these characters. It's not enough just to storm the box office on opening weekend. For these reasons we are removing you from the Justice League films and you won't be involved in any of the rest of the DCEU either. Your WB studio pass will be collected at the door and fail to vacate the premises in the next 5 minutes you will be arrested for trespassing"

Lol doubt they would do that since they gave him the Aston in the movie and a warehouse on the lot. If anything the producers will be co-directing with Synder and he won't have any say. If I were WB I would hire the tech crew to go on the internet, find every complaint about the film, write it on that big giant board and figure out how to fix each problem. Apply that to JL, the DCEU and you're good

 

[Micromind]

I find myself enduring Snyder's films rather than enjoying them.

Ha !

This is how most of the DC fans (not just Superman fans.. ) feel as well.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Even that would still give him too much credit. He's a fan of Miller's fascist version of Batman primarily, and potentially a fan of Batman after that. Either way, there's no way people can say this film had just as much passion going into it as TFA did.

They believed the hype that was fed to them. It's understandable, it was great hype. WB marketing killed it. But when all is said and done Snyder acted like this

And is looking like this

Maybe a bit more humility over the past three years ala Abrams with TFA would have helped his image.

 

[DeadPresident]

Ha !

This is how most of the DC fans (not just Superman fans.. ) feel as well.

You're confusing most with at maximum half.

 

[lukebrodyg]

They believed the hype that was fed to them. It's understandable, it was great hype. WB marketing killed it. But when all is said and done Snyder acted like this

And is looking like this

Maybe a bit more humility over the past three years ala Abrams with TFA would have helped his image.

I just think that's an unfair criticism. If anything, I'm glad he had the brash to speak his mind when constantly criticized.

I've never senses pride in Snyder. Only enthusiasm which I appreciate.

I say that admitting he made mistakes in MOS and BVS.

 

[Poni_Boy]

I just think that's an unfair criticism. If anything, I'm glad he had the brash to speak his mind when constantly criticized.

I've never senses pride in Snyder. Only enthusiasm which I appreciate.

I say that admitting he made mistakes in MOS and BVS.

It's not pride, it's arrogance. Pure, undiluted arrogance. Fans flocking at him like he's the second coming made him more arrogant. Just look at all his recent quotes about the movie. He genuinely feels above the subject matter, like his inclusion alone elevates it to being "grown up."

 

[lukebrodyg]

It's not pride, it's arrogance. Pure, undiluted arrogance. Fans flocking at him like he's the second coming made him more arrogant. Just look at all his recent quotes about the movie. He genuinely feels above the subject matter, like his inclusion alone elevates it to being "grown up."

I've listened to him and read most of what he's said and I never got that impression. Perhaps that just me though.

 

[DA_Champion]

A few things....

Snyder is in the driver's seat so he should get most of the blame or praise. However, Deborah, Goyer, Chris T. and yes NOLAN all played a part in this story.

To remove Snyder would be counterproductive and probably result in an even worse scenario unless they completely rebooted everything.

The smartest thing to do here is for them all to reason with and listen to the founded (not overblown) criticisms and address them with script and story changes, etc. while most of it is still under wraps.

This movie will likely make 800m + for WB. Snyder and Co. aren't going anywhere.

Really?

What's Nolan's contribution to BvS?

I think it's the following:

1) He collected a paycheck, increasing the amount of money this film needs to gross to be successful;
2) He probably lobbied Christian Bale to say "No";

 

[LamboMan]

Such valid points. It's frustrating that one snippet is taken out of context and automatically Snyder hates Superman...

Thanks! Yeah, I don't know why people think Snyder hates Superman. Maybe the forget that this is Snyder's vision like Bale's Batman was Nolan's.

Even though I never liked Nolan's Batman (except for in BB) I never thought that Nolan hated Batman. He definitely wasn't the Batman from the comics ("Anyone can be Batman" lol no pls) but I never thought that Nolan was purposely reducing Batman to a weak schmuck for kicks.

That was his version of Batman and I can respect what he was trying to do with it even though I didn't agree with it.

Same with this Superman. I loved MOS and I was hoping to see some real character development in this movie, but we hardly got any and I still don't think that means Snyder hates Superman. It may not be the Superman we all want but it's Snyder's vision for Superman and I can respect that just as I respected Nolan's vision.

Snyder has continually stated that he loves Superman and that all the stories will revolve around him and in BVS it did revolve around Superman, maybe not in the way everyone would have liked but still Superman was the main story focus, even if Batman got more screen time.

Plus if anything we should blame the writers like Chris Terrio and David Goyer. Before the movie came out, everyone was lauding Chris Terrio and saying that he will deliver and perfect script and that Snyder will have a great script to work with and now that it is out and they don't like what they see, all the blame is going back on Snyder.

It's pretty funny. If they had made the perfect BVS movie, people would have been praising Chris to the skies and now that it is less than perfect, they all blame Snyder and forget all the other people involved in this project.

No matter what, Snyder loses since people will never drop their notions and hate for him.

 

[-Arya-]

Snyder is still ultimately the director and mostly responsible for the product. After two badly reviewed films, it should be obvious who to point fingers at.