The Polygamy Scandal

[Marx]

It is normal to some. There is a reason why people still live like that,they think things are now corrupt so they go back to a more simple life style. It's not just the 1800's they dress and act like people from 1920's and before.

That culture is based on the men manipulating the women and children in the name of God. I just saw another interview with some of the women from the sect. (This was different from Larry King Live.) These women flat out said that they listen and give in to these men because they are led to believe that that is the only way to get into the highest levels of Heaven. These men, the women said, will be "kings in Heaven and they are the jewels in their crown." (Hence the reason for the coloring of their dresses.) But they also conceded that they believe they will only get into Heaven if the men invite them in. That's not normal. It's sick, twisted, and ridiculous. Not to mention, incredibly sad Arkady.

 

[danoyse]

It is normal to some. There is a reason why people still live like that,they think things are now corrupt so they go back to a more simple life style. It's not just the 1800's they dress and act like people from 1920's and before.

It's not as simple as that. These girls are being raised to believe that everything outside the walls they live in is corrupt and eternal damnation will befall them if they cut their hair or wear pants or even think of leaving. They're taught that it's perfectly fine to be married and having babies at 14.

It's even difficult to put the children in foster care because they've been taught to fear everything about the outside world that putting them in a regular home could be a disaster.

Listening to them on TV, it's like listening to a first-grade class reciting the alphabet. They don't understand anything. That's not a lifestyle, that's pure manipulation, and it's terrible abuse.

 

[The Major]

Again, I thought sexually molesting children was illegal as well. Why hasn't the federal government raided every Catholic church in the country to hunt down and capture those priests who have sexually abused their altar boys? Why wasn't Pope Benedict XVI arrested and charged with hundreds of counts of endangering the welfare of a child, when he told the Catholic church to remain silent on the sexual abuse scandal back when he was working under John Paul II?

The Mormons are freaky and weird because a few of them like multiple wives. But, hey, the Catholics have tens of millions of followers worldwide, so I guess its acceptable.

The Pope probably has diplomatic immunity, The Vatican has its own military, I'm sure it's a rich nation on top of that and America is full of Catholics.

 

[Kelly]

I'm sitting here watching Larry King Live, as I often do, and they are disussing the polygamy scandal. As you may or may not know, a few hundred children have been removed from a polygamy compound due to abuse accusations in Texas and the state is currently seeking custody of those children.

I feel so bad for all of the kids involved in this mess. Watching this group of women from the sect speak on tv...they are dressed like they live in the 1800's, are very soft spoken, and generally seem brainwashed, spacey, and withdrawn. They continue to avoid questions like "where is your husband" and keep repeating "our focus is on the children." I can't imagine what this situation has brought upon all involved, but this isn't right. I've heard rumors about there only being five husbands for the whole sect, which blows my mind. I just can't believe something like this hasn't been stopped before now. There are laws against polygamy, yet all of these "adults" continued on as nothing was wrong.

My only hope is that this situation has brought a renewed awareness and will greatly strengthen the laws (or create new ones) so that something like this will never happen again. It may be a fool's hope, but this situation is ridicuous!

I just don't understand how people can think this is normal!?!?!?!

Do you have an idea of what changes you would like made? Or what new laws you would like set in place?

 

[Marx]

Do you have an idea of what changes you would like made? Or what new laws you would like set in place?

I'm not really sure Kel. Something needs to be done though. Polygamy is illegal. It should be enforced, for starters. These men marry children (against their will) at ages as young as 13, who then become pregnant. It's disgusting. The only problem with filing rape charges against these idiots is that all of these women are so brainwashed that they lie to authorities. They cover for these men instead.

 

[Kelly]

I'm not really sure Kel. Something needs to be done though. Polygamy is illegal. It should be enforced, for starters. These men marry children (against their will) at ages as young as 13, who then become pregnant. It's disgusting. The only problem with filing rape charges against these idiots is that all of these women are so brainwashed that they lie to authorities. They cover for these men instead.

That is definitely a start.....


Not necessarily, if the girl is under the age of 18, doesn't matter if she said ok, or not.....its rape. The problem with these types of cases is, who raped who.......just like, what child belongs to what mom.........

 

[The Major]

I'm not really sure Kel. Something needs to be done though. Polygamy is illegal. It should be enforced, for starters. These men marry children (against their will) at ages as young as 13, who then become pregnant. It's disgusting. The only problem with filing rape charges against these idiots is that all of these women are so brainwashed that they lie to authorities. They cover for these men instead.

What exactly does the government do with brainwashed cases?

Could they legally rehabiliate the women who are brainwashed?

If they could manage to do this they'd get the women out of the cult's control at least for a little while and the men would have no choice but to speak up.

 

[The Senator]

I'm not really sure Kel. Something needs to be done though. Polygamy is illegal. It should be enforced, for starters.

I disagree. As long as the relationship is consensual, I see nothing wrong with it. They should enforce age limits on marriage instead.

