The Polygamy Scandal

[Marx]

I'd think a state's laws would trump that.

These people still live on American soil, they have no legitimate soverignty to my knowledge, official ambassadors or any other legal rights country's have.

I wouldn't be surprised if your right about the compound having its own laws. They might even consider themselves citizens of some other nation but that shouldn't be enough to legally block Texas from doing anything.

These compounds are on American soil and fall under American law.

 

[danoyse]

I'm not talking about sexual preference. (Although I am a strong advocate for equal rights.) What I am saying is that under the age of 18, whether there is consent or not, by law it is statutory rape. That's just the way it is. Religion or not.

Exactly. Being brainwashed to believe that's OK to marry at 14 doesn't make it consensual.

The problem with this sect isn't the polygamy. If it's part of their religion, and it's between consenting adults, that's fine. But as citizens of this country, where anyone under 18 is still legally a child, that's not OK.

And they bloody well know it...just watch how evasive they are whenever they're asked the question. If this really was an OK aspect of their religion, they would answer the question, not change the subject every time it's asked.

I don't see where any of them have had a choice in the marriage issue. It seems to be this or eternal damnation, as they've been led to believe.

 

[Marx]

Exactly. Being brainwashed to believe that's OK to marry at 14 doesn't make it consensual.

The problem with this sect isn't the polygamy. If it's part of their religion, and it's between consenting adults, that's fine. But as citizens of this country, where anyone under 18 is still legally a child, that's not OK.

And they bloody well know it...just watch how evasive they are whenever they're asked the question. If this really was an OK aspect of their religion, they would answer the question, not change the subject every time it's asked.

I don't see where any of them have had a choice in the marriage issue. It seems to be this or eternal damnation, as they've been led to believe.

Exactly Danoyse. Pretty much any question that has been asked (that I've seen) is always answered with the spacey glazed over look and tone of "Our...focus...is...on...the...children."

 

[The Senator]

Exactly. Being brainwashed to believe that's OK to marry at 14 doesn't make it consensual.

What if some of it isn't brainwashing? What if some of it actually is consensual, as I imagine it would be?

The problem with this sect isn't the polygamy. If it's part of their religion, and it's between consenting adults, that's fine. But as citizens of this country, where anyone under 18 is still legally a child, that's not OK.

I agree with you. In cases of rape, these children should not be subjected to it. The problem is differentiating who was brainwashed and who wasn't.

And they bloody well know it...just watch how evasive they are whenever they're asked the question. If this really was an OK aspect of their religion, they would answer the question, not change the subject every time it's asked.

I don't understand how it can be evasive when some of these men have been brainwashed into thinking these practices are alright. How do you figure out who is doing the brainwashing and who was brainwashed in the first place?

I don't see where any of them have had a choice in the marriage issue. It seems to be this or eternal damnation, as they've been led to believe.

You have to prove that in a court of law... were some of these people brainwashed, or were they acting in a consensual manner?... that's going to be difficult to peg, since not all of these folks were brainwashed in the first place... that's a real problem considering you have 500 people being investigated...

 

[Marx]

You have to prove that in a court of law... were some of these people brainwashed, or were they acting in a consensual manner?... that's going to be difficult to peg, since not all of these folks were brainwashed in the first place... that's a real problem considering you have 500 people being investigated...

The massive numbers in this case will be hard to navigate through, that is for sure Jman. It's going to take quite a while.

 

[The Senator]

It will be incredibly difficult to figure the details out.

Still, and this is just my opinion, anyone who breaks the law even while brainwashed must face punishment for that.

Then again, they could always go for the insanity defense. Maybe that's the best scenerio, these people clearly need some psychiatric help.

I don't think they'd like being sent to mental asylums, though.

The big problem isn't that they broke the laws... which they did... it's proving they actually knew they were breaking the laws...

Psychiatric issues such as these are hard to deal with in a criminal court...

I'd think a state's laws would trump that.

These people still live on American soil, they have no legitimate soverignty to my knowledge, official ambassadors or any other legal rights country's have.

I wouldn't be surprised if your right about the compound having its own laws. They might even consider themselves citizens of some other nation but that shouldn't be enough to legally block Texas from doing anything.

I didn't say they shouldn't charged under Texas or federal law... I'm not saying they have a right to have their own laws, either... I'm saying it's hard to figure out who knew they violating law and who didn't... which again, is a psychiatric case which needs to be tried on a case-by-case basis...

 

[The Major]

Jman:

Court appointed psychologists would be able to discover whose brainwashed and those who aren't.

 

[Kelly]

The big problem isn't that they broke the laws... which they did... it's proving they actually knew they were breaking the laws...

Psychiatric issues such as these are hard to deal with in a criminal court...






I didn't say they shouldn't charged under Texas or federal law... I'm not saying they have a right to have their own laws, either... I'm saying it's hard to figure out who knew they violating law and who didn't... which again, is a psychiatric case which needs to be tried on a case-by-case basis...

They are going to go for an insanity plea....???? what case could they use as precedence...