These men marry children (against their will) at ages as young as 13, who then become pregnant. It's disgusting. The only problem with filing rape charges against these idiots is that all of these women are so brainwashed that they lie to authorities. They cover for these men instead.

How can you charge them with rape, though? They consent to maintaining a sexual relationship with these men, unfortunately. And while we're at it, what's to say all those men are conspiring to subdue these women? Not all of them are brainwashing these girls... some of these men have been brainwashed themselves...

 

[Marx]

That is definitely a start.....


Not necessarily, if the girl is under the age of 18, doesn't matter if she said ok, or not.....its rape. The problem with these types of cases is, who raped who.......just like, what child belongs to what mom.........

I completely understand and agree with that. What I'm saying though, is that regardless of who it is, these women deny anything and everything. (Except for the rare few, like the girl who called the authorities this time.)

 

[Marx]

I disagree. As long as the relationship is consensual, I see nothing wrong with it. They should enforce age limits on marriage instead.



How can you charge them with rape, though? They consent to maintaining a sexual relationship with these men, unfortunately. And while we're at it, what's to say all them men are conspiring to subdue these women? Not all of them are brainwashing these girls... some of these men have been brainwashed themselves...

Our law states that anyone underage, whether there is consent or not, is rape.

 

[Kelly]

What exactly does the government do with brainwashed cases?

Could they legally rehabiliate someone who was brainwashed by arresting them?

If they could manage to do this they'd get the women out of the cult's control at least for a little while and the men would have no choice but to speak up.

As far as the adult women are concerned, they could probably arrest them for withholding evidence, or screwing up the investigation.......but in this case.....there is so damn many of them, its a ridiculous predicament. The girls and boys under 18, were not sent back.....that are in the custody of the state right now.........I have a feeling that is where the states case will be built. They won't build one with the adult women. They will build it with the children, once they get them into homes where they have a chance to breath on their own.......and then of course it will be built by the testimony of those that have left the cult as well.

 

[The Major]

I disagree. As long as the relationship is consensual, I see nothing wrong with it. They should enforce age limits on marriage instead.



How can you charge them with rape, though? They consent to maintaining a sexual relationship with these men, unfortunately. And while we're at it, what's to say all those men are conspiring to subdue these women? Not all of them are brainwashing these girls... some of these men have been brainwashed themselves...

I don't think it's as simple as that. The girls are conditioned to consent form birth. It's the ultimate guilt trip. Marry him or you will go to hell.

Any girl under the age of 16 or 17, forgot Texas's legal age, is instant statutory rape by law.

Plus the men can't marry more then one girl anyway. That's bigamy which they can be charged with.

 

[The Major]

I disagree. As long as the relationship is consensual, I see nothing wrong with it. They should enforce age limits on marriage instead.

I don't think it's as simple as that. The girls are conditioned to consent form birth. It's the ultimate guilt trip. Marry him or you will go to hell.

How can you charge them with rape, though? They consent to maintaining a sexual relationship with these men, unfortunately. And while we're at it, what's to say all those men are conspiring to subdue these women? Not all of them are brainwashing these girls... some of these men have been brainwashed themselves...

Any girl under the age of 16 or 17, forgot Texas's legal age, is instant statutory rape by law.

Plus the men can't marry more then one girl anyway. That's bigamy which they can be charged with.

 

[The Senator]

Our law states that anyone underage, whether there is consent or not, is rape.

Yeah but there have been cases where the punishment has been minimized... this may very well be a similar case... after all, it is a part of their religion...

 

[The Major]

As far as the adult women are concerned, they could probably arrest them for withholding evidence, or screwing up the investigation.......but in this case.....there is so damn many of them, its a ridiculous predicament. The girls and boys under 18, were not sent back.....that are in the custody of the state right now.........I have a feeling that is where the states case will be built. They won't build one with the adult women. They will build it with the children, once they get them into homes where they have a chance to breath on their own.......and then of course it will be built by the testimony of those that have left the cult as well.

Okay.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[The Major]

Yeah but there have been cases where the punishment has been minimized... this may very well be a similar case... after all, it is a part of their religion...

Rape is still rape, religion or not.

I really hope that defense doesn't work.

 

[Kelly]

Yeah but there have been cases where the punishment has been minimized... this may very well be a similar case... after all, it is a part of their religion...

I don't believe this will fall under religious freedom.......


1. Allowing them to educate their children, etc......can fall under religious freedom...

2. Living on their own land, and the tax laws that all of that falls under.....can fall under religions.....etc....

3. Having sex with a 14 year old, and marrying more than one woman.....will not fall under religious freedoms.....

 

[Marx]

Yeah but there have been cases where the punishment has been minimized... this may very well be a similar case... after all, it is a part of their religion...

I don't believe that that is taken into consideration. Nor should it be, in my opinion. That could set a ridiculous precedent.

 

[The Senator]

I don't think it's as simple as that. The girls are conditioned to consent form birth. It's the ultimate guilt trip. Marry him or you will go to hell.