 

[The Senator]

They are going to go for an insanity plea....???? what case could they use as precedence...

What if this is a case without precedence... it could very well set a precedent if the attorneys decide to take this far enough...

 

[The Senator]

Jman:

Court appointed psychologists would be able to discover whose brainwashed and those who aren't.

Which is why it should be tried on a case-by-case basis... not en masse as many feel it should...

 

[Marx]

What if this is a case without precedence... it could very well set a precedent if the attorneys decide to take this far enough...

Still, psychologist's can differentiate.

 

[The Major]

The big problem isn't that they broke the laws... which they did... it's proving they actually knew they were breaking the laws...

Psychiatric issues such as these are hard to deal with in a criminal court...

That's true.

I didn't say they shouldn't charged under Texas or federal law... I'm not saying they have a right to have their own laws, either... I'm saying it's hard to figure out who knew they violating law and who didn't...

Okay.

which again, is a psychiatric case which needs to be tried on a case-by-case basis...

Yeah, this going to take a long time to process in the court.

 

[Marx]

Which is why it should be tried on a case-by-case basis... not en masse as many feel it should...

I personally don't see how it could be tried en masse...but at the same time, going individually (with over 400 children) would be a massive undertaking.

 

[The Major]

Which is why it should be tried on a case-by-case basis... not en masse as many feel it should...

I think they're doing that.

 

[Kelly]

They are bringing in judges from other areas to help with all of the cases.....

 

[The Senator]

I personally don't see how it could be tried en masse...but at the same time, going individually (with over 400 children) would be a massive undertaking.

Regardless of how massive an undertaking it is, that's how it should be tried if we want to ensure fairness in our judicial system.

I'm glad to see that's how it may happen, but from what I've read, it's not entirely certain at this point.

 

[Marx]

Regardless of how massive an undertaking it is, that's how it should be tried if we want to ensure fairness in our judicial system.

I'm glad to see that's how it may happen, but from what I've read, it's not entirely certain at this point.

Last I heard no one was sure how to proceed. I agree though, massive undertaking or not, it will be done.

 

[Kelly]

Last I heard no one was sure how to proceed. I agree though, massive undertaking or not, it will be done.

Whatever they do, it has to be done within 14 days......that is the law here in Texas.....some of these children were removed on April 7th, which means they have a week to prove that these children should have been removed, why and the judge/judges will then make the decision that the state keeps the kids, or they go back to the compound. If a child has a mother who is 13, that won't be a problem for the judge,.....but there is no law that states a specific age of where a child can legally make their own decisions. This will actually be up to the lawyer. The lawyer has to make the call of whether or not the child can think for him or herself. The reason this is so important is because many of these children have no idea that what was happening to them was indeed, abuse. They think it was a simple way of life, and that all children did what did.

In their (CPS) favor is the fact that under Texas law, a parent can't consent to the marriage of a child under age 16, and Texas does not recognize the common-law marriages of children under age 18. The reason this is important is because many of the children were actually, not legally married, they called it a "spiritual marriage".


We also have the Permanent Judicial Commission for Children, Youth & Families, which will oversee the entire proceedings. The Texas Supreme Court oversees this commission.....so things will be on the up and up on all fronts.....

 

[Marx]

Whatever they do, it has to be done within 14 days......that is the law here in Texas.....some of these children were removed on April 7th, which means they have a week to prove that these children should have been removed, why and the judge/judges will then make the decision that the state keeps the kids, or they go back to the compound. If a child has a mother who is 13, that won't be a problem for the judge,.....but there is no law that states a specific age of where a child can legally make their own decisions. This will actually be up to the lawyer. The lawyer has to make the call of whether or not the child can think for him or herself. The reason this is so important is because many of these children have no idea that what was happening to them was indeed, abuse. They think it was a simple way of life, and that all children did what did.

In their (CPS) favor is the fact that under Texas law, a parent can't consent to the marriage of a child under age 16, and Texas does not recognize the common-law marriages of children under age 18. The reason this is important is because many of the children were actually, not legally married, they called it a "spiritual marriage".


We also have the Permanent Judicial Commission for Children, Youth & Families, which will oversee the entire proceedings. The Texas Supreme Court oversees this commission.....so things will be on the up and up on all fronts.....

That's good to know!

 

[Superman]

IMO Every one of them should be put in jail.

 

[Morg]

IMO Every one of them should be put in jail.

Not the kids, they didn't know better thanks to the idiots adults brainwashing them

 

[The Senator]

IMO Every one of them should be put in jail.

Why?

 

[Marx]

IMO Every one of them should be put in jail.

I don't think the children should be punished for the mistakes of the sect "adults." Other than that, I agree with you Supe.

 

[Superman]

Well of course not the kids. I meant the adults should be put in jail.

 

[Marx]

Well of course not the kids. I meant the adults should be put in jail.

For some reason I couldn't help but think about the scene in "Sweeney Tood" when Judge Turpin sentences the little boy to "death by hanging." I didn't think you meant the children, but these "adults" are nutjobs!