And how do you charge someone when that's the case? Most of these people are under the impression that it's right because some nutjob told them it is. And again, there are some men who are brainwashed themselves... there were over 500 people on that compound, if I remember correctly... tell me this hasn't been experienced on both sides...

Any girl under the age of 16 or 17, forgot Texas's legal age, is instant statutory rape by law.

Again, there have been cases where this has not been upheld... or at least, the punishment is minimal... this would tough to do because you have to prove these men haven't been brainwashed themselves... that they are manipulating these girls in the process...

Plus the men can't marry more then one girl anyway. That's bigamy which they can be charged with.

Think about that for a second... these compounds have their own laws... what's to say their own laws don't trump Texas's laws? Yeah, Texas's laws are the laws which will ultimately prevail, but what's to say they didn't live under their own set of laws on this compound? Polygamy still existed there... whether it was legal under Texas law or not...

 

[The Senator]

Rape is still rape, religion or not.

I really hope that defense doesn't work.

Well, it has worked in the past, not just on religious cases but on other cases as well... so who knows...

 

[Marx]

Well, it has worked in the past, not just on religious cases but on other cases as well... so who knows...

But it shouldn't. Anyone could claim that their actions are the result of God's word. Rape, murder, theft, etc.

 

[The Senator]

I don't believe that that is taken into consideration. Nor should it be, in my opinion. That could set a ridiculous precedent.

Yeah, because the government should control how people live their consensual sex lives...

little girls shouldn't be raped or forced into a relationship. But you're saying their religion doesn't matter, that polygamy is a vile disgusting thing, when in fact people should have as much right to enter a consensual relationship as long as they aren't harming anyone in the process... should these girls have been forced into a relationship?... no... but I don't think all of them were forced, I don't think all the men are guilty of being manipulators... there has to be a few who were brainwashed themselves... maybe the government should stop discriminating based on sexual preference?

 

[Marx]

Yeah, because the government should control how people live their consensual sex lives...

little girls shouldn't be raped or forced into a relationship. But you're saying their religion doesn't matter, that polygamy is a vile disgusting thing, when in fact people should have as much right to enter a consensual relationship as long as they aren't harming anyone in the process... should these girls have been forced into a relationship?... no... but I don't think all of them were forced, I don't think all the men are guilty of being manipulators... there has to be a few who were brainwashed themselves... maybe the government should stop discriminating based on sexual preference?

I'm not talking about sexual preference. (Although I am a strong advocate for equal rights.) What I am saying is that under the age of 18, whether there is consent or not, by law it is statutory rape. That's just the way it is. Religion or not.

 

[Kelly]

And how do you charge someone when that's the case? Most of these people are under the impression that it's right because some nutjob told them it is. And again, there are some men who are brainwashed themselves... there were over 500 people on that compound, if I remember correctly... tell me this hasn't been experienced on both sides...




Again, there have been cases where this has not been upheld... or at least, the punishment is minimal... this would tough to do because you have to prove these men haven't been brainwashed themselves... that they are manipulating these girls in the process...



Think about that for a second... these compounds have their own laws... what's to say their own laws don't trump Texas's laws? Yeah, Texas's laws are the laws which will ultimately prevail, but what's to say they didn't live under their own set of laws on this compound? Polygamy still existed there... whether it was legal under Texas law or not...

It would not fall under Texas law, it would fall under Federal Law, Federal lawyers are present as well in this case.......I could probably venture to say that in some of these cases, that the case to prove that some of these children have been taken over state lines, and at least one parent did not agree could be brought out. That is a whole other problem for this compound. Some of these children were left behind by their mothers.....and the mothers have been trying to get them out. I could also probably venture to say that none of these women that left legally gave up custody of their children, therefore there could be kidnapping charges as well.

This whole thing is crazy.......

 

[The Major]

And how do you charge someone when that's the case? Most of these people are under the impression that it's right because some nutjob told them it is. And again, there are some men who are brainwashed themselves... there were over 500 people on that compound, if I remember correctly... tell me this hasn't been experienced on both sides...

It will be incredibly difficult to figure the details out.

Still, and this is just my opinion, anyone who breaks the law even while brainwashed must face punishment for that.

Then again, they could always go for the insanity defense. Maybe that's the best scenerio, these people clearly need some psychiatric help.

I don't think they'd like being sent to mental asylums, though.

Again, there have been cases where this has not been upheld... or at least, the punishment is minimal... this would tough to do because you have to prove these men haven't been brainwashed themselves... that they are manipulating these girls in the process...

That's true.

Think about that for a second... these compounds have their own laws... what's to say their own laws don't trump Texas's laws? Yeah, Texas's laws are the laws which will ultimately prevail, but what's to say they didn't live under their own set of laws on this compound? Polygamy still existed there... whether it was legal under Texas law or not...

I'd think a state's laws would trump that.

These people still live on American soil, they have no legitimate soverignty to my knowledge, official ambassadors or any other legal rights country's have.

I wouldn't be surprised if your right about the compound having its own laws. They might even consider themselves citizens of some other nation but that shouldn't be enough to legally block Texas from doing anything.